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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 23 2013 08:08 Doppelganger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 08:00 Maxyim wrote:On April 23 2013 07:49 Irrelevant Label wrote:
Where did the show watchers get the impression that Ned was really good with a sword? And why are the same people doubting Jaime? How do you say "Ned is one of the best because he could stand up to Jaime" and "Jaime isn't that good."? That is straight doublethink.
This is ignoring the issue of even the show in it's own way establishing Jaime as better with Ned being hunkered down in a defensive stance and desperate while Jaime danced around toying with him, or the DvD bonus content and GRRM/D&D mentioning that Jaime is a prodigy with a sword, and of course book related knowledge. It's a pity that they did not have the budget for a fight between him and the Sword of the Morning, although I wonder if they will retcon the character in a flashback when they start setting the stage for Jon Snow's true parentage. I doubt we will see any flashbacks. And I think its for the best: that era has such a mythical quality, I could easily see so many expectations shattered If they would show this.
I would gander that the average GoT viewer does not even know about this content. I think that it was referred to, maybe, like, once in a conversation or "extended cut" thing, if at all...
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Russian Federation59 Posts
I don't think Daenerys will die until the finale of last book. She might turn evil though or at least make some choices with unfavourable consequences or maybe kill one of the "good" characters in westeros who are technically her enemies. She is definitely the top candidate for the iron throne in my eyes. But then again - Martin has been making it seem that way for a while now so who knows?
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On April 23 2013 05:59 Ender985 wrote:
I think out of all PoV's, Danny is pretty much the only one that has not been maimed in any way. Ok, she was pretty much forced by Drogo at the beginning, but that did not seem to have any lasting effects on her. I am thinkin she will not die, but she is likely to suffer a very big blow soon, something like turning her irreversibly blind or something to that effect, that prevents her from being able to fly Drogon. That would be a typical GRRM's twist that would bring some much needed depth to her otherwise pretty plain and boring character.
I was actually expecting Dany to die at the end of ADwD >.>
After Ned and the RW I figured nobody was safe at that point...
It'd be yet another genre busting moment in the series, yet another reminder that this book doesn't fit the typical fantasy mold.
Maybe whatever miracle allowed her to raise the dragons was utterly meaningless in the end. That despite her momentum in acquiring power, freeing the slaves of Astapor, and having such grandiose expectations in Westeros was all for naught.
That in the end all she did was unleash 3 monsters on the world, and deliver the freedmen into a situation no better than than when they were in chains. I could've seen that ending for her, given some of the other harsh fates for characters in this series.
That didn't come to pass, but I do strongly believe Dany will never make it across the narrow sea to Westeros by the end of the series. Especially considering Aegon is now in the picture and has a better claim to being the Targaryen heir over Dany.
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I'm sure everyone has already thought of this, but judging by the pace of which these seasons are coming out in comparison to the speed at which Martin is churning these books out, I would be ridiculously overjoyed for a season dedicated to Robert's Rebellion for all the remaining books to be finally released.
Would be curious as who they would cast for Lyanna/Brandon Stark, Rhaegar, Gerold, Howland, etc if so.
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If Faegon is true then it would be cool to have an episode explaining the blackfyre rebellion, hopefully from the perspectives of Dunk and Egg :p
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On April 23 2013 08:41 sung_moon wrote:
I'm sure everyone has already thought of this, but judging by the pace of which these seasons are coming out in comparison to the speed at which Martin is churning these books out, I would be ridiculously overjoyed for a season dedicated to Robert's Rebellion for all the remaining books to be finally released.
Would be curious as who they would cast for Lyanna/Brandon Stark, Rhaegar, Gerold, Howland, etc if so.
It would be kinda weird. It would really break the pacing of the show and you would need a completelly diferent cast. It would be cool to see, perhaps as a spin-off or something, but filler seasons can be really annoying. Specially since it's very common for the season to end in a cliffhanger.
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Hello,
I'm relatively new to the series, but I've spent the last 4 months or so catching up on the books and TV shows.
