EPTAlso, the GRRM interview basically kills the Syrio = Jaquen theory right? Wasn't a good one anyway imo.
[TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion - Page 174
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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread. | ||
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Lorken
New Zealand804 Posts
Also, the GRRM interview basically kills the Syrio = Jaquen theory right? Wasn't a good one anyway imo. | ||
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DarkSpectre
121 Posts
 He said that the first 400 pages of TWOW book are done. It's very likely that the book will be released in 2014. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
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DarkSpectre
121 Posts
On August 09 2012 20:10 Vindicare605 wrote: Do any of you have a link to a transcript of the interview you're talking about? Sounds very interesting. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/71917-new-grrm-interview/ It's the latest one. You are welcome | ||
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Flyingdutchman
Netherlands858 Posts
On August 09 2012 19:54 Lorken wrote: Anyone else notice that Gordon's kid in Batman 2 (the 2008 one) is Joffrey? He looks so young and not cunty. Also, the GRRM interview basically kills the Syrio = Jaquen theory right? Wasn't a good one anyway imo. hehe, yeah I noticed that when it was on telly one or two weeks ago. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On August 09 2012 20:06 DarkSpectre wrote: Since the infamous Meereenese knot is untangled, GRRM will finish writing the Winds of Winter book much faster He said that the first 400 pages of TWOW book are done. It's very likely that the book will be released in 2014.I never understood all his complaints about the Meereenese knot. It wasn't like he wrote some complex, neatly fitting jumble of storylines that perfectly fit together. Pulp Fiction, this was not. He just had Danny sit still for nearly a thousand pages, waiting like a dumb goose for no serious reason. "I have to get all these characters to meet at the same time!" "Let's just have one character make up some bullshit reason to sit still for 2000 pages for what might just be the weakest pay-off in the series history!" Honestly, who can even care about that knot? What happened? Some nobody character got himself torched by being an idiot, thus making his entire arc about as pointless as all of Dorne has been up to this point. The only great scene in the entire book was Danny beating her dragon into submission, showing some of that Dragon-Queen vibe that made her so much fun. She was a bad-ass, held back by her incompetent and sadistic brother, waiting to be set free to kick some serious ass. Now she just became some whiny and incompetent child that sat around doing jack-shit and letting everyone else make her choices. Dance has not been kind to her character. Danny rose from a beaten-girl into a real Targaryen. All she did in Dance until the end was regress back into the submissive girl role. If I wanted submissive girls listening to men telling them what to do, I would read...ooh yeah, I remember, every other Fantasy novel in existence. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On August 09 2012 21:54 zalz wrote: I never understood all his complaints about the Meereenese knot. It wasn't like he wrote some complex, neatly fitting jumble of storylines that perfectly fit together. Pulp Fiction, this was not. He just had Danny sit still for nearly a thousand pages, waiting like a dumb goose for no serious reason. "I have to get all these characters to meet at the same time!" "Let's just have one character make up some bullshit reason to sit still for 2000 pages for what might just be the weakest pay-off in the series history!" Honestly, who can even care about that knot? What happened? Some nobody character got himself torched by being an idiot, thus making his entire arc about as pointless as all of Dorne has been up to this point. The only great scene in the entire book was Danny beating her dragon into submission, showing some of that Dragon-Queen vibe that made her so much fun. She was a bad-ass, held back by her incompetent and sadistic brother, waiting to be set free to kick some serious ass. Now she just became some whiny and incompetent child that sat around doing jack-shit and letting everyone else make her choices. Dance has not been kind to her character. Danny rose from a beaten-girl into a real Targaryen. All she did in Dance until the end was regress back into the submissive girl role. If I wanted submissive girls listening to men telling them what to do, I would read...ooh yeah, I remember, every other Fantasy novel in existence. That's going a bit far though.. She's not exactly submissive. She's just had a chance to show that she's not flawless, quite possibly has the Targaryen madness and imo kind of showed that she's just about the same stuff as her brother. It's funny how similar Visarys was in book 1 to Dany book 5. Hopefully she got some humility and brains beaten into her out in the Dothraki sea. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
