EPT[DAC 2018] DAC Major - Playoffs Day 4 - Page 2
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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sunrazgriz
Vatican City State1573 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
the third uncontested rosh hurt vg so much | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
Though I think VG probably should have lost to TNC, though VG's high ground defense approach is still potent. | ||
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CxWiLL
China830 Posts
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
though the casters completely ignored it, they were constantly getting slightly more than vp shouldve given them. they shouldve been down 5k more going into the first hg push given the lineups | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:01 Orome wrote: this wasnt just about vgs hg defense making it close though the casters completely ignored it, they were constantly getting slightly more than vp shouldve given them. they shouldve been down 5k more going into the first hg push given the lineups VG is pretty good at finding some farm when they're stuck back within their Tier 2s. Lots of practice, I assume? | ||
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goody153
44252 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:06 Toadesstern wrote: I just don't see how this is a game where Vici got brooded. They had a midlane batrider. If that's not enough to win vs a brood then VP might as well just firstpick brood and nothing would have changed. It's not getting an awful lot better and Eleven losing the lane is just not something that should happen. Bat loses to brood on the landing stage Brood just runs away when he fireflies and broodlings eat bat alive without firefly .. Oil stacks do nothing to the brooflings Dunno what games you play where bat wins against brood without help lol | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:09 goody153 wrote: Bat loses to brood on the landing stage Brood just runs away when he fireflies and broodlings eat bat alive without firefly .. Oil stacks do nothing to the brooflings pretty sure you win if you skill flamebreak? At the very least you kill the broodlings | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:06 Toadesstern wrote: I just don't see how this is a game where Vici got brooded. They had a midlane batrider. If that's not enough to win vs a brood then VP might as well just firstpick brood and nothing would have changed. It's not getting an awful lot better and Eleven losing the lane is just not something that should happen. The Batrider vs Brood match is deceptively hard for Bat. The primary issue is that depending on the enemy 4 (and even with AA, you can get turned on with a support TP) you can't go max Napalm to harass Brood and maintain lane equilibrium. Meanwhile Brood can force out Firefly without any repercussion, which means you're done in the lane until it's off CD and he can push into the tower. On April 06 2018 12:11 Toadesstern wrote: pretty sure you win if you skill flamebreak? At the very least you kill the broodlings No, because Brood can dodge the projectile at range and you can't set up kill conditions without leveled-up Napalm stacks. He'll just heal up with the webs and dive back in. Additionally, you're crippling yourself when the laning stage ends. | ||
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:11 CosmicSpiral wrote: The Batrider vs Brood match is deceptively hard for Bat. The primary issue is that depending on the enemy 4, you can't go max Napalm to harass Brood and maintain lane equilibrium. Meanwhile Brood can force out Firefly without any repercussion, which means you're done in the lane until it's off CD and he can push into the tower. No, because Brood can dodge the projectile at range and you can't set up kill conditions without leveled-up Napalm stacks. He'll just heal up with the webs and dive back in. Additionally, you're crippling yourself when the laning stage ends. you don't need to hit the brood. Goody said you can't kill the broodlings because they'll just run away. So we're not talking about some long range flamebreak but situations where the spiderlings are literally next to you and attacking you right now. You turn on firefly, you flamebreak and you get money. The alternative, not leveling it at all is what happened in this game (and swindlez also criticized during the game): you pop firefly, broodlings just run away, you can't follow quickly enough and then you're without firefly for the next couple seconds and just die (or get pushed out of the lane). | ||
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goody153
44252 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:16 Toadesstern wrote: you don't need to hit the brood. Goody said you can't kill the broodlings because they'll just run away. So we're not talking about some long range flamebreak but situations where the spiderlings are literally next to you and attacking you right now. You turn on firefly, you flamebreak and you get money. The alternative, not leveling it at all is what happened in this game (and swindlez also criticized during the game): you pop firefly, broodlings just run away, you can't follow quickly enough and then you're without firefly for the next couple seconds and just die (or get pushed out of the lane). Pro players won't fall for that and you're also upgrading flamebreak lol(nobody wants to upgrade that skill till later) Even if that happens somehow you still take shit ton of damage as bat of brood suicides the broodlings and after that you are in a downtime doing nothing cause brood can just run into you Have you seen fata bat vs matu brood ? It has nothing to do with matu being the better laner but just a really hard lane for fata If you want a hero that doesn't get wrecked by brood landing stage then timber. Batrider is a deadlane | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I mean while not a statement on the 1v1 or how the lanes would go, Brood is literally the worst hero in the game vs Bat according to dotabuff. Which again, isn't a statement on the 1v1 situation but rather on the situation of the game overall (as well as generally random pubs) but come on. | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
What are you going to do when the brood player split up the broodlings into 2 groups so that they don't eat flamebreak all at once? Brood doesn't need many broodlings, he just need enough broodlings to tank tower hits so he can dive and chase you out of the lane. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:27 babysimba wrote: If flamebreak is that strong, bat players would be leveling that up even in other matchups already. What are you going to do when the brood player split up the broodlings into 2 groups so that they don't eat flamebreak all at once? Brood doesn't need many broodlings, he just need enough broodlings to tank tower hits so he can dive and chase you out of the lane. well, let's just agree to disagree I guess. Swindlez literally said the same I said in here but maybe he's wrong as well | ||
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goody153
44252 Posts
Flamebreak is a shit skill unless you upgrade it which would mean you don't upgrade firefly and oil(you're the worst batrider in the game that time if you die) lol. I don't think flamebreak even kills the broodlings cause most nukes don't actually kill broodlings who deal more damage than flamebreak And that assumption is even assuming that bat is invincible and won't die to massive damage that brood can deal which is why he wins most midlane matchup | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 06 2018 12:16 Toadesstern wrote: you don't need to hit the brood. Goody said you can't kill the broodlings because they'll just run away. So we're not talking about some long range flamebreak but situations where the spiderlings are literally next to you and attacking you right now. You turn on firefly, you flamebreak and you get money. Spiderlings have 250 health and 50% magic resistance. They also gain regen from webs. The only way Bat can guarantee kills on Spiderlings is if he goes for something like 1/2/2. This is decent against the summons and horrible against Brood. It's also complete trash when he goes to rotate, so no Bat player worth his salt is going to sacrifice his jungle farm and gank potential for the chance to kill Spiderlings. On April 06 2018 12:29 Toadesstern wrote: well, let's just agree to disagree I guess. Swindlez literally said the same I said in here but maybe he's wrong as well No. Swindlezz said Eleven should've maxed Napalm instead of Firefly (which is the correct skill build) and avoided Tranquils. | ||
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