Discussing the show and past episodes is fine. Do not put things that have happened in the TV series in spoilers. However, don't spoil things from the books that may happen in future episodes. Put book spoilers in spoiler tags with a CLEAR WARNING that it is from the book.
On March 19 2013 02:22 N.geNuity wrote: jesus zombie christ this episode was so fucking bad. I wish everyone would die in the main group and the show switches over to following tyrese's group (maybe have daryl/glen/maggie run away and live)
andrea is still worst character of all time, zombies apparently are vampires now and only fucking aim for the neck ("gee, holding up my leg and not kicking will save me!), zombies apparently single file walk around to alternate passage ways instead of clawing at a door when they can fucking see and smell a human right behind it (there is a broken window pane on the door, and obviously andrea just got all the attention by opening the fucking door), and that is all on top of andrea's great little "well I can walk freely in the prison field of zombies because I have a zombie on a leash, yup, not like I'm covered in guts or anything to mask my human scent. Just passing by zombies because another zombie is nearby, that makes a lot of fucking sense"
Like it's been soap opera farm -> soap opera prison/woodbury for season 2/season 3, and I'm not even going to start my full rants about how fucking dumb the characters are, but I do take undue pleasure in making fun of Andrea all the time. I will point out though I'm sick of the show trying to make Andrea be a leader/make right choices despite being straight up retarded.
Or as I put it in a different forum's walking dead thread, about the retardness of direct quotes (bolded): Milton: If you kill the governor, all that will happen is Martinez takes over and same thing happens. Killing him won't save your friends Andrea: *contemplatively thinks for a good few seconds*, "then I have to go back, warn them" Milton: *nods quickly and grunts* "yeah"
Why didn't Milton say "THAT'S WHAT I JUST GODFORSAKEN TOLD YOU, YOU DUMB BLONDE".
Andrea: "You come with me" Milton: "I can't leave woodbury, like it or not I belong here" Andrea: "Then if you stay, you can't keep looking the other way"
GEE, I WONDER WHAT HES DOING. TELLING YOU TO GO WARN YOUR DAMN FRIENDS TO LEAVE AFTER YOU NAIVELY BELIEVE YOUR FAUX NEGOTIATIONS ARE ON THE TABLE BECAUSE THEY'LL BE SLAUGHTERED. [note it's highly unlikely the main characters will be slaughtered]
milton is dumb and useless, but he directly tells you [andrea] that your attempted diplomatic solution failed, that your second plan to go guns a-blazing won't work, and critically thinks about the situation, tells the governor he needs to get over it, and then tells you [andrea] that you need to evacuate your friends, and you call that looking the other way?
Damn you so smart. Way too smart for this show. You have a keen eye for details. And the way you are able to express that in capslock form really makes your points shine through. I really wish I was as smart as you and would hate every episode and rage on the internet. I mean clearly how character b responded to character a, that was totally lyke, totally retarded.
See you next week.
so do you really disagree with anything he said or are you attempting to prove that pretending you're above discussion can easily be as obnoxious as a critical post? if it's the latter, well done. if it's the former and you can't be asked to elaborate, how do you not fall under the same net of negativity?
I, for one, disagree with a lot of what he said. Say, everything about Milton, for starters. He's one of the more interesting new characters this season.
"mildly annoying" is the understatement of the century. I also don't really see what productivity has to do with anything, threads like these are a net void in that respect regardless of whether they lean to the pro or the con.
I just don't see how andrea is defensible. she is a plot device, a supposed audience cipher and to be frank, an utter c-word of a character rolled into one ball of momentum suction. I've never seen a character in any work have more time and energy put into their depiction and have it do so little good to endear or explain who she is that wasn't trying to be an intentional anti-hero. the show very clearly wants us to take her seriously and it is just impossible when she is so consistently stupid and wrong and self-righteous. this is then compounded when she inexplicably becomes the impetus for most of this half-seasons plot; why would anyone then regard that plot as legitimate? it's all to get us to the last episode, no one is invested in telling this story as respectable art, so oh well, just invalidate an entire character and get us there, at least the decent AMC shows are coming along.
