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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 16 2015 15:12 Slaughter wrote: They were both mentioned waaay before the Island arc when they made their 1st appearances. as a dead dude with a wierd legacy and some random dragon Gildartz saw once | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
On June 16 2015 15:14 Forikorder wrote: as a dead dude with a wierd legacy and some random dragon Gildartz saw once He was still relevant considering most of the baddies had some kind of connection to him (and for a while the audience was led to believe that he was possessing Jellal). and Gildartz didn't just see him once lol, that dragon mauled the fuck out of him or have you not looked closely at all the organs and body parts he is missing? | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 16 2015 15:17 Slaughter wrote: He was still relevant considering most of the baddies had some kind of connection to him (and for a while the audience was led to believe that he was possessing Jellal). and Gildartz didn't just see him once lol, that dragon mauled the fuck out of him or have you not looked closely at all the organs and body parts he is missing? he was still dead, and it was still a random dragon you still have a long way to go to prove we knew from then they were the final boss of the story | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 16 2015 15:12 Slaughter wrote: They were both mentioned waaay before the Island arc when they made their 1st appearances. But yea I do dislike reusing old characters. In FT's case its Jellal. Mashima really fucked his character over just to have en excuse to keep him around. He was soo cool once but as he is now he just brings himself down (and he drags Erza with him since Mashima has decided that they must have an angsty romance that no one needed or wanted). Acnologia was first mentioned by Gildarts at the beginning of the Tenrou Island arc as a matter of a fact. However that was 240 chapters and 5 years ago. And yeah not terribly happy about reusing Jellal. I'd go as far as saying that he was way cooler and never should have left Rave Master. On June 16 2015 15:19 Forikorder wrote: he was still dead, and it was still a random dragon you still have a long way to go to prove we knew from then they were the final boss of the story Let's take the end of the Tenrou Island arc by which point it was fairly obvious they'd be final bosses. That's still 200 chapters ago. We've known for a while. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 16 2015 15:20 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Acnologia was first mentioned by Gildarts at the beginning of the Tenrou Island arc as a matter of a fact. However that was 240 chapters and 5 years ago. And yeah not terribly happy about reusing Jellal. I'd go as far as saying that he was way cooler and never should have left Rave Master. it wasnt until the arc where we learn about aconologias past that we actually learned he had plot significance though, a final boss has to have plot significance so until then he was just a powerful dragon who fucked shit up when he crossed shits path still a long way from saying that weve known he was a final boss for a long time Rave master is a manga where we knew the end game from the start (though it did kinda shift around a bit) Fairy tail weve only jsut recently started to see how everythings gonna end | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 16 2015 15:42 Slaughter wrote: Isn't that the point? Like what has been said 200 chapters is a long time and both were foreshadowed even earlier in the series. Honestly when they name drop specific dark and powerful character names (even if it was supposed to be in the past) they almost always are going to be in the series as a boss at some point. In fact Zeref's name came up A LOT even in the early days. You don't throw out names like that and leave them as a vague past bad guy, there is no point. So FT builds it up 1st showing how artifacts of his are around then you have people acting in a cult like manner trying to replicate his magical tech. Then it introduces the dark guilds which all are committed in some manner of speaking to serving Zeref and ending with his demons that he created. sure Zeref you could have an argument if you wanted to try and make it but aconologia was just a random dragon and dont even try to fake it you know what he was nothing more then random at the start even though he thought of gildartz as nothing but a fart so saying that the end game and power levels was decided early on, is just a baseless assumption you are so desperately hooked on | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 16 2015 16:10 Slaughter wrote: You once again Forik, have missed the point entirely just so you can be difficult and argue things. what point? Acnologia has certainly never been shown as an "end boss", hell at his introduction we couldnt even say for certain he was A boss (sure he hurt gidlartz but hes a dragon so wouldnt be that wierd if he was on the dragonslayers side (which is actually kind of odd that the dragons are on the dragonslayers side)) he might have just been the edgy rebel ally whos kind of the on the fence of good and evil whos still a good friend to igneel and Zeref certianly theres foreshadowing there but hardly enough to show hes a certain end boss especially since there was foreshadowing hed end up as a good guy until more recent chapters showed he was doomed to be the final boss and from the start we had no idea that the dark guilds had any connection at all to Zeref (and its not that much of a connection really since one was working entirely on misinformation and the other was trying to kill him) so you can hardly say everything ended up pointing to him weve known for a long time its a big world and were now seeing a bit of how big it is yet your acting like theres some crazy power-scaling going on in the first place FT has always kicked the ass of everyone aside from a few specific elite of whatever faction is causing the most problems lately just because FT pulled a OP and use the latest chapters to showcase how badass everyone is after a time-skip training trip doesnt mean its becoming DBZ | ||
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abuse
Latvia1942 Posts
Except Serena, he looks kinda badass. Foreshadowing~ inb4 zeref joins the heavenly kings of ishgard.. =D also.. serioulsy, where the hell is gildarts. | ||
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Hyperbola
United States2547 Posts
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Racket
3023 Posts
