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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
In the other, non-spoiler thread:
On March 21 2013 01:03 Daogin wrote:
I hope the starks find some way out of the shit hole they are in, Rob is one of my fav characters D:
That poor guy :D
On March 20 2013 22:05 TSORG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:52 Dakkas wrote:On March 20 2013 12:45 Requizen wrote:On March 20 2013 09:37 itkovian wrote:On March 20 2013 05:57 Requizen wrote:On March 20 2013 05:55 Conti wrote:
Alright, I see a small difference now, and I definitely agree that the book handled things better. But it's still a very minor issue for me that's not really worth glancing at. I'm way more confused by Catelyn freeing Jaime for no apparent reason. Because she's a crazy bitch and I smiled when she died. I would have liked to see your face when they brought her back then, haha. I've never really liked Catelyn either, though I did feel bad for her often. But it is easier to like her when you stand her next to Cersei or Lysa. She and Cersei are two peas in a pod. They're both insane, irrational individuals with the only "rationale" behind their actions being "my children!". But it never really made up for the fact that they both make decisions that get entire armies fucked over because of COMPLETELY irrational and often amoral reasons. It's just especially frustrating with Catelyn, because with Cersei you expect her to be an evil, unlikable bitch. With Cat, the fact that she's a Stark and Ned legitimately loves her makes me think that she's supposed to be relateable and understandable, but instead she just ends up being one of my least favorite characters in the entire series. She's selfish in the extreme and constantly has a stick up her ass about so many things outside of her control, like Jon for instance. Someone hasn't been reading the books very well maybe not but i also found cat very annoying in the books XD ofc shes a tully and not a stark, that would be inbreeding 
I agree with you about Catelyn, though. I found the character annoying beyond belief. She was constantly going on about how she has to be strong for her children, and this was pretty much the entirety of her character to me. Plus, she arguably has the worst objective decision making on the entire show/the books. So many things she thinks or does in the books are objectively retarded or evil (her disliking Jon for something that he has no fault in, or whatever she does as Lady Stoneheart if you still consider her to be Cat) it's not funny.
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On March 21 2013 01:24 heishe wrote:
I agree with you about Catelyn, though. I found the character annoying beyond belief. She was constantly going on about how she has to be strong for her children, and this was pretty much the entirety of her character to me.
Given the (pseudo)medieval time the books play in, how is that at all surprising or annoying? Women, especially nobles, were told all their lives that their only purpose is to get lots of children and take care of them, etc. That Catelyn reacted the way she did when most of her children died (or so she was led to believe) is more than understandable, IMHO, and I don't understand the hate at all.
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On March 21 2013 01:50 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 01:24 heishe wrote:
I agree with you about Catelyn, though. I found the character annoying beyond belief. She was constantly going on about how she has to be strong for her children, and this was pretty much the entirety of her character to me. Given the (pseudo)medieval time the books play in, how is that at all surprising or annoying? Women, especially nobles, were told all their lives that their only purpose is to get lots of children and take care of them, etc. That Catelyn reacted the way she did when most of her children died (or so she was led to believe) is more than understandable, IMHO, and I don't understand the hate at all.
Is it realistic? Maybe. Doesn't really matter to me, as I didn't find it interesting at all. Remember, the same books have Aria, Brienne, Cersei, Daenerys, who are all fun to read. And the books generally have a shitload of characters which have lost a ton and are not nearly as annoying as Catelyn. It's reasonable to include a woman that actually thinks like a middle ages women in the books, it just didn't appeal to me at all, and I wanted to get over the Catelyn chapters as fast as possible, that's all I'm saying.
As to how this is annoying? Well, she is an entirely predictable character, and GRRMs writing within chapters is somewhat predictable (they always follow that classical literature trope of slow build up then orgasm and then relaxation period, with some exception where this pattern is stretched over multiple chapters, like the chapters around the Red Wedding) so I knew before I started them that she would bitch about the situation and that she had to be strong and not disappoint Rob or someone else and I had to get to the plot twist/reveal/plot advancement in the chapter to be done with it. That was simply incredibly annoying.