On March 19 2013 04:30 Conti wrote:
I, for one, disagree with a lot of what he said. Say, everything about Milton, for starters. He's one of the more interesting new characters this season.
there shouldn't be a milton character, it should just be andrea. audience recognition/stubbornness of andrea combined with the smarts/ability to recognize clear and present bullshit of milton = watchable andrea. instead it's two halves of a decent character both tasked with bringing down woodbury, and they're both obnoxious to watch for different reasons. I consistently fail to see the necessity of the last couple episodes where andrea is running around trying to keep the two camps appeased and similarly fail to see the necessity of the milton subplot in the first half-season because both of those motivations rely on the governor being rational when he is quite clearly crazypants, so why not just delete milton and have andrea getting suspicious and working against him much earlier and more subtly? maybe I'd have liked her then...
but please, don't let me hate too much on the far better alternative to andrea. a majority of the scenes last episode that contained milton were watchable.
I, for one, disagree with a lot of what he said. Say, everything about Milton, for starters. He's one of the more interesting new characters this season.
there shouldn't be a milton character, it should just be andrea. audience recognition/stubbornness of andrea combined with the smarts/ability to recognize clear and present bullshit of milton = watchable andrea. instead it's two halves of a decent character both tasked with bringing down woodbury, and they're both obnoxious to watch for different reasons.
but please, don't let me hate too much on the far better alternative to andrea. a majority of the scenes last episode that contained milton were watchable.
Really? You act like the writer's teacher. You criticize absolutely every detail you can find (like a teacher should), and now you point out which characters could be combined to streamline the story (again, a perfectly fine thing to do for a teacher). Do you really watch a show from that perspective? That would explain a lot.
Perfectly streamlined stories are just.. bland. I very much prefer an imperfect story that has something unique to it than a perfectly streamlined one. And as such, I really like that Milton exists, regardless of whether he needs to exist from a storyline perspective. All streamlining gets us is one token black character and one token redneck character and one token old-wise-guy character, so if another black or redneck or wise-guy character is introduced and established, we know for sure that his double (or he himself) will die very soon.
And how can't y'all not love the socially inept, helpless, slightly creepy guy who gets his priorities wrong all the time named Milton?
just saw the latest episode.....wtf did i just watch? nothing happened.....this episode was nothing but filler, it added absolutely nothing, this show can be good at times but at others it really blows.
The part at the end where after all the chasing when the governor caught Andrea right before Rick saw her made me rage.
It's the same rage in movies/shows when a character finds a dead body/important evidence but when the police gets there, it mysteriously disappears and no one believes them.
Anyway, this episode is so obvious they are just wasting time for the finale.
On March 19 2013 06:14 HeavenS wrote: just saw the latest episode.....wtf did i just watch? nothing happened.....this episode was nothing but filler, it added absolutely nothing, this show can be good at times but at others it really blows.
Other than the fact that Milton turned on the Governor and Andrea is now in a home-made torture chamber because she tried to run away for good. You can't possibly say this was a filler episode in any matter.
oh gee, I wasted five minutes of my life typing up a rant (yes, overboard) to complain about a show. I sure feel bad about that. People shouldn't quote my own wall of text though, if you want to quote it just quote the post and have a *snip* or something, but it's not like fan threads for things are ever really productive. I should have spoiled the post though, and give warning it was negative/not constructive.
Milton was good enough this episode, but its hard for me to like the seemingly "smart" socially inept guy when he thought voodoo circles would be a cure.
I am angry because I really liked the show in season 1 and even the start of season 3, and am upset that (I feel) it got worse and starts taking neater things from earlier season (eg rick covering himself in guts) and now lets people walk through field of zombies because 1 is on a leash. yes it's overly critical, harping on very small things, but small things are what makes a show/book/movie/whatever go from "I like it" to "I love it", and originally I really loved it (and I think I posted in this thread about that before at season 3, small things like carol practicing the c-section on a female zombie, etc).
*edit* and of course, it's not actually anger. it's internet anger.
I, for one, disagree with a lot of what he said. Say, everything about Milton, for starters. He's one of the more interesting new characters this season.
there shouldn't be a milton character, it should just be andrea. audience recognition/stubbornness of andrea combined with the smarts/ability to recognize clear and present bullshit of milton = watchable andrea. instead it's two halves of a decent character both tasked with bringing down woodbury, and they're both obnoxious to watch for different reasons.
but please, don't let me hate too much on the far better alternative to andrea. a majority of the scenes last episode that contained milton were watchable.
Really? You act like the writer's teacher. You criticize absolutely every detail you can find (like a teacher should), and now you point out which characters could be combined to streamline the story (again, a perfectly fine thing to do for a teacher). Do you really watch a show from that perspective? That would explain a lot.
