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[TV] The Walking Dead - Page 346

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Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-07 09:19:28
April 02 2013 22:44 GMT
#6901
Wow, that was bad both as a finale and as an episode.

Here's how I think things should have gone, if we follow the premise that we don't get to change who dies in Rick's group (I expected more people to die, but w/e):

1. The Governor/Milton/Andrea first scene stays mostly the same, except the Governor doesn't ask Milton to get the tools from the table for no good reason. He simply gives him a gun and tell hims to shoot Andrea. Milton turns, points the gun towards the Governor, shoots, and it turns out the gun is empty - the Governor expected him not to kill Andrea. We see the Governor is smiling; he takes his knife, kills Milton and leaves him to turn and eat Andrea, like in the episode [I changed the original knife to an empty gun because frankly if Milton had not telegraphed his blow from a mile away he could have had a shot at actually getting the knife into the governor's throat as soon as he received it - with my scenario, there would have been no chance of him killing the governor].

2. We see Rick's group preparing to leave. As the group is about to leave, they figure they might as well block some of the doors and open up others to walkers so that the Governor & his men lose more time making their assault and the group has more time to put some distance between their enemies and themselves. The first half of the group takes off (Herschel, Carol, Carl, Judith, Daryl, Beth & Michonne), while Rick, Glenn & Maggie stay behind to do this before joining up with the others. They park their car outside of the prison (or inside), ready to go.

3. The Governor and his men (except Tyreese and Sasha) arrive at the prison, blowing up the first towers. Rick, Glenn & Maggie realize that they're trapped. Fire is exchanged during the assault (the Governor & his men started using their weapons first). Rick kills Shumpert (Bowman) from a distance. Glenn, Maggie and him retreat inside the prison - Glenn tells them that he knows a way, since he's had time to look at some of the plans (or he has wandered around or something). He returns to being his "I'm good at doing runs" self, and guides them towards the escape at the back of the prison. At one point, Maggie saves him from a walker. At the same time, we see the Governor tell a few of his henchmen to try and go around the prison to block a possible escape.

4. Meanwhile, the rest of the group, parked some distance away, hears the assault happening. Daryl decides to go see what is going on. Michonne wants to go with him, but he tells her to wait with the others to help protect them.

5. Back at Woodbury, Andrea figured out for herself that she could use the tools on the table to free herself. She starts trying to get one with her feet, except this time she doesn't constantly stop to chat with Milton and reflect on her actions like a complete idiot.

6. Daryl reaches the prison gates, and sees the henchmen coming out of the main gates to try to go around the prison. He kills two like the badass that he is, and the remaining three or four are pinned down. The situation still gets a little hairy, and he backs into the forest without being seen.

7. In the forest, he crosses paths with Rick, Glenn & Maggie who have just escaped. They join up with the rest of the group. Since the car that they couldn't take was the one with most of the important supplies, they decide to make a run at Woodbury while the Governor is still busy attacking the prison and worrying they might be in the woods nearby.

8. Milton has turned, and the last thing we see from inside the room is Andrea freeing her right hand (not getting up and trying to free her second hand like they showed). The camera then films the door and we hear unclear shouts like in the episode.

9. The Governor and some his men are now going through some of the deeper parts of the prison, while others are still inspecting some of the cells. Some of the used baby supplies were left behind - one of the women and her husband see them and wonder aloud "they had a baby?". They are joined by a couple of women and another one or two guys (regular folks, not actual henchmen).

10. Rick's group reaches the outskirts of Woodbury. They split up, Michonne, Rick, Glenn, Maggie and Daryl going in while Carol, Herschel, Carl, Beth and Judith wait hidden some distance away (Carl is pissed at having to wait with the others). They use a backdoor entrance Sasha and Tyreese were not aware of/watching. They however get spotted by the kid with asthma (who appeared in one of the episodes a few weeks ago) who had also been left behind at woodbury as guard. He gets really scared and leaves the inside perimeter to avoid facing Rick & friends, and decides to hide temporarily in the forest.

11. Back at the prison, the Governor is back out on the front field, very angrily marching back towards the trucks in order to set up his troops to find if there's anyone in the nearby woods - as he is walking, the first woman who saw the baby supplies comes up to him and tells him about her discovery. The Governor answers that he doesn't care. She insists, and her and another woman tell him that perhaps there has been a misunderstanding and the group was just trying to defend itself and the baby. The Governor, visibly extremely pissed off, turns around and shoots them both in the head with his pistol, almost at point black. As her husband sees this from a few dozens meters back, he is in shock, shouts and starts shooting at the governor. Since Martinez is right next to the gov, although he is also in shock, he has to shoot back in order to not die, and the Governor ends up killing the rest of the civilians with his steyr aug. Martinez, another henchman (who reacted like Martinez) and him end up being the only survivors. Martinez and the other guy, although in shock, shot at the civilians themselves because they were at risk of getting killed with the Governor. They all start walking back towards a truck.

