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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On April 01 2013 11:04 InToTheWannaB wrote:
Does it bug anyone else that they made it so sam did not get the birds off at the battle of the fist? Its a small thing but in the book thats the start of sam becoming a man and not a bitch.
No because he doesn't send a message in the books. The birds simply go back by themselves and people on the wall imply what happened, so that's not a big deal at all. As for Sam becoming a man I just hope he kills a walker, that is epic.
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the butchering of littlefinger continues!
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I watched the end of season 2 for the first time today (episodes 8, 9 and 10) and the premiere of season 3. And I am disappointed. It feels like the show is getting worse. I really want to be able to enjoy it, but the farther the show deviates from the book, the harder it is for me to enjoy. I understand that there are TV constraints, and that they have to appeal to casual viewers, but it still bugs me. Even though I know its unreasonable for me to expect the show to live up to the grandness of the book series. On top of the plot changes, I feel like the acting and the script are getting worse each episode, like the production is very rushed.
I know that season 3 is just starting, and I should wait to watch it play out before becoming so cynical, but right now its hard to be very optimistic.
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On April 01 2013 12:02 itkovian wrote:
I watched the end of season 2 for the first time today (episodes 8, 9 and 10) and the premiere of season 3. And I am disappointed. It feels like the show is getting worse. I really want to be able to enjoy it, but the farther the show deviates from the book, the harder it is for me to enjoy. I understand that there are TV constraints, and that they have to appeal to casual viewers, but it still bugs me. Even though I know its unreasonable for me to expect the show to live up to the grandness of the book series. On top of the plot changes, I feel like the acting and the script are getting worse each episode, like the production is very rushed.
I know that season 3 is just starting, and I should wait to watch it play out before becoming so cynical, but right now its hard to be very optimistic.
Book 3 is like the greatest fantasy novel ever written...no crap the TV show is not gonna live up to it. If u were expecting the TV show to be even a fraction as good ur obv gonna be dissapointed. Just turn off ur brain and enjoy the good HBO visuals and acting and ull be ok.
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I'm kinda ok with the changes they make, but a lot of it is so unnecessary. I guess they're revealing Barristan's identity right away because people will recognize the actor and it'd be confusing otherwise? They kinda ruined the scene where Jon meets Mance too, which was pretty sick in the books. Was really hoping to see that done right and then it was a huge let down.
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On April 01 2013 12:47 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm kinda ok with the changes they make, but a lot of it is so unnecessary. I guess they're revealing Barristan's identity right away because people will recognize the actor and it'd be confusing otherwise? They kinda ruined the scene where Jon meets Mance too, which was pretty sick in the books. Was really hoping to see that done right and then it was a huge let down.
Agreed. Jon Snow's switch to wildling makes way more sense in the books. I really was looking forward to Mance's story, not sure why it wouldn't of fit in there.
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I don't know about you guys, but I was mighty pissed when they changed Jon's explanation of why he wanted to switch sides. The book explanation with him mad at being a bastard made so much more sense with his whole internal conflict than the fact that he wanted to fight The Others. On the subject of The Others, is it just me or are they over hyping that arc when The Others aren't really seen again and the Wall focuses more on the wildings?
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Alright I think I've figured out why Ros was originally added into the show, given how shes most likely going to replace Dontos role as the middleman for Sansa and Littlefinger coupled with the fact that shes a redhead which plays into Littlefingers whole obsession with Catelyn and later on Sansa. I mean all I can think of when I see him walking around with her is that he is just using her as a perverted replacement for Catelyn, Once Littlefinger gets Sansa in her grasps I think we'll end up seeing Ros killed off just like Dontos is in the books. If this is along the lines of why Ros was added into the show then I gotta give kudos to the directors for doing so because it really illustrates Littlefingers psyche in a subtle manner.
Also I hope they can manage to squeeze Strong Belwas into Season 4, he'd be a great way to add comic relief and just a memorable character into the show.
I think people need to wait out this season to see it pick up, you have to realize they've been given much more time to do less content and thus things may start off a little slow.
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On April 01 2013 13:04 methos222 wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I was mighty pissed when they changed Jon's explanation of why he wanted to switch sides. The book explanation with him mad at being a bastard made so much more sense with his whole internal conflict than the fact that he wanted to fight The Others. On the subject of The Others, is it just me or are they over hyping that arc when The Others aren't really seen again and the Wall focuses more on the wildings?