Perfectly streamlined stories are just.. bland. I very much prefer an imperfect story that has something unique to it than a perfectly streamlined one. And as such, I really like that Milton exists, regardless of whether he needs to exist from a storyline perspective. All streamlining gets us is one token black character and one token redneck character and one token old-wise-guy character, so if another black or redneck or wise-guy character is introduced and established, we know for sure that his double (or he himself) will die very soon.
And how can't y'all not love the socially inept, helpless, slightly creepy guy who gets his priorities wrong all the time named Milton?
I think you're calling me pedantic in a roundabout way, and generally I'd have to agree but not about it being a mode that I'm rigorously applying to this TV show; no, the ruler and the red pen come out when really obvious errors in writing show, and I wouldn't really say I support streamlining any more than the writers sporadically do re: all of woodbury being comprised of one street and a 15-man group of extras, re: the TWD black actor's curse of exposition on death's door. it's not an absolutist stance, I have no problem with glenn and daryl being separate characters even though, from a script standpoint and how they generally relate to the main plot, they overlap quite a bit. it's only when I see absolutely no connection between the existence of milton and the necessity of milton that I start thinking about complete omission, because when you have two characters that are working towards the exact same goal, could serve the exact same position in the story/create a better composite by combining the two, and you have one whose only prior purpose was a fairly limp subplot about zombie experiments that could be easily folded into the governor's own work...why does milton exist? why couldn't andrea have been drawn that much closer to the governor's work in his place, maybe seen something in the fascism and the power that attracted her for half a season and right about now she starts working against him in earnest? I see no innate superiority in the plot we have where she's played like a fish, is moralistic and miserably indecisive by turns and everyone hates and fears her in response. essentially, her character has had a thin, protracted arc this season from useless and deceived to still fairly useless and now subservient; an arc where she has more power and is less stupid just to eventually turn, try to undermine the governor and fail semi-heroically seems pretty unobjectionable to me.
edit: I'm sure power-hungry andrea would still be quite unlikeable, but at least I'd hate her as a character and not her character, if that makes sense.
Wow, this was one of the worse episodes of Walking Dead so far. I don't even know where to start... so I will not waste more of my time, I wasted enough by watching it.
On March 19 2013 06:34 Shellebelles wrote: The part at the end where after all the chasing when the governor caught Andrea right before Rick saw her made me rage.
It's the same rage in movies/shows when a character finds a dead body/important evidence but when the police gets there, it mysteriously disappears and no one believes them.
Anyway, this episode is so obvious they are just wasting time for the finale.
What?! This was the only decent part of the entire episode. Rick noticed for a split second but thought it was just a hallucination, so disregarded it. I wonder if he will ever find out. Probably not.
Add that to the fact that, maybe, if Andrea was with them at the prison the whole time, his wife wouldn't have died and he wouldn't have become crazy, and would have been able to notice and rescue her. I don't know if it's exactly ironic per se, but it's definitely something interesting.
On March 19 2013 06:14 HeavenS wrote: just saw the latest episode.....wtf did i just watch? nothing happened.....this episode was nothing but filler, it added absolutely nothing, this show can be good at times but at others it really blows.
Other than the fact that Milton turned on the Governor and Andrea is now in a home-made torture chamber because she tried to run away for good. You can't possibly say this was a filler episode in any matter.
this was a filler episode in almost every matter (except noting that milton is slowly turning against the governor), and let me just say: filler episodes can still be good. the concept of a filler episode is to fill time, naturally, and elongating this conflict:
andrea is leaving. governor catches andrea, deposits her in rape dungeon.
to:
andrea is leaving. talks with milton and then tyreese. hops the wall. gets attacked by zombies while hiding from truck. governor chases her for twenty minutes in hackneyed homage to serial killer trope heritage. governor catches andrea, deposits her in rape dungeon.
is the very definition of filler. none of that in-between is vitally important to that particular event in the story. that doesn't mean it can't still be acceptable, it just wasn't because less andrea is much better at this point, especially when the casualty is for the governor to finally jump the shark into Camp with a capital C.
On March 19 2013 06:14 HeavenS wrote: just saw the latest episode.....wtf did i just watch? nothing happened.....this episode was nothing but filler, it added absolutely nothing, this show can be good at times but at others it really blows.