12. Rick, Daryl, Maggie, Glenn & Michonne start picking up the supplies they need when Rick & Glenn, scouting around, stumble across the room where the old & young are waiting with Sasha. They manage to make their peaceful intentions known and everyone starts settling down when suddenly Tyreese walks in and Sasha has to make him put down his weapon. They talk, Tyreese and Sasha realize that the Governor is the aggressor, and when Rick & Glenn ask where Andrea is, Tyreese and Sasha tell them she had left for the prison. Rick & Glenn answer that she has maybe been taken prisoner by the Governor, like Glenn and Maggie before her (Tyreese and Sasha are, again, shocked to learn this). They meet up with Daryl, Michonne and Maggie, and Michonne, Rick, Daryl and Tyreese go look for her.

13. Carol, Judith, Beth, Carl and Herschel find themselves surrounded by quite a few walkers and start killing them off to hold the position. Carl ends up a bit further away, and the kid with asthma who was hiding temporarily from woodbury stumbles upon him. Carl asks him to put down his weapon, but the kid is very confused/shocked, and answers "don't shoot, don't shoot, please" etc., while keeping his weapon in his hand BUT without aiming it at Carl in any way. He basically has his hands up somewhat but isn't dropping his weapon because he's completely lost/scared. Since he isn't actually laying down his weapon, Carl shoots him. Herschel sees the whole scene.

14. Michonne, Rick, Daryl and Tyreese find Andrea. The scene goes as it went in the episode, and Andrea commits suicide.

15. As they go back and join Maggie, Glenn and Sasha, they all hear the truck of the Governor coming back. As the truck stops a few dozen meters near the gates and as the Governor, Martinez and the henchman get out, the group shouts at them to put down their weapons. They refuse to comply and start shooting at Rick & co while moving behind the truck. The nameless henchman gets killed in the process, but the other two are still alive. Daryl starts doing a flanking maneuverer, but Martinez realizes him and the Governor have no chance of getting out of there alive, since they're pinned behind the truck, so he hits the Governor, thinks he's out, turns and shouts "I give up! I just knocked out the Governor" (or something less cheesy but along those lines). As he starts walking towards the gate with his hands in the air, he gets taken out by the Governor who has already woken up, badly bruised, and who shot him in the back. At this point, Daryl completes his flanking maneuverer, and just as the Governor turns towards him he shoots an arrow (or a bullet) which ends up going through the Governor's skull. While the rest of the group makes it to the truck we see Daryl looking at the dead Governor with a look that says "this is for my brother".

16. Unfortunately, the firefight has attracted a lot of walkers, so at this point the writers can end the episode different ways:

1) The group takes the Woodbury old & young to the prison like in the original episode
2) The group settles in Woodbury and defends it against the walkers.
3) There are too many walkers (let's say a herd has been attracted to woodbury like the one in the season 2 finale) and the group has to move, with the Woodbury population going their own way or following the group. If we want to force them to be on the move instead of going back to the prison, we can say that before his fight with the regular citizens the Governor blew up key portions of the prison which allowed walkers to completely re-take control of it.

17. The episode possibly ends with Herschel looking at Carl in a concerned way, to highlight that he knows the kid is changing in a bad way. Words really aren't necessary, but if the writers want Rick to know, Herschel talks to Rick. We end with a typical Rick line like "We have been through hell, but there's still hope for him and for us in this world"... or possibly with a line going in the opposite direction, like "this world is changing him and us... the fight is far from over". Something a bit less cheesy, you get the idea.


Ok, I went through this rather quickly so there are obviously some things that could very much be improved, but it really would not have been hard to make this a way better episode, even with conditions like the one that no-one in the group should die (except Andrea). With my scenario, we still get some good fire exchanges, Daryl gets to shine twice (and gets a sort of closure by shooting the governor), and the characters actually make some "normal" decisions (for example, instead of deciding to go after/attack the entire Woodbury population all alone like Rick, Daryl and Michonne did in the original episode before finding out pretty much everyone was dead, or instead of following the governor blindly for no reason at all like Martinze and Bowman did after the Gov was the only one to shoot everyone). What do you guys think? I don't think the Governor should have lived either - not only does him surviving leave a bad taste in our mouthes because we've all been anticipating a confrontation and his death has been a long time coming, it's also not necessary to still have the group under pressure from him: we've seen other groups pose a threat to Rick & friends in the past, the Governor doesn't have to be the only bad guy out there.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Ender985
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Spain910 Posts
April 02 2013 22:54 GMT
#6902
Good things about the finale: Andrea dies. And Carl is growing up not to make the same mistakes of his dad.
Bad things: Milton dies, he was one of the most interesting characters of the season, I was hoping he would survive.
Ugly things: About everything else. The whole attack to the prison and the subsequent civilian slaughter finalized by "we are the two only guys he did not shoot, he must really like us, lets go with him".. Made negative sense.