With that, I just have a crazy speculation that maybe some of you might care to discuss.
My theory is that R'hllor is actually, most probably, a giant primordial dragon.
The book series reinforces this idea several times when it suggests that red priest/priestesses' powers grow stronger with the re-emergence of Dany's Dragons in the east.
It could be that typical dragons, though rare, are R'hllor's spawns.
And R'hllor, like fire, is a representation of a duality, fire is life and destruction, resurrection and murderous shadows.
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On April 23 2013 08:58 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Hello,
I'm relatively new to the series, but I've spent the last 4 months or so catching up on the books and TV shows.
With that, I just have a crazy speculation that maybe some of you might care to discuss.
My theory is that R'hllor is actually, most probably, a giant primordial dragon.
The book series reinforces this idea several times when it suggests that red priest/priestesses' powers grow stronger with the re-emergence of Dany's Dragons in the east.
It could be that typical dragons, though rare, are R'hllor's spawns.
And R'hllor, like fire, is a representation of a duality, fire is life and destruction, resurrection and murderous shadows.
After reading the books I also brainstormed alot about R'hllor. Actually we don't know alot about the dragon eggs history before they were given away as a weddinggift. So your idea is quite interesting since magic would increase in the world after the birth of the dragons.
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An interesting point about Rhaegar though is initially you're brought to believe he is actually a bad guy not unlike his father. His name actually lends itself to this theory too as it sounds bestial, like a tyrants name. You're also brought to believe he kidnapped Lyanna.
However, through descriptions, he has only ever been described as being the perfect king of Westeros; kind, caring, compassionate and despising of war and conflict. Now we as readers don't know per se which version is true not not unlike the subtle hints towards Loras and Renly, having the TV show prove that Rhaegar was all those things would dispel the mystery of him and the ambiguity about his character and relationship with Lyanna.
I love the idea of seeing Robert's Rebellion but some things are better left to your imagination until they are properly dealt with in the books (The Tower of Joy)
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On April 23 2013 08:00 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 07:49 Irrelevant Label wrote:
Where did the show watchers get the impression that Ned was really good with a sword? And why are the same people doubting Jaime? How do you say "Ned is one of the best because he could stand up to Jaime" and "Jaime isn't that good."? That is straight doublethink.
This is ignoring the issue of even the show in it's own way establishing Jaime as better with Ned being hunkered down in a defensive stance and desperate while Jaime danced around toying with him, or the DvD bonus content and GRRM/D&D mentioning that Jaime is a prodigy with a sword, and of course book related knowledge. It's a pity that they did not have the budget for a fight between him and the Sword of the Morning, although I wonder if they will retcon the character in a flashback when they start setting the stage for Jon Snow's true parentage.
I could see them somehow tying it in with Bran's powers. I don't know if there was a weirwood at the tower of joy, but that would be might convenient. I've been wondering how Jon will find out who his parents are. Bran seeing it with his powers seems like a viable option
The tower of joy is one of my favorite scenes in the book series, I would be pissed if they botched it in the show. But if they could nail it, and get it perfect, it would be a very powerful moment. IF they can get it perfect. I'd put the odds of them doing it justice at about 30%
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I've had this idea in my head since I was first reading the books. It concerns Jon Snow - if you don't want things about him put in your head, don't click it!
+ Show Spoiler +Jon Snow is actually the bastard child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen.
EDIT: I can't believe you guys are talking about that scene - I've literally been wishing for it to appear in the show. My favorite part of the books, by far. Seven against three Kingsguard (Sword of the Morning!), and only two of them walk away alive? Paints a pretty good picture of how skilled Lord Stark was with a sword.