ASoIaF would have been so much stronger without Dany and Essos. It was good and made sense in AGoT with the impending invasion (and the Westeros tie-in through Robert and wanting to assassinate her), and had it gone through it would have made things interesting, but once the invasion crapped out its just been dragging out for no reason. Her story since AGoT has pretty much gone nowhere. She roamed around, took over a few places, started a civil war and then she sat her ass down for an entire book doing nothing. Even if it ever does go somewhere (which I hope it does, to at least give it a bit of a saving grace), it still could have skipped past just about all the events of book 2-5 and we would have missed nothing important. Even the tie-ins that GRRM tried to toss in there to make her relevant to the rest of the story have been weak. Quentyn's arc was pointless and Tyrion's slavery arc, while better, was for the most part mediocre as well. | ||
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 11 2012 16:07 moopie wrote: I don't see Dany learning any humility. The Dany of AGoT is long gone, and in her place is a power hungry, whiny, conceited self-entitled bitch, who sadly can't be killed off yet cause it will just make her entire arc completely pointless. ASoIaF would have been so much stronger without Dany and Essos. It was good and made sense in AGoT with the impending invasion (and the Westeros tie-in through Robert and wanting to assassinate her), and had it gone through it would have made things interesting, but once the invasion crapped out its just been dragging out for no reason. Her story since AGoT has pretty much gone nowhere. She roamed around, took over a few places, started a civil war and then she sat her ass down for an entire book doing nothing. Even if it ever does go somewhere (which I hope it does, to at least give it a bit of a saving grace), it still could have skipped past just about all the events of book 2-5 and we would have missed nothing important. Even the tie-ins that GRRM tried to toss in there to make her relevant to the rest of the story have been weak. Quentyn's arc was pointless and Tyrion's slavery arc, while better, was for the most part mediocre as well. Agreed. I feel like GRRM tried to do too much on too large of a scale by including Dany's story arc. It's cool to know something about Essos and the rest of GRRM's world, but It's unnecessary and just boring in general. Every time I've ever read any of her chapters, I've just blown through it so I can get back to the Westeros story arcs. I'm sure we could have learned plenty about Essos through stories and interactions in the Westeros arcs. | ||
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laszmosis
Australia112 Posts
On August 13 2012 07:40 Lylat wrote: Soooo I'm halfway through book 4 and there is something that annoys me, why didn't GRRM give us Joeff, S.Clegane, Robb, Littlefinger or Stannis POV instead of the likes of Brienne and Sam?... I am quite bored by their storylines and don't feel attached to those characters at all. Even Sansa POV is boring me, I'd rather have Littlefinger's. Joffrey: Would you want to write the insane and psychopathic thoughts of jeoff? Littlefinger: His thoughts are best kept a secret, he is the most sneakiest character in the book, doing POV of him would ruin his character and the story. As far as your other ones, you have a point, but I guess it was his decision. It's mostly the case of what he wants you to know and what he doesn't want you to know, as not knowing about some events and their outcomes drives a lot of the story and adds suspense. | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
Littlefinger: His thoughts are best kept a secret, he is the most sneakiest character in the book, doing POV of him would ruin his character and the story. Yeah, keep the reader well away from LF's head. He is a lot more fun this way; so long as we have someone to keep some tabs on him from. Agreed on Brienne. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 13 2012 07:52 laszmosis wrote: Joffrey: Would you want to write the insane and psychopathic thoughts of jeoff? Littlefinger: His thoughts are best kept a secret, he is the most sneakiest character in the book, doing POV of him would ruin his character and the story. As far as your other ones, you have a point, but I guess it was his decision. It's mostly the case of what he wants you to know and what he doesn't want you to know, as not knowing about some events and their outcomes drives a lot of the story and adds suspense. It would be difficult, but writing from the PoV of someone as bat-shit crazy as Joff would add to the book tremendously if it was done correctly. Also, I don't see how it would ruin anything if Littlefinger got a PoV. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 13 2012 07:40 Lylat wrote: Soooo I'm halfway through book 4 and there is something that annoys me, why didn't GRRM give us Joeff, S.Clegane, Robb, Littlefinger or Stannis POV instead of the likes of Brienne and Sam?... I am quite bored by their storylines and don't feel attached to those characters at all. Even Sansa POV is boring me, I'd rather have Littlefinger's. Major players in the game like Varys and Littlefinger absolutely can not have a POV until later (if they ever have one) because too much of their true intentions and the plot itself would be revealed. As for Joff, he would be a pointless POV. You might as well get Ramsay while you're at it. Stannis would be too bland. Robb would have been cool but we didn't need the character development that was provided for the other POVs that needed it and plot development for that area was provided through Cat, Brienne, Arya and Jaime. As for Sandor... it could have been interesting to see his reasons for the way he treated the Stark females, but his character may have been ruined with a POV. | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