It's never been the great show this could have been. Episode 1 was really promising, the rest did not live up to expectations. Season 3 again was set up to be more interesting, but they botched it badly. I don't know how are they going to continue with season 4 to be honest.
Member of the Pirate Party - direct democracy, institutional transparency, and freedom of information
Blisse
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada3710 Posts
April 02 2013 23:46 GMT
#6903
Sup.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/04/01/the-walking-dead-robert-kirkman-season-3-finale/
There is no one like you in the universe.
TubbyIsAwesome
Profile Joined February 2011
United States161 Posts
April 03 2013 00:19 GMT
#6904
This show is dead to me, I won't be watching the next season. Onto Mad Men I guess.
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1707 Posts
April 03 2013 00:19 GMT
#6905
On April 03 2013 08:46 Blisse wrote:
Sup.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/04/01/the-walking-dead-robert-kirkman-season-3-finale/


thanks for this. lol at the last question of this interview - of course, there would be zombies in season 4. i can't imagine walking dead without zombies haha
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1707 Posts
April 03 2013 00:29 GMT
#6906
On April 03 2013 07:44 kwizach wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Wow, that was bad both as a finale and as an episode.

Here's how I think things should have gone, under the premises that we don't change who dies in Rick's group (I expected more people to die, but w/e):

1. The Governor/Milton/Andrea first scene stays mostly same, except the Governor doesn't ask Milton to get the tools from the table for no good reason. He simply gives him a gun and tell hims to shoot Andrea. Milton turns, points the gun towards the Governor, shoots, and it turns out the gun is empty - the Governor expected him not to kill Andrea. We see the Governor is smiling; he takes his knife, kills Milton and leaves him to turn and eat Andrea, like in the episode [I changed the initial knife to an empty gun because frankly if Milton had not telegraphed his blow from a mile away he could have had a shot at actually getting the knife to the governor's throat as soon as he received it - with my scenario, there would have been no chance of him killing the governor].

2. We see Rick's group preparing to leave. As the group is about to leave, they figure they might as well block some of the doors and open up others to walkers so that the Governor & his men lose more time making their assault and the group has more time to put some distance between their enemies and themselves. The first half of the group takes off (Herschel, Carol, Carl, Judith, Daryl, Beth & Michonne), while Rick, Glenn & Maggie stay behind to do this before joining up with the others. They park their car outside of the prison (or inside), ready to go.

3. The Governor and his men (except Tyreese and Sasha) arrive at the prison, blowing up the first towers. Rick, Glenn & Maggie realize that they're trapped. Fire is exchanged during the assault (the Governor & his men started using their weapons first). Rick kills Shumpert (Bowman) from a distance. Glenn, Maggie and him retreat through the prison - Glenn tells them that he knows a way, since he's had time to look at some of the plans (or he has wandered around or something). He returns to being his "I'm good at doing runs" self, and guides them towards the escape at the back of the prison. At one point, Maggie saves him from a walker. At the same time, we see the Governor tell a few of his henchmen to try and go around the prison to block a possible escape.

4. Meanwhile, the rest of the group, parked some distance away, hears the assault happening. Daryl decides to go see what is going on. Michonne wants to go with him, but he tells her to wait with the others to help protect them.

5. Back at Woodbury, Andrea figured out for herself that she could use the tools on the table to free herself. She starts trying to get one with her feet, except this time she doesn't constantly stop to chat with Milton and reflect on her actions like an idiot.

6. Daryl reaches the prison gates, and sees the henchmen coming out of the main gates to try to go around the prison. He kills two like the badass that he is, and the remaining ones (three or four) are pinned down. The situation still gets a little hairy, and he backs into the forest without being seen.

7. In the forest, he crosses paths with Rick, Glenn & Maggie who have just escaped. They join up with the rest of the group. Since the car that they couldn't take was the one with most of the important supplies, they decide to make a run at Woodbury while the Governor is still busy attacking the prison and worrying they might be in the woods nearby.

8. Milton has turned, and the last thing we see from inside the room is Andrea freeing her right hand (not getting up and trying to free her second hand like they showed). The camera then films the door and we hear unclear shouts like in the episode.

9. The Governor and some his men are now going through some of the deeper parts of the prison, while others are still inspecting some of the cells. Some of the used baby supplies were left behind - one of the women and her husband see them and wonder aloud "they had a baby?". They are joined by a couple of women and another one or two guys (regular folks, not actual henchmen).