On June 16 2015 16:20 Forikorder wrote: what point? Acnologia has certainly never been shown as an "end boss", hell at his introduction we couldnt even say for certain he was A boss (sure he hurt gidlartz but hes a dragon so wouldnt be that wierd if he was on the dragonslayers side (which is actually kind of odd that the dragons are on the dragonslayers side)) he might have just been the edgy rebel ally whos kind of the on the fence of good and evil whos still a good friend to igneel and Zeref certianly theres foreshadowing there but hardly enough to show hes a certain end boss especially since there was foreshadowing hed end up as a good guy until more recent chapters showed he was doomed to be the final boss and from the start we had no idea that the dark guilds had any connection at all to Zeref (and its not that much of a connection really since one was working entirely on misinformation and the other was trying to kill him) so you can hardly say everything ended up pointing to him weve known for a long time its a big world and were now seeing a bit of how big it is yet your acting like theres some crazy power-scaling going on in the first place FT has always kicked the ass of everyone aside from a few specific elite of whatever faction is causing the most problems lately just because FT pulled a OP and use the latest chapters to showcase how badass everyone is after a time-skip training trip doesnt mean its becoming DBZ I don't get what you are arguing about. I backtracked a lot and it seems to have no real origin, but if I may: "He who looks for an end-boss...", is forgetting that FT began with a girl, who met a guy with a bad reputation, who was looking for his father, which was a dragon that taught him magic. There was no end-boss from the beginning, and we learned about the world with the development of the main story, which is Natsu looking for Igneel, during this journey he crossed his path with many enemies until he found him just to lose him to Acnologia. So, next step in this story would be Natsu looking for revenge on Acnologia, but of course friendship comes first and they will be saving Makarov before that. Also, one thing that always happens in FT is side stories (quests and/or jobs) or stories introduced as such (for instance Zeref), interrupting/extending the logical path of the story (look for Igneel and currently avenge him), given that, Zeref will probably turn into the end-boss and Acnologia the one before him, not because they were so from the start but instead because Mashima want it that way. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
There was no end-boss from the beginning THANK YOU literally all ive been saying | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
No one was even contesting that point rofl. How could there be when Mashima only planned the series up until like the tower of heaven. It wasn't even what I was arguing for despite your best efforts to think that. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 16 2015 14:48 Slaughter wrote: FT has established who the big baddies are since forever ago. No one has been "the most powerful new villain". They were all literally cronies and Mashima very clearly laid out the hierarchy of the dark guilds early on so none of them has really been a surprise really. Notice how after wiping out the last of the true dark guilds the baddies that they destroyed after that was a Rolf stomp? Because FT has systematically taken down the higher tier dark guilds. There hasn't really been a parade of "most powerful guy eva!" because we all know its Zeref and the Dragon King and it has been that way since basically the start. If anything bringing in this other kingdom feels like a stall tactic because Mashima knows he has basically progressed through all the villians that were foreshadowed and apparently he isn't ready to end the series yet so off to play in a different country (while also probably getting another power up to beat Zeref). im sorry what have you not been arguing? | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
Yea notice how I was talking pure power, which they very clearly were legendary level figures in power. The whole argument was against Hyperbola asserting that FT was becoming DBZ like where new "most powerful villians eva!" show up every arc, which isn't true at all because A) post Tower of Heaven the dark guilds and their hierarchy was laid out when the guilds 1st came together to start making moves against the dark guilds (so we had a general idea of their power rankings) and B) we had a decent feeling for who were the top of the food chain when it came to power. Was it always set in stone that they would be the final bosses? No but what was clear was their power and influence in the world (and I would argue the fact that there was some connection to Zeref for the bad guys in almost every arc does point to him being a natural end point). | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On June 18 2015 14:22 Slaughter wrote: Yea notice how I was talking pure power, which they very clearly were legendary level figures in power. The whole argument was against Hyperbola asserting that FT was becoming DBZ like where new "most powerful villians eva!" show up every arc, which isn't true at all because A) post Tower of Heaven the dark guilds and their hierarchy was laid out when the guilds 1st came together to start making moves against the dark guilds (so we had a general idea of their power rankings) and B) we had a decent feeling for who were the top of the food chain when it came to power. Was it always set in stone that they would be the final bosses? No but what was clear was their power and influence in the world (and I would argue the fact that there was some connection to Zeref for the bad guys in almost every arc does point to him being a natural end point). oh come on we had no idea how powerful Zeref was at all theres no way you meant it in that way you straight said FT has established who the big baddies are since forever ago ... There hasn't really been a parade of "most powerful guy ave!" because we all know its Zeref and the Dragon King and it has been that way since basically the start so the big baddies (as in the FINAL BOSS) has been established, and Zeref and the Dragon King were established as the most powerful since basically the start the only way to view that argument is you saying that Zeref and Acnologia are the big baddies of FT (which they are) and it has been established since the start (which it wasnt) you can try to dodge now but your directly contradicting what you said earlier and the dark guilds had 3 equal guilds leading them so theres no ranking when A = B = C the dark guilds were a small part in a big world to say taht knowing what the 3 top dark guilds are shows the upper level of strength is ridiculous | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
I am not contradicting what I said at all, which is that FT has established those 2 as being the top dogs, and that they were established as such a long time ago (Zeref being earlier). It was very convenient for Mashima to pick and use Zeref as an end game boss because he had already tied him to so much shit already once he decided to continue FT beyond what he originally thought. On June 18 2015 14:32 Forikorder wrote: the dark guilds were a small part in a big world to say taht knowing what the 3 top dark guilds are shows the upper level of strength is ridiculous I don't even know what you mean by this. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
Some dude tries to kill all the guild masters very early on in the manga using something Zeref made. and didnt come close Demons from the book of Zeref. only Deloria was strong, Tartoras introduced only recently Most of the dark guilds had end goals that were Zeref related. 2. 2 dark guilds.both of them introduced recently. Plus IIRC they did not imply that the dark guilds were all equally powerful. the 3 guilds at the top (oracian seis, grimoire heart and tartaros) were implyd equals since they were all on top I don't even know what you mean by this. to say that because the 3 main dark guilds were stopped means that all the baddies are down is silly | ||
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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