Also her middle ages women personality doesn't really explain why she is kinda dumb which is half the reason I didn't like that character at all (I was actually happy when she died at the Red Wedding).
I felt like that about Sansa in the beginning as well, by the way, as her character was just a whiny child that wanted everything to go back the way it was, but she got considerably better when she transformed into Alayne.
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well, 75% of the catelyn hatred is based on the fact that she's not an attractive young girl who will give you plenty of children, therefore you can't feel empathy or similar feelings for that person as a young adult.
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On March 21 2013 03:20 TigerKarl wrote:
well, 75% of the catelyn hatred is based on the fact that she's not an attractive young girl who will give you plenty of children, therefore you can't feel empathy or similar feelings for that person as a young adult.
Nah I never really liked her because she hated Jon. Also because I didn't find her interesting as a character, she always seemed to me like a character which just is POV to tell what Robb is doing. But after she turned into "Stone-Heart" I find her very interesting.
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On March 21 2013 01:03 Daogin wrote:
I hope the starks find some way out of the shit hole they are in, Rob is one of my fav characters D:
"That poor guy :D"
Exactly my thought. This will be a terrible episode for many people.
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I understand the logic of Catelyn letting Jaime go in the show because she thought Jaime would be killed, though I still think that it was much less sympathetic with her not knowing about Bran and Rickon. However, the only reason Jaime "probably wasn't going to survive the night" is because the writers changed it so that was the case. He was in no immenent danger of being killed when Catelyn released him in the books. In the book she was counting on Tyrion honoring the prisoner exchange since he said he would in public at court, but unfortunately Tyrion was no longer hand of the king by the time Jaime arrived. The writers also made up the ridiculous Jaime kills his own cousin escape plot.
Why not just keep Talisa's name as Jeyne? They could still change her character from shy to strong willed and independent if they wanted. Jeyne being fierce and independent as a noble woman who was taking care of Robb after he took an injury taking HER castle would be more believeable, rather than a wandering medic who talks back to kings. How did she know she wasn't talking to someone more like the Mountain who would have raped or killed her on the spot for mouthing off?
It would have been so easy to just have Jeyne meet Robb after he took her castle (which would have happened off screen like most of the battles), nurse him back to health, and then "comfort him" with a sex scene after he finds out that Bran and Rickon were "dead". They could have remained more faithful to the books in the same amount of screen time and budget with the same actors and still had their side love story.
I also don't understand the point of changing the timing so that Jaime is released and Robb finds out about it before he has married, instead of using his forgiveness of Catelyn releasing Jaime as a pardon to get her forgiveness for breaking his marriage vows. Instead Robb has Catelyn taken prisoner as a traitor? Does he think she is going to just start releasing random prisoners if she isn't escorted by armed guards? It's funny because ~18 year old book Robb Stark forgives her and realizes what a mess his decision has created in losing the 3,000 Frey footmen and 1,000 knights, but he also made the decision to marry with no counsel from his mother as a teenager under emotional duress.
"It was the only honorable thing to do. She's gentle and sweet Mother, she will make me a good wife." Robb said.
"Perhaps. That will not appease Lord Frey."
"I know," her son said, stricken. "I've made a botch of everything but the battles, haven't I? I though the battles would be the hard part, but.. If I had listened to you and kept Theon as my hostage, I'd still rule the north, and Bran and Rickon would be alive and safe in Winterfell."
TV Robb who is in his 20's, makes the decision anyway, after his mother points out the problems it will cause and refuses to even acknowledge that it will be a problem, but instead justifies it because Catelyn released Jaime...
I don't expect a word for word translation, but don't make changes if you don't have to. Keep things as close to the book as possible unless budget, casting, or time restrictions prevent it. They butchered Dany and Jon's story as well, and even Arya's which was well acted, but TV Harrenhal was practically a resort stay in comparison to what she went thru in the book. So as good as the season 3 trailers are looking, I'm wary of the changes they are going to make this season because in comparison to season 1, season 2 was a major disappointment outside of Blackwater, even though the season 2 trailers looked great.
