[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 280

On April 24 2013 01:11 Geo.Rion wrote:

There is a theory, that Reed was actually a powerful warg himself, and the 3 kingsguard would have killed them, beating the odds, we know it came down to 2v1, and Ned injured to make it worse, so some people speculate that Reed tried to take over Dayne's body (like Bran could actually hop into Hodor )and gave Ned the opening to slay him, and he's been severly damaged in the process, that's why we do not see him anymore around, even when his old friend is in dire need, and every lord from the North marches with Robb

On April 24 2013 20:57 risk.nuke wrote:

Do you have a source for when we get to know it came down to 2v1?

Loras Tyrell is the third son in the tv-show. Garlan and Willas haven't been introduced yet, it doesn't mean they won't play bigger parts later. The show is just cutting down on introducing characters.

About Rhaegar, Aerys and the Rebellion.
Rhaegar wasn't selfish, quite the opposite. He's a fanatic in the sense that he believed his son to be the Prince who was promised and believed he needed three children. He likely loved Lyanna but ultimately he searched for another wife because Elia was to weak to have another child. There is also something about his third child needing to be a child of ice (north-stark).

"Abducting" Lyanna were not the cause of the Rebellion. While Aerys was loosing popularity amongst the lords Rheagar was popular amongst near everyone. They wouldn't rebel and start a civil war for breaking a marrige pact. It mostly affected Robert who was promised to Lyanna and Brandon who was known for being a hothead.

What sparked the rebellion was Aerys murdering Brandon and Rickard Stark without trial. Then demanding the heads of Robert and Ned. It was Jon Arryn who refused and started the Rebellion.

On April 24 2013 23:26 Geo.Rion wrote:

Maybe it wasnt correct to say we know, i think i read a theoretical reconstruction of the fight, and that stuck in my head. That being said, it should have come down to 2v1, since we know all Ned's companions, but Howland, died, and Ned said something along the line " Arthur Dayne was the best knight blabla, and he would have killed me if it wasnt for Howland Reed". I think he tells this to one of his children. So it stands to reason that Dayne was the last man standing (as expected since he was the best fighter), and we have 2 survievors, so at some point it must have been 2v1.

Also, from a Westeros.org comment fragment>
"This is based on: (1) Howland Reed is not a fighter. He’s the greatest crannogman sorcerer of this generation and has spent many years on the Isle of Faces levelling up. Think lvl 70 animist. (2) Howland is a warg. His two children (none of which are wargs) sure know a lot about warging. (3) Wargs can slip into other people and puppeteer them. We see that Bran can do it, without instruction, to Hodor. Hodor is a lackwit, and Arthur isn’t. But Howland needs not full control, he just needs to slow Arthur down. I claim that a superwarg can do that. (4) It solves the mystery of why we haven’t seen Howland. Uniquely among Ned’s bannermen, he didn’t appear. That’s because he was mentally damaged, similar to what happened to the eagle-warging wildling in Jon’s chapters."


And Aerys II also murdered Jon Arynn's heir, not only the Starks, so the Vale was pretty much sure to rise up as well.

On April 25 2013 01:03 risk.nuke wrote:

Yeah, I'm not shooting down the Warg theory. I'm just saying very little is known about the fight and everything people say about it is speculation, which includes how Ned and Howland fought Dayne. Granted at some point they were 2v1 but we don't know if they were 3vs1 or 2v2 prior to that or if Dayne was the last KG standing. Which people have been saying so much everyone thinks is confirmed, but it's not. Likely doesn't make it so. And it's a trouble when people use that theory as a fact when they are working on another theory. Sort of like stacking bricks.

This is the first I hear about Jon Arryns heir?

On April 25 2013 01:30 Geo.Rion wrote:

It's mentioned several times i think, when LF explains to Sansa why Henry is the heir of the Vale, he tells the misfortunes of all the previous potential heirs of Jon Arynn, who all died. Gonna look it up

There, he went into the Red Keep shouting for Prince Rhaegar to come out and die. King Aerys II arrested him and his companions (his squire Ethan Glover, Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and the nephew and heir of the Lord of the Eyrie Elbert Arryn) for threatening and conspiring to murder the crown prince
from asoiaf wiki

On April 24 2013 20:41 Doppelganger wrote:
We will have to resign ourselves to the fact that the end of Game of Thrones will be on TV first. We might be lucky enough to get book 6 before the show ends and even as early as 2014 but there is no way A Dream of Spring comes out before 2017 (and that is very optimistic since the last season will probably require Martin to participate more in the show. at least that is what I expect).
Dunno how I feel about that thou. I rather would like to read the end.

On April 25 2013 02:03 Zozo wrote:
Problem is: kids grow. Bran will sound manlier than Hodor in a few years.