On August 13 2012 08:00 Stratos_speAr wrote: It would be difficult, but writing from the PoV of someone as bat-shit crazy as Joff would add to the book tremendously if it was done correctly. Also, I don't see how it would ruin anything if Littlefinger got a PoV. Littlefinger knows too much about too many people. Keep in mind that his plan to get Lysa to kill Jon Arryn basically set off the plot of the entire series. He is after something, and to reveal that gives away too much of future plot points. The same goes for Varys. A POV of one of these two characters would be fun to read, for sure, but in terms of storytelling you never want to let the reader get into the head of the puppetmaster; it's more engaging to find out the tidbits from Sansalayne and Tyrion and etc.'s interactions with them. edit: Also GRRM has said there will never be a LF/Varys POV, heh. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On August 13 2012 09:12 Kyuukyuu wrote: Littlefinger knows too much about too many people. Keep in mind that his plan to get Lysa to kill Jon Arryn basically set off the plot of the entire series. He is after something, and to reveal that gives away too much of future plot points. The same goes for Varys. A POV of one of these two characters would be fun to read, for sure, but in terms of storytelling you never want to let the reader get into the head of the puppetmaster; it's more engaging to find out the tidbits from Sansalayne and Tyrion and etc.'s interactions with them. edit: Also GRRM has said there will never be a LF/Varys POV, heh. What a dick. He tortures us with the likes of Cat and refuses to give us one of the two most interesting characters in the series.  | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On August 13 2012 09:16 Dosey wrote: What a dick. He tortures us with the likes of Cat and refuses to give us one of the two most interesting characters in the series. It'd be pretty pointless.... If we knew what Varys and Littlefinger knew throughout, there practically wouldn't be any surprises at all. We'd know about pretty much everything way ahead of time and just snooze through the entire series. GRRM isn't bad enough of a writer to remove every single surprise element from the series for no reason except that you'd think it'd be cool. Cat is pretty dead as well, so I doubt she'll have any more POVs. Brienne is a bit of a pain though, and has been fairly pointless so far to be quite honest. Personally my favourites have been Jon and Arya, and what really bothers me is that Arya got 4 chapters in total for the last two books... | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
On August 13 2012 09:54 Euronyme wrote: It'd be pretty pointless.... If we knew what Varys and Littlefinger knew throughout, there practically wouldn't be any surprises at all. We'd know about pretty much everything way ahead of time and just snooze through the entire series. GRRM isn't bad enough of a writer to remove every single surprise element from the series for no reason except that you'd think it'd be cool. Cat is pretty dead as well, so I doubt she'll have any more POVs. Brienne is a bit of a pain though, and has been fairly pointless so far to be quite honest. Personally my favourites have been Jon and Arya, and what really bothers me is that Arya got 4 chapters in total for the last two books... Yep, and one of them was "then she woke up blind lolol have fun waiting for the next book" | ||
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Irrelevant Label
United States596 Posts
The only way to do it is if one of the things it accomplishes is showing that the person in question is not actually a puppetmaster or in much control. We only got to into Melisandre's head because it turns out she doesn't actually know much about what is going on and is in a reactionary rather than puppetmaster state with a more or less constant panic trying to reconcile what she sees in her fires with trying to get Stannis to do what she thinks is supposed to happen. Similar could be said of Cersei though in her case we already knew she was more piece than player thanks to Tyrion. To use another tangent example of the effect this kind of thing has on storytelling, look at Faegon. A key, though subtle, reason to doubt the legitimacy of that whole little band is the 'Griff' POV where we see just how little he knows about this whole plot he is in the middle of and of his ward. It is about metagaming. The amount of information given to the reader has to be carefully regulated to allow plenty of speculation and little hints that may or may not be misleading and you can't just give the game away with too much information from too highly reliable sources or it is boring and pointless. | ||
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bonachon261
United States10 Posts
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