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On April 23 2013 07:42 Marradron wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 06:37 Strut wrote:On April 23 2013 05:59 Ender985 wrote:
I think out of all PoV's, Danny is pretty much the only one that has not been maimed in any way. Ok, she was pretty much forced by Drogo at the beginning, but that did not seem to have any lasting effects on her. I am thinkin she will not die, but she is likely to suffer a very big blow soon, something like turning her irreversibly blind or something to that effect, that prevents her from being able to fly Drogon. That would be a typical GRRM's twist that would bring some much needed depth to her otherwise pretty plain and boring character. She just flew Drogon for the very first time in the very last few pages in the last chapter of the last book. I doubt GRRM is going to immediately take that away. What's made her plain and boring is ignoring her dragons for the last 3 books and dicking around in the slave cities. I think you're right in predicting her getting maimed somehow in the future, just doubt it will happen as soon. And I do think she'll die, there's no reason to keep her alive by the time the series ends, since she can't have children. Actually she can perhaps have children. The proficy has been fulfilled. In the end of the ADWD every part has happened in some cryptic way and she has perhaps has had a miscarriage. someone wrote it down a bit better in this link. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120711132408AA7ke82
I have to say this blew my mind.
Was the Mountain burned after his death? Then it would fit with "mountains blow in the wind like leaves".
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On April 23 2013 09:24 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 07:42 Marradron wrote:On April 23 2013 06:37 Strut wrote:On April 23 2013 05:59 Ender985 wrote:
I think out of all PoV's, Danny is pretty much the only one that has not been maimed in any way. Ok, she was pretty much forced by Drogo at the beginning, but that did not seem to have any lasting effects on her. I am thinkin she will not die, but she is likely to suffer a very big blow soon, something like turning her irreversibly blind or something to that effect, that prevents her from being able to fly Drogon. That would be a typical GRRM's twist that would bring some much needed depth to her otherwise pretty plain and boring character. She just flew Drogon for the very first time in the very last few pages in the last chapter of the last book. I doubt GRRM is going to immediately take that away. What's made her plain and boring is ignoring her dragons for the last 3 books and dicking around in the slave cities. I think you're right in predicting her getting maimed somehow in the future, just doubt it will happen as soon. And I do think she'll die, there's no reason to keep her alive by the time the series ends, since she can't have children. Actually she can perhaps have children. The proficy has been fulfilled. In the end of the ADWD every part has happened in some cryptic way and she has perhaps has had a miscarriage. someone wrote it down a bit better in this link. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120711132408AA7ke82 I have to say this blew my mind. Was the Mountain burned after his death? Then it would fit with "mountains blow in the wind like leaves".
No, this isn't mind-blowing and has been brought up plenty times before. The main problem with coming to this conclusion so soon is that calling Quentyn the sun that rises and sets is a stretch, and Clegane as the mountain reference is an even bigger stretch. Then again, if these events aren't the correct correlations who knows how or when the true ones might occur in some future book.
Also, Clegane was not burned after his death - he became Robert Strong, the latest Kingsguard, through the efforts of Clyburn in order to defend Cersei in her upcoming trial by combat.
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On April 23 2013 09:24 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 07:42 Marradron wrote:On April 23 2013 06:37 Strut wrote:On April 23 2013 05:59 Ender985 wrote:
I think out of all PoV's, Danny is pretty much the only one that has not been maimed in any way. Ok, she was pretty much forced by Drogo at the beginning, but that did not seem to have any lasting effects on her. I am thinkin she will not die, but she is likely to suffer a very big blow soon, something like turning her irreversibly blind or something to that effect, that prevents her from being able to fly Drogon. That would be a typical GRRM's twist that would bring some much needed depth to her otherwise pretty plain and boring character. She just flew Drogon for the very first time in the very last few pages in the last chapter of the last book. I doubt GRRM is going to immediately take that away. What's made her plain and boring is ignoring her dragons for the last 3 books and dicking around in the slave cities. I think you're right in predicting her getting maimed somehow in the future, just doubt it will happen as soon. And I do think she'll die, there's no reason to keep her alive by the time the series ends, since she can't have children. Actually she can perhaps have children. The proficy has been fulfilled. In the end of the ADWD every part has happened in some cryptic way and she has perhaps has had a miscarriage. someone wrote it down a bit better in this link. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120711132408AA7ke82 I have to say this blew my mind. Was the Mountain burned after his death? Then it would fit with "mountains blow in the wind like leaves".