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On March 21 2013 04:02 karazax wrote:
It would have been so easy to just have Jeyne meet Robb after he took her castle (which would have happened off screen like most of the battles), nurse him back to health, and then "comfort him" with a sex scene after he finds out that Bran and Rickon were "dead". They could have remained more faithful to the books in the same amount of screen time and budget with the same actors and still had their side love story.
This is actually one change I fully understand, as flawed as it might be. You just cannot introduce a character in one episode and then have Robb have sex with that character. And if they would want to spend more episodes with Jeyne first, they would have Robb stay at her castle for multiple episodes, which also would make no sense. They had to introduce her (or some version of her) multiple episodes before that to establish a relationship between the two first.
Personally, I think it would have been awesome if they would have done things just like in the books ("Oh, hi Mom. I'm back. and this is, er, my wife. Surprise!"), but from a TV storytelling perspective that just doesn't work for the non-book readers.
And do prepare for more and more changes to the story and characters. GRRM himself just said in an interview that the show will deviate further and further from the books with every season. This was just the beginning.
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Why wouldn't it make sense for Robb to stay at her castle for multiple episodes if she is nursing him back to health from a wound that festered? Besides it's not like their TV relationship really "grew" that much over the mulitple episodes before they had sex in the show, and he could have still had most if not all of the non-Talisa conversations at her castle as he could anywhere else. In fact it would have made more sense as to why she could come and go into the king's presence at will if it was her castle and she was taking care of him.
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On March 21 2013 04:11 Conti wrote:
And do prepare for more and more changes to the story and characters. GRRM himself just said in an interview that the show will deviate further and further from the books with every season. This was just the beginning.
Damn. I know its irrational to expect anything else, but that still makes me angry. I don't know if I'll be able to keep watching through all these years, because it drives me nuts watching the show when they change stuff. And it's only going to get worse? I know I should try and appreciate the show independent from the books, but that's too hard for me. Especially when the majority of people hear "game of thrones" and think of the show first, and not the book.
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On March 21 2013 03:31 Vandrad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 01:03 Daogin wrote:
I hope the starks find some way out of the shit hole they are in, Rob is one of my fav characters D: "That poor guy :D" Exactly my thought. This will be a terrible episode for many people.
Sometimes I stumble upon that other, no spoilers thread, and people's comments amuse me more than they should. That one had me laughing.
On March 21 2013 03:20 TigerKarl wrote:
well, 75% of the catelyn hatred is based on the fact that she's not an attractive young girl who will give you plenty of children, therefore you can't feel empathy or similar feelings for that person as a young adult.
If you go by book ages, some of us BW vets here in TL are actually closer to Catelyn's age than Robb's. Robb's only 15-16 in the books.
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Well it was expected that they would continue to change the story. Some stuff had to be changed simply because its too hard/impossible to show on TV (i.e. all of Theon's thoughts as Reek), and more deviations will occur simply because of changes that they have already made (i.e. Talisa instead of Jeyne).
On March 21 2013 04:11 Conti wrote:
This is actually one change I fully understand, as flawed as it might be. You just cannot introduce a character in one episode and then have Robb have sex with that character. And if they would want to spend more episodes with Jeyne first, they would have Robb stay at her castle for multiple episodes, which also would make no sense. They had to introduce her (or some version of her) multiple episodes before that to establish a relationship between the two first.
It would have actually been very easy to fit Jeyne in. One episode of Robb attacking the castle/getting injured, which could easily have replaced the battle where he met Talisa. They start getting close after she starts treating her wounds and become friends. They could then make up some excuse as to why she stays with his host (keeping prisoners for ransom.etc), and from there it could have been exactly the same as how things progressed with Talisa.
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On March 21 2013 04:34 karazax wrote:
Why wouldn't it make sense for Robb to stay at her castle for multiple episodes if she is nursing him back to health from a wound that festered? Besides it's not like their TV relationship really "grew" that much over the mulitple episodes before they had sex in the show, and he could have still had most if not all of the non-Talisa conversations at her castle as he could anywhere else. In fact it would have made more sense as to why she could come and go into the king's presence at will if it was her castle and she was taking care of him.