10. Rick's group reaches the outskirts of Woodbury. They split up, Michonne, Rick, Glenn, Maggie and Daryl going in while Carol, Herschel, Carl, Beth and Judith wait hidden some distance away (Carl is pissed at having to wait with the others). They use a backdoor entrance Sasha and Tyreese were not aware of/watching. They however get spotted by the kid with asthma (who appeared in one of the episodes a few weeks ago) who had also been left behind at woodbury as guard. He gets really scared and leaves the inside perimeter to avoid facing Rick & friends, and decides to hide temporarily in the forest.

11. Back at the prison, the Governor is back out on the front field, very angrily marching back towards the trucks in order to set up his troops to find if there's anyone in the nearby woods - as he is walking, the first woman who saw the baby supplies comes up to him and tells him about her discovery. The Governor answers that he doesn't care. She insists, and her and another woman tell him that perhaps there has been a misunderstanding and the group was just trying to defend itself and the baby. The Governor turns around and shoots them both in the head with his pistol, almost at point black. As her husband sees this from a few dozens meters back, he is in shock, shouts and starts shooting at the governor. Since Martinez is right next to the gov, although he is also in shock, he has to shoot back in order to not die, and the Governor ends up killing the rest of the civilians with his steyr aug. Martinez, another henchman (who reacted like Martinez) and him end up being the only survivors. Martinez and the other guy, although in shock, shot at the civilians themselves because they were at risk of getting killed with the Governor. They all start walking back towards a truck.

12. Rick, Daryl, Maggie, Glenn & Michonne start picking up the supplies they need when Rick & Glenn, scouting around, stumble across the room where the old & young are waiting with Sasha. They manage to make their peaceful intentions known and everyone starts settling down when suddenly Tyreese walks in and Sasha has to make him put down his weapon. They talk, Tyreese and Sasha realize that the Governor is the aggressor, and when Rick & Glenn ask where Andrea is, Tyreese and Sasha tell them she had left for the prison. Rick & Glenn answer that she has maybe been taken prisoner by the Governor, like Glenn and Maggie before her (Tyreese and Sasha are, again, shocked to learn this). They meet up with Daryl, Michonne and Maggie, and Michonne, Rick, Daryl and Tyreese go look for her.

13. Carol, Judith, Beth, Carl and Herschel find themselves surrounded by quite a few walkers and start killing them off to hold the position. Carl ends up a bit further away, and the kid with asthma who was hiding temporarily from woodbury stumbles upon him. Carl asks him to put down his weapon, but the kid is very confused/shocked, and answers "don't shoot, don't shoot, please" etc., while keeping his weapon in his hand BUT without aiming it at Carl in any way. He basically has his hands up somewhat but isn't dropping his weapon because he's completely lost/scared. Like in the episode, since he isn't laying down his weapon, Carl shoots him. Herschel sees the whole scene.

14. Michonne, Rick, Daryl and Tyreese find Andrea. The scene goes as it went in the episode, and Andrea commits suicide.

15. As they go back and join Maggie, Glenn and Sasha, they all hear the truck of the Governor coming back. As the truck stops a few dozen meters near the gates and as the Governor, Martinez and the henchman get out, the group shouts at them to put down their weapons. They refuse to comply and start shooting at Rick & co while moving behind the truck. The henchman gets killed in the process, but the other two are still alive. Daryl starts doing a flanking maneuverer, but Martinez realizes him and the Governor have no chance of getting out of there alive, since they're pinned behind the truck, so he hits the Governor, thinks he's out, turns and shouts "I give up! I just knocked out the Governor" (or something less cheesy but along those lines). As he starts walking towards the gate with his hands in the air, he gets taken out by the Governor who has already woken up, badly bruised, and shot him in the back. At this point, Daryl completes his flanking maneuverer, and just as the Governor turns towards him he shoots an arrow (or a bullet) which ends up going through the Governor's brain. While the rest of the group makes it to the truck we see Daryl looking at the dead Governor with a look that says "this is for my brother".

16. Unfortunately, the firefight has attracted a lot of walkers, so at this point the writers can end the episode different ways:

1) The group takes the Woodbury old & young to the prison like in the original episode
2) The group settles in Woodbury and defends it against the walkers.
3) There are too many walkers (let's say a herd has been attracted to woodbury like the one in the season 2 finale) and the group has to move, with the Woodbury population going their own way or following the group. If we want to force them to be on the move instead of going back to the prison, we can say that the Governor blew up key portions of the prison which allowed walkers to completely re-take control of it.

17. The episode possibly ends with Herschel looking at Carl in a concerned way, to highlight that he knows the kid is changing in a bad way. Words really aren't necessary, but if the writers want Rick to know, Herschel talks to Rick. We end with a typical Rick line like "We have been through hell, but there's still hope for him and for us in this world"... or possibly with a line going in the opposite direction, like "this world is changing him and us... the fight is far from over". Something a bit less cheesy, you get the idea.