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799
This speculates the mountains may be the pyramids in Meereen that collapse as well.
Personally I'm still a little skeptical about this one. It's not impossible, but I think it was just a curse. If it does turn out to be true, it will probally mean she will name her child Drogo, not that he actually comes back.
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On April 23 2013 09:34 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 09:24 Redox wrote:On April 23 2013 07:42 Marradron wrote:On April 23 2013 06:37 Strut wrote:On April 23 2013 05:59 Ender985 wrote:
I think out of all PoV's, Danny is pretty much the only one that has not been maimed in any way. Ok, she was pretty much forced by Drogo at the beginning, but that did not seem to have any lasting effects on her. I am thinkin she will not die, but she is likely to suffer a very big blow soon, something like turning her irreversibly blind or something to that effect, that prevents her from being able to fly Drogon. That would be a typical GRRM's twist that would bring some much needed depth to her otherwise pretty plain and boring character. She just flew Drogon for the very first time in the very last few pages in the last chapter of the last book. I doubt GRRM is going to immediately take that away. What's made her plain and boring is ignoring her dragons for the last 3 books and dicking around in the slave cities. I think you're right in predicting her getting maimed somehow in the future, just doubt it will happen as soon. And I do think she'll die, there's no reason to keep her alive by the time the series ends, since she can't have children. Actually she can perhaps have children. The proficy has been fulfilled. In the end of the ADWD every part has happened in some cryptic way and she has perhaps has had a miscarriage. someone wrote it down a bit better in this link. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120711132408AA7ke82 I have to say this blew my mind. Was the Mountain burned after his death? Then it would fit with "mountains blow in the wind like leaves". http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799This speculates the mountains may be the pyramids in Meereen that collapse as well. Personally I'm still a little skeptical about this one. It's not impossible, but I think it was just a curse. If it does turn out to be true, it will probally mean she will name her child Drogo, not that he actually comes back.
Or that she meets him in the afterlife.
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On April 23 2013 09:36 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 09:34 SKC wrote:On April 23 2013 09:24 Redox wrote:On April 23 2013 07:42 Marradron wrote:On April 23 2013 06:37 Strut wrote:On April 23 2013 05:59 Ender985 wrote:
I think out of all PoV's, Danny is pretty much the only one that has not been maimed in any way. Ok, she was pretty much forced by Drogo at the beginning, but that did not seem to have any lasting effects on her. I am thinkin she will not die, but she is likely to suffer a very big blow soon, something like turning her irreversibly blind or something to that effect, that prevents her from being able to fly Drogon. That would be a typical GRRM's twist that would bring some much needed depth to her otherwise pretty plain and boring character. She just flew Drogon for the very first time in the very last few pages in the last chapter of the last book. I doubt GRRM is going to immediately take that away. What's made her plain and boring is ignoring her dragons for the last 3 books and dicking around in the slave cities. I think you're right in predicting her getting maimed somehow in the future, just doubt it will happen as soon. And I do think she'll die, there's no reason to keep her alive by the time the series ends, since she can't have children. Actually she can perhaps have children. The proficy has been fulfilled. In the end of the ADWD every part has happened in some cryptic way and she has perhaps has had a miscarriage. someone wrote it down a bit better in this link. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120711132408AA7ke82 I have to say this blew my mind. Was the Mountain burned after his death? Then it would fit with "mountains blow in the wind like leaves". http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1799This speculates the mountains may be the pyramids in Meereen that collapse as well. Personally I'm still a little skeptical about this one. It's not impossible, but I think it was just a curse. If it does turn out to be true, it will probally mean she will name her child Drogo, not that he actually comes back. Or that she meets him in the afterlife.
The "prophecy" says "then he will return", so I find that even more unlikely. It would probally say "then you face him again" or something if that was the case. Nothing is impossible though.