We did always plan to keep Robb front and center in Season Two from the get-go and we did plan to have him fall in love onscreen and alter the motivation for his breaking of the marriage pact somewhat (as discussed in the question above). But Jeyne Westerling evolved into Talisa as we were starting production. I’m guessing the idea was introduce a wild card into Robb’s life, something he could never have anticipated… but again, D&D created the character so it’s not really my place to say what motivated the change, as I wasn’t privy to the conversation. All that said, I love Rich and Oona together and really enjoy how the relationship plays out in Season Three.

I think that decision came about in the writers room as we were shaping the season… I think it was felt the uncertainty would be interesting for Michelle and Rich to play — so it would be a kind of slow burning grief as opposed to the sucker punch of Ned’s death in Season One. So Cat has this feeling of dread that they’re gone but just doesn’t know, which in some ways is even worse. I think it finally comes to a head in the scene with her and the Blackfish in 303 — I think in that moment she believes they’re dead.

But, yes, it altered the circumstances/motivations of Robb and Cat’s actions in Season 2. Dramatically, we wanted Robb and Cat to be solidly together in Season One and ripped apart by the end of Season 2. And, yes, in the show, Robb’s breaking of his marriage vow is motivated partly by the uncertainty of Bran and Rickon’s fate but also by the fact that he can’t shake the fact that he’s fallen in love. Yes, it’s arguably a grayer, more selfish act than in the book, but to err is to be human. It was thought it would be dramatically compelling for the actors and the viewers.

As for Cat and freeing Jaime, there was a ticking clock element added to it. Karstark wants blood, he’s gonna lynch Jaime. Cat can either let that happen and lose any chance of bargaining for Arya & Sansa or she can roll the dice and let him go. The events of that episode were also designed to plant the Karstark vengeance storyline which you’re seeing out this season.

On April 25 2013 02:01 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:


Even if the show catches the book I don't think it'll be on TV first. It's going to be pretty close but maybe GRRM can do it in time without greatly compromising the plot.

Looking back: GoT(1996) -> aCoK (1998) -> aSoS (2000) -> aFfC(2005) -> aDwD (2011)

He really slowed down after aSoS, but the first 3 weren't terribly far apart. Considering the plot of books 4 and 5 maybe those took longer as he's mainly straining for being heavy on the character development in those rather than going very far with the plot like in the first 3. Given how books 6 and 7 are supposed to pick up the pace again, perhaps it won't take quite as long to write. He also has increased incentive to write given the added popularity of the series now.

Now consider where the show is:

we're currently nearing 2 years after the release of the last book:

season 4 is the 2nd half of aSoS: +1 year

aFfC and aDwD will likely be combined into 2 seasons parallel to each other: +2 years

Possibility of them simply going on hiatus between 1 or 2 seasons (the Sopranos did it twice): +1-2 years

Book 6: +1 year

It may not be impossible for him to write the final 2 before HBO hits crunch time on needing to produce the final season.

On April 25 2013 02:03 Zozo wrote:
Problem is: kids grow. Bran will sound manlier than Hodor in a few years.

Al: What happened to the peach?

Bryan: Gethin Anthony. Bloody diva. He hates peaches. I mean HATES THEM. I was at lunch with him, early on — this is like, season one when we were all getting to know each other. There was this chocolate cake thing he ordered for desert and there was a kind of fruity sauce on it. He took one bite and said “Are there FUCKING PEACHES in this sauce?” Dude roared, I’ve never seen anything like it. Finn Jones was with us and we had to physically keep Geth from punching the waiter in the teeth. All the while, I’m thinking “Oh no! What are we going to do when we get to the peach in Season 2?”

So season 2 rolls around and we get to the scene and we do these table reads of the first few episodes. And Gethin is there, very nice… but he takes David & Dan aside. And I see him talking to D&D turning BRIGHT RED… like he’s about to have a breakdown or something. Then I remember: the peach! He’s read the draft! The scene with the peach! And David & Dan are trying to explain the symbolic meaning of the peach and how it’s a fan favorite and how many readers can’t separate Renly from the peach… We even had George skype with him about it — Gethin was so angry, foaming at the mouth. I didn’t think anyone could make George R.R. Martin cry but Gethin did. I can’t even repeat the things he said.

I’ve never seen anyone hate a specific fruit so much! And usually Geth’s a really sweet guy… you might even call him a “peach”. But don’t. Cuz if you do, he’ll cut you.

Anyway, no dice. He threatened to walk if we made him eat a peach. We offered to make a fake peach, out of gelatin or something, but that didn’t fly. He wouldn’t even PRETEND to eat a peach onscreen. We tried a few takes with him eating an apple… I think maybe one with a bunch of grapes… but it just didn’t work. So we cut the fruit altogether. But you can blame Gethin fucking Anthony and his weird peach hatred.

I hope by now you know I’m joking. I don’t know what happened to the peach. It was in there at one point, I think. Maybe there weren’t any peaches in season in Belfast that month…

On April 25 2013 02:03 Zozo wrote:
Problem is: kids grow. Bran will sound manlier than Hodor in a few years.

On April 25 2013 06:56 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Maybe GRRM can just write a little faster, he's five books in he should have the writing style down by now. It's the same every book just crrrrrank that shit out George.