Ok, I went through this rather quickly so there are obviously some things that could very much be improved, but it really would not have been hard to make this a way better episode, even with conditions like the one that no-one in the group should die (except Andrea). With my scenario, we still get some good fire exchanges, Daryl gets to shine twice (and gets a sort of closure by shooting the governor), and the characters actually make some "normal" decisions (for example, instead of deciding to go after and attack the entire Woodbury population all alone (Rick, Daryl and Michonne), before finding out pretty much everyone is dead, or instead of following the governor blindly for no reason at all after he was the only one to shoot everyone). What do you guys think? I don't think the Governor should have lived either - not only does him surviving leave a bad taste in our moves because we've all been anticipating a confrontation and his death has been a long time coming, it's also not necessary to still have the group under pressure: we've seen other groups pose a threat to Rick & friends in the past, the Governor doesn't have to be the only bad guy out there.


i find your version interesting. i like your version but i like the tv show's finale too, not sure which one i like better but definitely the andrea-milton scene is frustrating but may be that was really the intention - to irritate the viewers hehe

overall, i still think that the finale is good. i'm actually happy that there's no huge battle between rick and the governor, but as what kwizach wrote, it could have been executed differently.

comic book spoiler here:
+ Show Spoiler +
the battle in the comic book was huge but the outcome was really disappointing since most of them died including lori and the baby. and that was such a downer when they built up the comic book on the lori's pregnancy with shane's child. and in the end, you will only see carl and rick escaping from the battle and the walkers and no one knows if the others were able to escape. that's why i'm happy how s3 ended because it was the other way around. it was the governor who ended up wandering around.
the hunters would be an interesting plot, i hope they bring them in s4.
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
Kevin_Sorbo
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada3217 Posts
April 03 2013 00:32 GMT
#6907
On April 03 2013 09:19 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
This show is dead to me, I won't be watching the next season. Onto Mad Men I guess.



my.exact.thoughts. + GOT made me forget about TWD finale lol.
The mind is like a parachute, it doesnt work unless its open. - Zappa
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
April 03 2013 02:50 GMT
#6908
So bear with me, because I'm kind of slow. From what I've heard, the comic book is great, and its scenario is great too. Then why didn't the TV show writers use the same story? I mean, you've got a good story here, why change it and make it worse?
o choro é livre
BananaJunkie
Profile Joined October 2011
Denmark119 Posts
April 03 2013 05:37 GMT
#6909
This might be kinda off topic, but i just found this dubstep remix of the main theme on youtube and wanted to share with you guys
Beer: The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.
Krohm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1857 Posts
April 03 2013 07:51 GMT
#6910
I've been trying so hard to put my thoughts about the season finale into words that don't sound like I'm just simply bitching. But that's really hard to do.

That was probably one of the most disappointing season finales I've ever watched. There was so much build up and we're given some shitty third-rate gun battle in the prison. I just loved how Maggie and Glenn unload into the governors troops while they're running but we don't see a single person die. Just completely ridiculous.

Lori's death was actually good too. I liked this part in Kirkman's interview:

"Your aim is to break fans’ hearts?
Well, we want people to be invested in these characters. We want every death to be as emotional as possible. When you see season 4 and you see how that death has affected Rick and how it’s changed all these characters and what’s come from that death, I think it will all make sense. But no deaths are decided upon flippantly."

OH REALLY? So you make everyone hate a character (Lori) before you decide to write her out of the show, yeah that's a great way to break the hearts of the fans. I was actually more disappointed to see Milton go. I feel his character had a lot of potential. The same way I felt about Axel.

I can somewhat understand that the writers don't want to copy the comics and to surprise fans with the outcomes but that only works if they produce good results. Which they haven't. A completely abysmal season finale, just as bad as Season 2's.

The only redeeming quality about this season is Carl.

Worst thing about it though is I'll probably watch season 4 just to hope it redeems itself. Just like I did with season 2. I am part of the problem.
Not bad for a cat toy.
Nekovivie
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2599 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 08:55:01
April 03 2013 08:40 GMT
#6911
What a boring finale.

No cliffhanger at all, and nothing really noteworthy happened in the episode. A few towns folk dying that haven't appeared before so nobody cares about? Cool.

Even the Andrea/Milton scene was predictable, but really dragged out. Sitting there looking/talking to him instead of reaching for the pliers was your typical TV character stupidity.

Also I was surprised why they didn't just lock the governors guys in the prison. We know they have the keys, could have solved that one pretty easily.

Why wouldnt Martinez and token black guy henchman just shoot the Governor when he went genocidal. Even if they're loyal to him, nobody would just shrug that off and get in his car afterwards.
If you are not supporting K-Pop you are hurting E-Sports.
ThomasjServo
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
15244 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-03 17:18:34
April 03 2013 16:04 GMT
#6912
On April 03 2013 11:50 Al Bundy wrote:
So bear with me, because I'm kind of slow. From what I've heard, the comic book is great, and its scenario is great too. Then why didn't the TV show writers use the same story? I mean, you've got a good story here, why change it and make it worse?