Because time. Everything that happens in the show happens within many, many weeks. Robb staying at the castle for a few days could only be portrayed in one episode. That, or he would enter a time bubble in which time would slow down for his story arc while everything else moves on much faster, creating another issue to complain about. Talisa first appeared in episode 4, and they married in, what, episode 8? And you are absolutely right, there was not that much of a relationship formed between Talisa and Robb, either. Even though they had 4 episodes together. Now imagine Robb staying at some random castle for half the season.. it just doesn't work.
On March 21 2013 04:53 Ario wrote:Well it was expected that they would continue to change the story. Some stuff had to be changed simply because its too hard/impossible to show on TV (i.e. all of Theon's thoughts as Reek), and more deviations will occur simply because of changes that they have already made (i.e. Talisa instead of Jeyne). Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 04:11 Conti wrote:
This is actually one change I fully understand, as flawed as it might be. You just cannot introduce a character in one episode and then have Robb have sex with that character. And if they would want to spend more episodes with Jeyne first, they would have Robb stay at her castle for multiple episodes, which also would make no sense. They had to introduce her (or some version of her) multiple episodes before that to establish a relationship between the two first.
It would have actually been very easy to fit Jeyne in. One episode of Robb attacking the castle/getting injured, which could easily have replaced the battle where he met Talisa. They start getting close after she starts treating her wounds and become friends. They could then make up some excuse as to why she stays with his host (keeping prisoners for ransom.etc), and from there it could have been exactly the same as how things progressed with Talisa.
And then they would have to explain why they were spending such a huge focus on this unnamed castle no viewer ever heard of that seems to have not much tactical use. They would have to introduce a whole host of new characters (Jeyne's family, etc.). And they would have to slow down every other storyline, as I explained above.
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On March 21 2013 05:01 Conti wrote:
Because time. Everything that happens in the show happens within many, many weeks. Robb staying at the castle for a few days could only be portrayed in one episode. That, or he would enter a time bubble in which time would slow down for his story arc while everything else moves on much faster, creating another issue to complain about. Talisa first appeared in episode 4, and they married in, what, episode 8? And you are absolutely right, there was not that much of a relationship formed between Talisa and Robb, either. Even though they had 4 episodes together. Now imagine Robb staying at some random castle for half the season.. it just doesn't work.
Robb pretty much did spend that much time at her castle in the books recovering from the wound he took seiging the castle so I don't see the problem. We don't know exactly how long he was there, but it was long enough for the wound to seem like nothing at first, then fester, then get nursed back to health.
Robb doesn't really have much of a role in any of the PoV chapters in Clash of Kings. Catelyn doesn't find out about the marriage until Storm of Swords. Besides they could always have him take Jeyne back to the Stark camp to finish recovering if they thought it was that big a problem to keep him at her castle the whole time, and then had the Bran and Rickon death and "comfort" scene there.
And then they would have to explain why they were spending such a huge focus on this unnamed castle no viewer ever heard of that seems to have not much tactical use. They would have to introduce a whole host of new characters (Jeyne's family, etc.). And they would have to slow down every other storyline, as I explained above.
I just don't see it as being nearly as hard to explain as you do. Robb is taking the castle of a Lannister bannerman explains why he was there. Robb gets injured in the battle and is too injured to be moved for several episodes explains why he stays. All the other scenes Robb has could still occur while he is in his sick bed at the castle with a little tweaking. Jeynes family could be reduced to a mother and/or father or already be dead/killed in the siege or otherwise explained away or played by extras. They had to have extras for Robb's scenes at the Stark camp, so what's the difference? I don't see how that's harder to explain than a Volantis noble woman medic traveling the war torn country side alone, mouthing off to nobles, and being given free access to the king or the time needed to explain Talisa's history to Robb.