Seems like it may of been a conscious choice made in order for them to just skip the whole Mance being at the feast thing, Personally I think it's a poor choice but I feel the whole explanation of being on the proper side to fight vs the Others will really tie in well into the events we see in ADWD.
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Sick episode, so sad that 1/10 of season 3 is already over.
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On April 01 2013 13:09 AstroPegnuin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 13:04 methos222 wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I was mighty pissed when they changed Jon's explanation of why he wanted to switch sides. The book explanation with him mad at being a bastard made so much more sense with his whole internal conflict than the fact that he wanted to fight The Others. On the subject of The Others, is it just me or are they over hyping that arc when The Others aren't really seen again and the Wall focuses more on the wildings? Seems like it may of been a conscious choice made in order for them to just skip the whole Mance being at the feast thing, Personally I think it's a poor choice but I feel the whole explanation of being on the proper side to fight vs the Others will really tie in well into the events we see in ADWD.
I just don't see why instead of the introduction the had they couldn't of had Mance tell a story about climbing the wall and joining the King's retinue at Winterfell. They could have chosen a different way than as a bard if they felt that wasn't the right direction, but when Jon says do you remember where I was sitting it really had a huge emotional impact, and was way way more believable.
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Additionally, by not having him tell that story they don't foreshadow his foray into Winterfell during ADWD, where again he ventures south and joins Winterfell as a bard. I'm willing to bet he'll tell it at some other time.
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On March 30 2013 18:47 Lylat wrote:
I got bored at page 400 in the 5th book (it's ~1/3 of the book) a couple of month ago. I'm thinking about starting reading it again, is it worth it ? :p
No.
+ Show Spoiler +I really mean that. Everything plays out exactly as you expect and you will have no payoff/resolution or even a remotely compelling cliffhanger. It just ends in the most dissatisfying manner possible, and will likely leave you with no desire to read the 6th book asap. There is one really cool chapter toward the end in Winterfell involving some "pork pies", but other than that book 5 was really horrid.
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On April 01 2013 14:05 Drowsy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 18:47 Lylat wrote:
I got bored at page 400 in the 5th book (it's ~1/3 of the book) a couple of month ago. I'm thinking about starting reading it again, is it worth it ? :p No. + Show Spoiler +I really mean that. Everything plays out exactly as you expect and you will have no payoff/resolution or even a remotely compelling cliffhanger. It just ends in the most dissatisfying manner possible, and will likely leave you with no desire to read the 6th book asap. There is one really cool chapter toward the end in Winterfell involving some "pork pies", but other than that book 5 was really horrid.
ADWD is literally and entirely build up for the next book. If you really find it boring, just wait until the next one comes out and then take it all in one go so it doesn't end on a flat note.
That said, you'll be waiting quite some time.
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Forget Jon's changed excuse to say he wanted to leave the night's watch, the introduction to Mance was butchered by Mance. The whole charismatic-bard-type side of the character seems to be abandoned.
I hate the way they introduced Barristan. It's quite reasonably like the book version you might say, but a problematic detail damages the scenes later when Dany has her falling out with Jorah. The revelation and instant comparisons of how both men had betrayed her and how they own up to it vs. act like a jealous idiot then redeem vs. fail to redeem themselves for it cannot happen now. Instead she knows who he is from the start and they have to contrive something new to facilitate Barristan alerting her to how Jorah was spying against her later, or drop that reason for their falling out entirely which is probably worse.
I do not think they indicated that Dany understood the master just fine on her own. I do not think that detail should have been omitted because it robs Dany of some much needed agency. The show seems almost as determined to make her incompetent as the Meereenese knot was.
I do not think that Sam failing to get the ravens out does anything harmful. They will be in quite a dire situation when they are defending castle black from the wildings either way. The detail about Eastwatch and Shadow Tower being later with any reinforcement doesn't have to change anything. The timing of the ravens from castle black to the rest of the kingdoms can be harmlessly fudged to let Stannis arrive in time. People were joking about E-ravens back in season 1, if they have to continue to operate that way in the show then fine. The timing didn't make sense in the books either; GRRM's ships seem to have warp drives in a couple of the circa late book 2 and into book 3 voyages.