Much of the story of the book, the first compendium at least (as far as I am in the series), wouldn't translate well to television. Without giving away too much graphic novel means graphic in many senses that a direct port would be hard to follow, even on AMC.

Also I don't think this has been posted yet.

[image loading]
kaisen
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States601 Posts
April 04 2013 02:47 GMT
#6913
So in the end, Merle sacrificed himself for absolutely nothing. Nice try Merle, but no dice.

Is it just me or is this the most pointless finale ever? Nothing has been resolved. The Governor lives, they are still stuck in that broken down prison, and Woodbury is no more.
udgnim
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8024 Posts
April 04 2013 17:19 GMT
#6914
On April 04 2013 11:47 kaisen wrote:
So in the end, Merle sacrificed himself for absolutely nothing. Nice try Merle, but no dice.

Is it just me or is this the most pointless finale ever? Nothing has been resolved. The Governor lives, they are still stuck in that broken down prison, and Woodbury is no more.


Merle significantly weakened the Governor's trained & experienced military force resulting in the Governor using regular Woodbury citizens as part of his militia

I do agree with nothing being resolved though.

no idea why Rick brought all the non-threatening Woodbury citizens to the prison. if he wanted to take care of them, then the intelligent choice is to move into Woodbury where there is established infrastructure for housing and many other things.

I didn't really pay attention, but how did Rick & his crew fix the broken down doors & fences?

this was how I felt when Andrea died

E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally.
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
April 05 2013 19:17 GMT
#6915
Just watched the last 2 episodes, i enjoyed them alot. Some pointers

1) Fuck yeah, Merle.

2)Fuck yeah, annoying bitch is dead. I agree with a past post about she should have just died in the chair, the whole "oh no icant pick up pliers cus im r-tarded" was ridiculous, albeit somewhat believable after 2 days of beatings, sitting (you stiffen up alot like that) and starvation / dehydration - staring at milton and having 2 minute conversations with him was dumbfucked. It would also have been ALOT more "shocking" and fitting to open the door to find her still hooked up to the chair as a zombie.

3) Fucking carl so annoying, why wont that little shit just die. I am a teacher, and i want to punch this kid straight in his fucking face, actor or not. Yeah the kid was dodgy edging towards him with the gun like that, i expected him to try something before carl blew his head off. BUT THE WAY HE ACTS JUST MAKES ME WANT TO CURBSTOMP HIS TEETH OUT. /rage over.

4) TWD: Season 4: Helping old ladies cross the street.
Useless wet fish.
justsayinbro
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
307 Posts
April 06 2013 01:04 GMT
#6916
On April 04 2013 01:04 ThomasjServo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2013 11:50 Al Bundy wrote:
So bear with me, because I'm kind of slow. From what I've heard, the comic book is great, and its scenario is great too. Then why didn't the TV show writers use the same story? I mean, you've got a good story here, why change it and make it worse?

Much of the story of the book, the first compendium at least (as far as I am in the series), wouldn't translate well to television. Without giving away too much graphic novel means graphic in many senses that a direct port would be hard to follow, even on AMC.

Also I don't think this has been posted yet.

[image loading]

I think the bigger reason is because most of the characters die off in the comics and new ones keep getting introduced.
If they were to do that on the TV series there would be no character development, attachment, etc. and most characters that the viewers like would be pretty much all dead by now.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
April 06 2013 02:01 GMT
#6917
On April 03 2013 09:29 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2013 07:44 kwizach wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Wow, that was bad both as a finale and as an episode.

Here's how I think things should have gone, under the premises that we don't change who dies in Rick's group (I expected more people to die, but w/e):

1. The Governor/Milton/Andrea first scene stays mostly same, except the Governor doesn't ask Milton to get the tools from the table for no good reason. He simply gives him a gun and tell hims to shoot Andrea. Milton turns, points the gun towards the Governor, shoots, and it turns out the gun is empty - the Governor expected him not to kill Andrea. We see the Governor is smiling; he takes his knife, kills Milton and leaves him to turn and eat Andrea, like in the episode [I changed the initial knife to an empty gun because frankly if Milton had not telegraphed his blow from a mile away he could have had a shot at actually getting the knife to the governor's throat as soon as he received it - with my scenario, there would have been no chance of him killing the governor].

2. We see Rick's group preparing to leave. As the group is about to leave, they figure they might as well block some of the doors and open up others to walkers so that the Governor & his men lose more time making their assault and the group has more time to put some distance between their enemies and themselves. The first half of the group takes off (Herschel, Carol, Carl, Judith, Daryl, Beth & Michonne), while Rick, Glenn & Maggie stay behind to do this before joining up with the others. They park their car outside of the prison (or inside), ready to go.