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On March 21 2013 04:11 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 04:02 karazax wrote:
It would have been so easy to just have Jeyne meet Robb after he took her castle (which would have happened off screen like most of the battles), nurse him back to health, and then "comfort him" with a sex scene after he finds out that Bran and Rickon were "dead". They could have remained more faithful to the books in the same amount of screen time and budget with the same actors and still had their side love story. This is actually one change I fully understand, as flawed as it might be. You just cannot introduce a character in one episode and then have Robb have sex with that character. And if they would want to spend more episodes with Jeyne first, they would have Robb stay at her castle for multiple episodes, which also would make no sense. They had to introduce her (or some version of her) multiple episodes before that to establish a relationship between the two first. Personally, I think it would have been awesome if they would have done things just like in the books ("Oh, hi Mom. I'm back. and this is, er, my wife. Surprise!"), but from a TV storytelling perspective that just doesn't work for the non-book readers. And do prepare for more and more changes to the story and characters. GRRM himself just said in an interview that the show will deviate further and further from the books with every season. This was just the beginning.
In the books, I always took the Robb and Jeyne's marriage as Robb going "Oops, I had sex with this girl, now I gotta marry her to preserve her honor", rather than some big irrational romance. The TV series had it where he is like "Fuck they Freys and their little 'bridge', I want pussy", which is a very big negative change, and makes Robb look like a horny retard.
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On March 21 2013 06:22 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2013 04:11 Conti wrote:On March 21 2013 04:02 karazax wrote:
It would have been so easy to just have Jeyne meet Robb after he took her castle (which would have happened off screen like most of the battles), nurse him back to health, and then "comfort him" with a sex scene after he finds out that Bran and Rickon were "dead". They could have remained more faithful to the books in the same amount of screen time and budget with the same actors and still had their side love story. This is actually one change I fully understand, as flawed as it might be. You just cannot introduce a character in one episode and then have Robb have sex with that character. And if they would want to spend more episodes with Jeyne first, they would have Robb stay at her castle for multiple episodes, which also would make no sense. They had to introduce her (or some version of her) multiple episodes before that to establish a relationship between the two first. Personally, I think it would have been awesome if they would have done things just like in the books ("Oh, hi Mom. I'm back. and this is, er, my wife. Surprise!"), but from a TV storytelling perspective that just doesn't work for the non-book readers. And do prepare for more and more changes to the story and characters. GRRM himself just said in an interview that the show will deviate further and further from the books with every season. This was just the beginning. In the books, I always took the Robb and Jeyne's marriage as Robb going "Oops, I had sex with this girl, now I gotta marry her to preserve her honor", rather than some big irrational romance. The TV series had it where he is like "Fuck they Freys and their little 'bridge', I want pussy", which is a very big negative change, and makes Robb look like a horny retard.
Yeah, they changed him from an honorable idiot (like his father) to a romantic idiot. Personally, I don't like the change either. I'm just saying that I can understand it.
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On March 20 2013 20:33 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2013 13:23 Irrelevant Label wrote:
Jaime was probably not going to survive the night in Robb's camp. If he dies there is little chance of anything short of horrible repercussions for her daughter(s) who are both, to her knowledge, still in the Lannister's possession in KL. That is plenty of reason.
The three key points are: 1. There is about no conceivable way that releasing Jaime harms Sansa and Arya, at least not without first having to ripple off a few other events. 2. Anything bad happening to Jaime very likely means her daughters die. 3. Jaime is not going to be in their possession anymore in either event. She doesn't need her track record of reckless emotional decisions, though it sure doesn't hurt. A perfectly rational person would do the same thing. They cut some reasons and changed the story in probably negative ways, but that decision works.
People forgave the change to make Ned outright lawful stupid in the show yet change the specifics behind the reason Cat lets Jaime go and it's some kind of travesty. My priorities must be very odd.
I think the only changes that really matter are Ned being turned into an idiot/Sansa being relatively innocent of screwing the Starks over (mostly closed issue), Robb betraying the Frey alliance for much weaker and non-honorable reasons (will be closed by the end of s3), Jaime being a sociopath, Arya not being a sociopath, Theon not broadcasting the claim of having killed the younger Stark boys (which they might ignore and in a roundabout way end up a non-change, it is easy enough to claim it was spread by Ramsay somehow), and possibly one or more of the Dany changes but there are so many it is hard to say how they add up yet.
The meta issues are also interesting. Letting the audience know that Varys and Illyrio are a conspiratorial item so early could change things. The relative lack of mentions of prophecy could change the way a lot of things are presented. Then there is that little Jon's parentage thing not being hinted at in the slightest in the show.