Other than the fact that Milton turned on the Governor and Andrea is now in a home-made torture chamber because she tried to run away for good. You can't possibly say this was a filler episode in any matter.
this was a filler episode in almost every matter (except noting that milton is slowly turning against the governor), and let me just say: filler episodes can still be good. the concept of a filler episode is to fill time, naturally, and elongating this conflict:
andrea is leaving. governor catches andrea, deposits her in rape dungeon.
to:
andrea is leaving. talks with milton and then tyreese. hops the wall. gets attacked by zombies while hiding from truck. governor chases her for twenty minutes in hackneyed homage to serial killer trope heritage. governor catches andrea, deposits her in rape dungeon.
is the very definition of filler. none of that in-between is vitally important to that particular event in the story. that doesn't mean it can't still be acceptable, it just wasn't because less andrea is much better at this point, especially when the casualty is for the governor to finally jump the shark into Camp with a capital C.
The purpose of filler is to put out new episodes so that the writers have more time to set-up the story and make episodes that actually advance the plot. Filler episodes are episodes that have nothing to do with the main story at all and are just there to waste time.
If the episode advances said plot, it is not filler. Plot was advanced no matter how boring you thought the episode was.
Regardless more could've happened this episode, I still enjoyed it more than some other episodes this season.
The scenes of the governor chasing Andrea were boring as hell. She evades the truck and gets surrounded by ~5 zombies that came out of nowhere. Somehow she gets free but then gets chased by the nonstop honking govenor. She escapes through the woods and hides inside a dark building where, of course, the governor finds her in a 5 minute psycho scene. Gladly she can trap him in a room with 10+ zombies and escape. Finnally arrived at the prison, just when she waves to show herself, the govenor (maybe his twin brother?) jumps out of the bushes. "Haha I knew you would come to this exact place".
The action is very flat and boring, the music doesn't make it less painful to watch. At least the chances are good the next episode will be better.
On March 19 2013 06:14 HeavenS wrote: just saw the latest episode.....wtf did i just watch? nothing happened.....this episode was nothing but filler, it added absolutely nothing, this show can be good at times but at others it really blows.
Other than the fact that Milton turned on the Governor and Andrea is now in a home-made torture chamber because she tried to run away for good. You can't possibly say this was a filler episode in any matter.
this was a filler episode in almost every matter (except noting that milton is slowly turning against the governor), and let me just say: filler episodes can still be good. the concept of a filler episode is to fill time, naturally, and elongating this conflict:
andrea is leaving. governor catches andrea, deposits her in rape dungeon.
to:
andrea is leaving. talks with milton and then tyreese. hops the wall. gets attacked by zombies while hiding from truck. governor chases her for twenty minutes in hackneyed homage to serial killer trope heritage. governor catches andrea, deposits her in rape dungeon.
is the very definition of filler. none of that in-between is vitally important to that particular event in the story. that doesn't mean it can't still be acceptable, it just wasn't because less andrea is much better at this point, especially when the casualty is for the governor to finally jump the shark into Camp with a capital C.
The purpose of filler is to put out new episodes so that the writers have more time to set-up the story and make episodes that actually advance the plot. Filler episodes are episodes that have nothing to do with the main story at all and are just there to waste time.
If the episode advances said plot, it is not filler. Plot was advanced no matter how boring you thought the episode was.
Regardless more could've happened this episode, I still enjoyed it more than some other episodes this season.
this is semantic like whoa (padding out a season vs. padding out an episode? tomato, tomahto to me) but at least we can agree that there's been worse this half-season. before friday the 13th part 8: governor goes to abandoned building, I was ready to declare this a solid, if unexceptional episode, but they simply spent far too much time on a tepid plot point.
I, for one, disagree with a lot of what he said. Say, everything about Milton, for starters. He's one of the more interesting new characters this season.
there shouldn't be a milton character, it should just be andrea. audience recognition/stubbornness of andrea combined with the smarts/ability to recognize clear and present bullshit of milton = watchable andrea. instead it's two halves of a decent character both tasked with bringing down woodbury, and they're both obnoxious to watch for different reasons.
but please, don't let me hate too much on the far better alternative to andrea. a majority of the scenes last episode that contained milton were watchable.
Really? You act like the writer's teacher. You criticize absolutely every detail you can find (like a teacher should), and now you point out which characters could be combined to streamline the story (again, a perfectly fine thing to do for a teacher). Do you really watch a show from that perspective? That would explain a lot.