3. The Governor and his men (except Tyreese and Sasha) arrive at the prison, blowing up the first towers. Rick, Glenn & Maggie realize that they're trapped. Fire is exchanged during the assault (the Governor & his men started using their weapons first). Rick kills Shumpert (Bowman) from a distance. Glenn, Maggie and him retreat through the prison - Glenn tells them that he knows a way, since he's had time to look at some of the plans (or he has wandered around or something). He returns to being his "I'm good at doing runs" self, and guides them towards the escape at the back of the prison. At one point, Maggie saves him from a walker. At the same time, we see the Governor tell a few of his henchmen to try and go around the prison to block a possible escape.

4. Meanwhile, the rest of the group, parked some distance away, hears the assault happening. Daryl decides to go see what is going on. Michonne wants to go with him, but he tells her to wait with the others to help protect them.

5. Back at Woodbury, Andrea figured out for herself that she could use the tools on the table to free herself. She starts trying to get one with her feet, except this time she doesn't constantly stop to chat with Milton and reflect on her actions like an idiot.

6. Daryl reaches the prison gates, and sees the henchmen coming out of the main gates to try to go around the prison. He kills two like the badass that he is, and the remaining ones (three or four) are pinned down. The situation still gets a little hairy, and he backs into the forest without being seen.

7. In the forest, he crosses paths with Rick, Glenn & Maggie who have just escaped. They join up with the rest of the group. Since the car that they couldn't take was the one with most of the important supplies, they decide to make a run at Woodbury while the Governor is still busy attacking the prison and worrying they might be in the woods nearby.

8. Milton has turned, and the last thing we see from inside the room is Andrea freeing her right hand (not getting up and trying to free her second hand like they showed). The camera then films the door and we hear unclear shouts like in the episode.

9. The Governor and some his men are now going through some of the deeper parts of the prison, while others are still inspecting some of the cells. Some of the used baby supplies were left behind - one of the women and her husband see them and wonder aloud "they had a baby?". They are joined by a couple of women and another one or two guys (regular folks, not actual henchmen).

10. Rick's group reaches the outskirts of Woodbury. They split up, Michonne, Rick, Glenn, Maggie and Daryl going in while Carol, Herschel, Carl, Beth and Judith wait hidden some distance away (Carl is pissed at having to wait with the others). They use a backdoor entrance Sasha and Tyreese were not aware of/watching. They however get spotted by the kid with asthma (who appeared in one of the episodes a few weeks ago) who had also been left behind at woodbury as guard. He gets really scared and leaves the inside perimeter to avoid facing Rick & friends, and decides to hide temporarily in the forest.

11. Back at the prison, the Governor is back out on the front field, very angrily marching back towards the trucks in order to set up his troops to find if there's anyone in the nearby woods - as he is walking, the first woman who saw the baby supplies comes up to him and tells him about her discovery. The Governor answers that he doesn't care. She insists, and her and another woman tell him that perhaps there has been a misunderstanding and the group was just trying to defend itself and the baby. The Governor turns around and shoots them both in the head with his pistol, almost at point black. As her husband sees this from a few dozens meters back, he is in shock, shouts and starts shooting at the governor. Since Martinez is right next to the gov, although he is also in shock, he has to shoot back in order to not die, and the Governor ends up killing the rest of the civilians with his steyr aug. Martinez, another henchman (who reacted like Martinez) and him end up being the only survivors. Martinez and the other guy, although in shock, shot at the civilians themselves because they were at risk of getting killed with the Governor. They all start walking back towards a truck.

12. Rick, Daryl, Maggie, Glenn & Michonne start picking up the supplies they need when Rick & Glenn, scouting around, stumble across the room where the old & young are waiting with Sasha. They manage to make their peaceful intentions known and everyone starts settling down when suddenly Tyreese walks in and Sasha has to make him put down his weapon. They talk, Tyreese and Sasha realize that the Governor is the aggressor, and when Rick & Glenn ask where Andrea is, Tyreese and Sasha tell them she had left for the prison. Rick & Glenn answer that she has maybe been taken prisoner by the Governor, like Glenn and Maggie before her (Tyreese and Sasha are, again, shocked to learn this). They meet up with Daryl, Michonne and Maggie, and Michonne, Rick, Daryl and Tyreese go look for her.

13. Carol, Judith, Beth, Carl and Herschel find themselves surrounded by quite a few walkers and start killing them off to hold the position. Carl ends up a bit further away, and the kid with asthma who was hiding temporarily from woodbury stumbles upon him. Carl asks him to put down his weapon, but the kid is very confused/shocked, and answers "don't shoot, don't shoot, please" etc., while keeping his weapon in his hand BUT without aiming it at Carl in any way. He basically has his hands up somewhat but isn't dropping his weapon because he's completely lost/scared. Like in the episode, since he isn't laying down his weapon, Carl shoots him. Herschel sees the whole scene.