Not that this show can really claim to be an adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire with Emilia Clarke's eye color. Call the whole thing off because that is unforgivable. Don't get me started on Syrio's age and...hair?! Or should I stick with the "Will died first!" movement regarding the opening scene? At least...what was the phase? "Despite being three whores short the battle managed to be entirely off the chain." Well, the changes that really matter, they completly changed Shae, in the books she's a fairly simple whore, in the TV she's a willful fairly cunning person, and appears to have real emotions towards Tryion and even Sansa. I'd say that's easily one of the top 3 character-diversions, the first one obviously being Littlefinger, the third one, as you mentioned, Arya not builidng up a body-count. I actually really liked Syrio's hair, and Tywinn's too, GRRM likes to make most powerful male characters bold (Tywinn, Stannis, Varrys, Syrio and im sure there are more). I really disliked that they couldnt give purple contacts to danny, cuz " its hard to wear them for so long" give me a break.... For the prophecies, (S)snow in the throne room can be seen as a hint for Jon's parantege if you really want to.
I knew I was probably forgetting something or other. Shae actually caring about Tyrion and being an all around reasonably smart person is quite a change too. They have to change Tyrion's arc a bit for the Shae changes.
I don't think the LF changes actually matter for the narrative. They make for a different character, but I think that is just the show dropping his subtlety for whatever probably poor reason but not really making him do much differently. He does the same things, he just talks about it now.
To me the biggest is Jaime. I found it hilarious that the scene that I thought the most terrible change they have made from the books was one that on it's own merits was so good and from interviews the actors and production people seemed to love it. That scene being where he kills what-was-his-name-who-replaced-Cleos.
Arya is weird because while a big change the new version manages to be as good or better. It is one thing for a character who was minor in the book to do that like Osha, and rather interesting when a major character does it.
Edit: Hah, 'that poor guy.' I can't help but think some comments like that are intentionally placed there by people looking to trigger snickering among the readers. I don't know if I'll be able to hold out from saying something to the effect of "I'm sure he'll receive the just regards he has coming to him." much longer. That other thread is fun sometimes.
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Shae:
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah the Shae change was one of my biggest complaints about season 1, where she is getting paid yet acts basicly rebellious and insulting to Tyrion, compared to book Shae basicly doing whatever she could to please and seduce him. The only other major season 1 complaints that come to mind were all the added scenes for Ros when so much other stuff had to be cut due to lack of time, and the changes to Littlefinger.
Littlefinger:
+ Show Spoiler +I think the LF changes do matter more though because talking and bragging about his plans makes it much less likely that any of it would work. I can understand why they need some of the exposition for PoV characters since you don't get their internal monologue, but Littlefinger isn't a PoV character so just keep what the viewers know the same as what the readers know. The book version is like Verbal Kint/Kaiser Sosei in the Usual Suspects in that he is the real threat to the game that no one sees because they see him as having no army or significant lands. But TV Littlefinger is more like a comic book villain broadcasting every move. The story might get to the same point, but it's less believeable that someone who is such a buffoon would manage to do so.
Jaime:
+ Show Spoiler +I also agree that Jaime killing his cousin in a completely unbelieveable escape plan was a bad change.
Arya:
+ Show Spoiler +With Arya, the acting was overall great, but her experience was so much easier than what she was supposed to have to endure. Tywin practically treated her like his own kid, where with Weese she was beaten and constantly in danger and even serving Roose Bolton wasn't as pleasant, nor did he allow as much talking back. No weasel soup. Jaqen was a shadow of himself. Arya hasn't bloodied her hands in the same way which included killing a northman Bolton guard to escape and stealing horses and supplies. It was very well acted over all so it was easier to forgive, but there were still some really dumb moments like Lorch being killed by a dart at Tywin's door when he was about to reveal that Arya took the letter. And with Arya being so close to Tywin, not thinking of him as a choice much sooner just wasn't believeable. Beyond that Jaqen wouldn't have told her no like in the show. He would have told her it will take time, but Arya asks:
"Even if I named the king..."
"Speak the name, and death will come. On the morrow, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day. A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and and then another and one day a man is there, and a king dies."