Given who is in the scene this is probably to be expected, but the Tyrion and Tywin scene was great.
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On April 01 2013 11:04 Xxio wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2013 10:55 Iranon wrote:On April 01 2013 09:04 Darthsanta13 wrote:
Red wedding was in the second half of the book, are you sure they're doing it this season? I know they're breaking this book into two seasons. Wikipedia has the episode titles for all of season 3. Episode 9 is titled "The Rains of Castamere". I can't imagine that not being the RW. Also, episode 7 is titled "The Bear and the Maiden Fair", so I guess we know when the bear fight is happening too. Also also, tsk tsk at TheToaster. I'm not going to get all high and mighty and say I don't pirate things, but it's frowned upon on TL. G.R.R. said that the RW will be in the last episode.
The LAST episode? Damn, they might lose a few TV "fans" if they do that.
I thought the show was great, I'm capable of separating the books and the show so I don't really mind the changes much if at all. The show is perfectly capable of being good and satisfying in its own way -- even though I think the books are better and much more satisfying : )
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On April 01 2013 14:12 Irrelevant Label wrote:
I do not think they indicated that Dany understood the master just fine on her own. I do not think that detail should have been omitted because it robs Dany of some much needed agency. The show seems almost as determined to make her incompetent as the Meereenese knot was.
Look at her face when he calls her a westerosi whore. It was really obvious, when you've got books knowledge.
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On April 01 2013 14:12 Irrelevant Label wrote:
Forget Jon's changed excuse to say he wanted to leave the night's watch, the introduction to Mance was butchered by Mance. The whole charismatic-bard-type side of the character seems to be abandoned.
I hate the way they introduced Barristan. It's quite reasonably like the book version you might say, but a problematic detail damages the scenes later when Dany has her falling out with Jorah. The revelation and instant comparisons of how both men had betrayed her and how they own up to it vs. act like a jealous idiot then redeem vs. fail to redeem themselves for it cannot happen now. Instead she knows who he is from the start and they have to contrive something new to facilitate Barristan alerting her to how Jorah was spying against her later, or drop that reason for their falling out entirely which is probably worse.
I do not think they indicated that Dany understood the master just fine on her own. I do not think that detail should have been omitted because it robs Dany of some much needed agency. The show seems almost as determined to make her incompetent as the Meereenese knot was.
I do not think that Sam failing to get the ravens out does anything harmful. They will be in quite a dire situation when they are defending castle black from the wildings either way. The detail about Eastwatch and Shadow Tower being later with any reinforcement doesn't have to change anything. The timing of the ravens from castle black to the rest of the kingdoms can be harmlessly fudged to let Stannis arrive in time. People were joking about E-ravens back in season 1, if they have to continue to operate that way in the show then fine. The timing didn't make sense in the books either; GRRM's ships seem to have warp drives in a couple of the circa late book 2 and into book 3 voyages.
Given who is in the scene this is probably to be expected, but the Tyrion and Tywin scene was great.
In terms of Daenerys understanding the master they did subtly put it in there with the use of the body language, both her and Jorah react when insulted.
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On April 01 2013 12:47 Beakyboo wrote:
I'm kinda ok with the changes they make, but a lot of it is so unnecessary. I guess they're revealing Barristan's identity right away because people will recognize the actor and it'd be confusing otherwise? They kinda ruined the scene where Jon meets Mance too, which was pretty sick in the books. Was really hoping to see that done right and then it was a huge let down.
This is bascially exactly what i thought about the episode. The opening of the show i thought was disappointing (although i expected it since season 2 ended so whacky) and the Mance Rayder conversation I didnt like. Barristan being revealed so early shocked me at first but then i realized I was an idiot and they basically had to do that on TV.
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Mance is not mance... wtf. He was supposed to be a bard! They lost strong belwas and ignored a books worth of mystery as to who the man was that saved daenerys. The did tywin/tyrion well. Don't like the whole shae/little finger alterations. At the rate they cut through and shorten story the series will surpass the books and have missed all the good details. And skip an awesome battle at the fist. Sam better kill a white walker with dragonglass!
Oh well we will get a really short quick nasty tv version of the end of the books and then wait years for the long better written versions to come out.... if he lives that long.
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EPT