14. Michonne, Rick, Daryl and Tyreese find Andrea. The scene goes as it went in the episode, and Andrea commits suicide.

15. As they go back and join Maggie, Glenn and Sasha, they all hear the truck of the Governor coming back. As the truck stops a few dozen meters near the gates and as the Governor, Martinez and the henchman get out, the group shouts at them to put down their weapons. They refuse to comply and start shooting at Rick & co while moving behind the truck. The henchman gets killed in the process, but the other two are still alive. Daryl starts doing a flanking maneuverer, but Martinez realizes him and the Governor have no chance of getting out of there alive, since they're pinned behind the truck, so he hits the Governor, thinks he's out, turns and shouts "I give up! I just knocked out the Governor" (or something less cheesy but along those lines). As he starts walking towards the gate with his hands in the air, he gets taken out by the Governor who has already woken up, badly bruised, and shot him in the back. At this point, Daryl completes his flanking maneuverer, and just as the Governor turns towards him he shoots an arrow (or a bullet) which ends up going through the Governor's brain. While the rest of the group makes it to the truck we see Daryl looking at the dead Governor with a look that says "this is for my brother".

16. Unfortunately, the firefight has attracted a lot of walkers, so at this point the writers can end the episode different ways:

1) The group takes the Woodbury old & young to the prison like in the original episode
2) The group settles in Woodbury and defends it against the walkers.
3) There are too many walkers (let's say a herd has been attracted to woodbury like the one in the season 2 finale) and the group has to move, with the Woodbury population going their own way or following the group. If we want to force them to be on the move instead of going back to the prison, we can say that the Governor blew up key portions of the prison which allowed walkers to completely re-take control of it.

17. The episode possibly ends with Herschel looking at Carl in a concerned way, to highlight that he knows the kid is changing in a bad way. Words really aren't necessary, but if the writers want Rick to know, Herschel talks to Rick. We end with a typical Rick line like "We have been through hell, but there's still hope for him and for us in this world"... or possibly with a line going in the opposite direction, like "this world is changing him and us... the fight is far from over". Something a bit less cheesy, you get the idea.


Ok, I went through this rather quickly so there are obviously some things that could very much be improved, but it really would not have been hard to make this a way better episode, even with conditions like the one that no-one in the group should die (except Andrea). With my scenario, we still get some good fire exchanges, Daryl gets to shine twice (and gets a sort of closure by shooting the governor), and the characters actually make some "normal" decisions (for example, instead of deciding to go after and attack the entire Woodbury population all alone (Rick, Daryl and Michonne), before finding out pretty much everyone is dead, or instead of following the governor blindly for no reason at all after he was the only one to shoot everyone). What do you guys think? I don't think the Governor should have lived either - not only does him surviving leave a bad taste in our moves because we've all been anticipating a confrontation and his death has been a long time coming, it's also not necessary to still have the group under pressure: we've seen other groups pose a threat to Rick & friends in the past, the Governor doesn't have to be the only bad guy out there.


i find your version interesting. i like your version but i like the tv show's finale too, not sure which one i like better but definitely the andrea-milton scene is frustrating but may be that was really the intention - to irritate the viewers hehe

overall, i still think that the finale is good. i'm actually happy that there's no huge battle between rick and the governor, but as what kwizach wrote, it could have been executed differently.

comic book spoiler here:
+ Show Spoiler +
the battle in the comic book was huge but the outcome was really disappointing since most of them died including lori and the baby. and that was such a downer when they built up the comic book on the lori's pregnancy with shane's child. and in the end, you will only see carl and rick escaping from the battle and the walkers and no one knows if the others were able to escape. that's why i'm happy how s3 ended because it was the other way around. it was the governor who ended up wandering around.
the hunters would be an interesting plot, i hope they bring them in s4.

Thanks for your reply!
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
April 06 2013 09:34 GMT
#6918
Carl... well, every show needs its Joffrey. Hate that kid. Why wont he freakin' die?
Terran forever | Maru hater forever
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3209 Posts
April 06 2013 10:06 GMT
#6919
Great Season! Episode with Merle is so great. Didn't expect Andrea dying. The fact that Governor is still alive is a little disturbing. Will he and his 2 buddies appear in the next season? Will Rick and co stay at the prison? If they stay, it will be so boring. I really liked the stories, like in the season 1, where Rick travelled, and the episode this season with Rick, Michonne and Carl.
But now there are too many people! Will it turn over into soap opera with zombies eventually? t_t
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
vidic07
Profile Joined April 2013
Vietnam9 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-18 01:37:19
April 06 2013 13:02 GMT
#6920
--- Nuked ---
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