Jaqen transforms her from a mouse to feeling like a ghost, but the show she is never a mouse for any significant amount of time I can live with the changes, but I still would have preferred a more faithful adaptation.
Dany:
+ Show Spoiler +Dany's story line was completely redone and for the worse. Bad writing with a script that reads like a parody. Dany begging them to let her in Qarth because they will starve if they don't get let in, then threatening to come back after her dragons are grown and burn their city to the ground when she is refused... Good luck doing that after starving to death, and now that they know that is a possible future fate why would they consider letting you in? Especially considering what the Valayrians did to that continent in the past with their dragons. The elaborate plan by Xaro to take the dragons when he could have just taken them at the gates. Xaro having a reputation as the richest man in Qarth, but actually having nothing in his vault. Sorry medieval society doesn't have credit cards to live beyond your means if you have literally nothing of value in the vault. And why does the richest man in Qarth commit a coup and not have any guards on his home or bed chamber? House of Undying with no Undying and apparently Pyat Pree is the only warlock in the order? I expected the prophesies would have to be changed some for budget and for spoiler reasons, but what they came up with seemed pretty weak. There was also the blustering regular threats of "fire and blood" where Dany was actually a seasoned diplomat beyond her years in the book. Her demands didn't even really make much sense. She was asking the spice king for a ship. One ship... I'm pretty sure that she could hire a single ship to carry her ~30 people across the sea pretty easily. Not much point without an army, but like I said the story line was a mess. Some people didn't like Dany's book story either, but I don't see how anyone could say the garbage they replaced it with was an improvement.
Jon:
+ Show Spoiler +Jon Snow suffered a similar fate as an idiot who bumbled from one event to the next. Letting Ygritte escape was fine, but why did he go chase her down and take her prisoner again? It was already established that they didn't have the food to feed a prisoner nor the man power to guard her and her shouts could give away their presence, which is why Qhorin ordered Jon to kill her in the first place. So where the hell was Jon escorting her to after he recaptured her before bumbling into the wildlings? Qhorin was changed from the most legendary ranger in the Nights Watch to an old man the wildlings captured without an on screen fight to take back to Mance. They replaced the manhunt for Jon and Qhorin,with Jon walking thru the snow while Ygritte flirted with him. Jon killing Qhorin seemed more like self defense than proving he wanted to be a wildling. In fact after defending himself, Jon never even asked to join the wildlings. Yet Rattleshirt is the first one to say let him go? The Lord of Bones doesn't even trust Jon in the books after Jon comes out and asks to join them, and then kills Qhorin as a condition of being able to do that.
Dontos:
+ Show Spoiler +It was also really odd to have Dontos in episode 1 and then cut him from the show completely as from what I have heard he was not cast for season 3 and obviously never had a role in any of the later parts of season 2. Sansa risked Joffrey's wrath to save him, and used the it's bad luck to have someone killed on your name day line from the book, which was great except for the fact that the Hound just killed his opponent right before that.
I expected most of the battles to be cut. I understood only making one shadow baby instead of two and cutting the siege of Storms End for budget reasons (though they never explained what under ground gate Davos rowed Mellesandre to in the show considering Renly was in a camp in his tent..). It was also quite a change for Loras not to even suspect Brienne of killing Renly. I expected no Tullys, no brave companions, no Jojen and Meera, and even no Ramsay Snow and a bunch of other minor characters for season 2, some of which are appearing in season 3. There was just so many things they could have stuck closer to the books with the actors, screen time and budget they had. Any time the lack of screen time to fit everything in is brought up, I think about all the TV created whore scenes they add and just can't understand their value.
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Well about the Hound, I'm quite sure it wasn't his name day.
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You're not going to keep watching the show and write endless posts like that each week pointing out everything that's wrong with the week's episode, are you?
I don't even disagree with most of what you say. It's just that a) it's a TV show with a tight budget and writers that are not as good as GRRM (with one exception), and b) you can pick apart the books just like that. They're far from perfect either, y'know.
I honestly don't understand the fascination of watching a TV show just to go on the internet to point out how much it sucks. Why do people do that? Are they really that naive to expect the show to be just as good as the books?
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EPT