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On April 23 2013 09:23 remedium wrote:I've had this idea in my head since I was first reading the books. It concerns Jon Snow - if you don't want things about him put in your head, don't click it! + Show Spoiler +Jon Snow is actually the bastard child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. EDIT: I can't believe you guys are talking about that scene - I've literally been wishing for it to appear in the show. My favorite part of the books, by far. Seven against three Kingsguard (Sword of the Morning!), and only two of them walk away alive? Paints a pretty good picture of how skilled Lord Stark was with a sword.
In related news, + Show Spoiler +Littlefinger might not be the most trustworthy person around.
...Except he almost can't be a bastard because three of the kingsguard wouldn't have been there guarding his mother if he was. To warrant that, and particularly at that point in the war, they more or less had to think he was one of the remaining heirs to the dynasty.
Howland is indeed quite competent to have somehow carried Ned's injured ass to victory against the sword of the morning though. Maybe Arthur was already maimed or something. Maybe Howland is a genius with that frog spear. The junk about Howland skinchanging into him and making him lose is wild speculation, there is no reason to give it any credit.
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Concerning Jon Snow's origins - This is one of those things where everything seems to be pointing towards Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon, but we dont know for sure. It SEEMS like he most likely is Rhaegar's kid, but it is equally possible that all of this is a GIANT red herring. GRRM is known to do stuff like that. My opinion is that R+L=J is most likely true, and may come into play later.
Concerning Mirri Maz Durr's "Propecy", When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, when my womb quickens again and I bear a living child, Khal Drogo will return to me
The general theory is that Quentyn is the sun that rises in the west and sets in the east, since the sigil of house Martell is a spear pierced sun and he dies in the east. The sea going dry could be either a reference to the sea of grass that Dany is standing in at the end of ADwD, or a reference to Victarion Greyjoy's arrival on land. The mountain blowing in the wind could be a reference to The Mountatin being killed, but my personal theory is that when Dany is going through her sickness at the end, her vision becomes blurred and objects seem to sway - this could be when the Mountains blow in the wind like leaves, "The wind, she told herself, the wind shakes the stalks and makes them sway. Only no wind was blowing". And of course she is bleeding from you know where in this scene, so all these things could be pointing to this prophecy being fulfilled.
Or it could be a giant red herring. I think that Drogo returning to her is not actually Khal Drogo coming back, but rather his namesake, Drogon, finally becoming tame and allowing her to ride him.
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On April 23 2013 10:55 TheFish7 wrote:
Concerning Jon Snow's origins - This is one of those things where everything seems to be pointing towards Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon, but we dont know for sure. It SEEMS like he most likely is Rhaegar's kid, but it is equally possible that all of this is a GIANT red herring. GRRM is known to do stuff like that. My opinion is that R+L=J is most likely true, and may come into play later.
Concerning Mirri Maz Durr's "Propecy", When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, when my womb quickens again and I bear a living child, Khal Drogo will return to me
The general theory is that Quentyn is the sun that rises in the west and sets in the east, since the sigil of house Martell is a spear pierced sun and he dies in the east. The sea going dry could be either a reference to the sea of grass that Dany is standing in at the end of ADwD, or a reference to Victarion Greyjoy's arrival on land. The mountain blowing in the wind could be a reference to The Mountatin being killed, but my personal theory is that when Dany is going through her sickness at the end, her vision becomes blurred and objects seem to sway - this could be when the Mountains blow in the wind like leaves, "The wind, she told herself, the wind shakes the stalks and makes them sway. Only no wind was blowing". And of course she is bleeding from you know where in this scene, so all these things could be pointing to this prophecy being fulfilled.
Or it could be a giant red herring. I think that Drogo returning to her is not actually Khal Drogo coming back, but rather his namesake, Drogon, finally becoming tame and allowing her to ride him.
No one will actually know for sure until GRM publishes what he writes, but it's pretty much been proven fact from interactions between the fans and GRM.(ie, the producers of the TV show were asked the question "who is jon snow's mother?" by GRR during their first meeting)
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Like many people have stated, I think Ros will be killed in place of Dontos (also for double-crossing Littlefinger) next season.
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EPT