Perfectly streamlined stories are just.. bland. I very much prefer an imperfect story that has something unique to it than a perfectly streamlined one. And as such, I really like that Milton exists, regardless of whether he needs to exist from a storyline perspective. All streamlining gets us is one token black character and one token redneck character and one token old-wise-guy character, so if another black or redneck or wise-guy character is introduced and established, we know for sure that his double (or he himself) will die very soon.
And how can't y'all not love the socially inept, helpless, slightly creepy guy who gets his priorities wrong all the time named Milton?
I think you're calling me pedantic in a roundabout way, and generally I'd have to agree but not about it being a mode that I'm rigorously applying to this TV show; no, the ruler and the red pen come out when really obvious errors in writing show, and I wouldn't really say I support streamlining any more than the writers sporadically do re: all of woodbury being comprised of one street and a 15-man group of extras, re: the TWD black actor's curse of exposition on death's door. it's not an absolutist stance, I have no problem with glenn and daryl being separate characters even though, from a script standpoint and how they generally relate to the main plot, they overlap quite a bit. it's only when I see absolutely no connection between the existence of milton and the necessity of milton that I start thinking about complete omission, because when you have two characters that are working towards the exact same goal, could serve the exact same position in the story/create a better composite by combining the two, and you have one whose only prior purpose was a fairly limp subplot about zombie experiments that could be easily folded into the governor's own work...why does milton exist? why couldn't andrea have been drawn that much closer to the governor's work in his place, maybe seen something in the fascism and the power that attracted her for half a season and right about now she starts working against him in earnest? I see no innate superiority in the plot we have where she's played like a fish, is moralistic and miserably indecisive by turns and everyone hates and fears her in response. essentially, her character has had a thin, protracted arc this season from useless and deceived to still fairly useless and now subservient; an arc where she has more power and is less stupid just to eventually turn, try to undermine the governor and fail semi-heroically seems pretty unobjectionable to me.
edit: I'm sure power-hungry andrea would still be quite unlikeable, but at least I'd hate her as a character and not her character, if that makes sense.
I'm not going to respond to this in great detail, because I'm really not into endlessly arguing all the details of everything. Especially not when I agree with half of what you're saying. But yes, I'm calling you pedantic.
I just think that people would enjoy shows (and books, and movies, etc.) a lot more if they wouldn't try to see at everything from a writer's perspective. Because most every show, book and movie is not perfect. Far from it. You can poke large holes into every story, even Breaking Bad, if you really want to. Or you can sit back and enjoy the show and acknowledge that it's all just some fantasy that doesn't try to be as realistic as possible.
I find the writing of TWD quite lacking, too. And I'm quite annoyed by Andrea's character as well. But the show is still fun enough to watch for me. When it stops being fun to watch, I'll sigh, write a post that the show sucks, and stop watching. If it remains fun to watch, I'll try to point out the good things in the show instead of trying to find as many reasons as possible for me to hate the show even more. Because that's just not a very constructive use of my time.
That tune the Governor Whistles is so simmilar to Zelda's lullaby. I thought I was the only one who thought this untill I searched up the tune on youtube. Check it out.
God. This was a terrible episode. What did we learn?
1. The governor has magic tracking skillz. 2. Andrea is too fucking stupid to steal a car when it is practically handed to her on a silver platter. 3. I dunno, because I fell asleep for most of what happened in the warehouse.
On March 19 2013 10:34 Acrofales wrote: God. This was a terrible episode. What did we learn?
1. The governor has magic tracking skillz. 2. Andrea is too fucking stupid to steal a car when it is practically handed to her on a silver platter. 3. I dunno, because I fell asleep for most of what happened in the warehouse.
What a waste of time.
He knew she was headed to the prison, and he knew where it was. Also I really doubt he's stupid enough to leave his keys in the truck. I don't think these are big plot holes.
lol, everyone in The Walking Dead universe good at being sneaky. First, Dale got killed by a ninja zombie who was smart enough to leave a half eaten cow to bait Dale. Second, a zombie was able to sneak up behind Andrea this episode to pin her to the tree while other zombies come to eat her. Lastly, the governor was able to find the exact area of where Andrea was near the outskirts of the prison. I know that the governor knows where the prison is located, but he was able to find her among all the foilage. Don't get me wrong, I love the show and the comics in general, but I chuckle a good number of times during this episode.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i50.tinypic.com/2meyekn.jpg)
