On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
In 2014, the team got to third without Fear, Aui, and Sumail against higher Chinese competition. It's pretty obvious that these three are capable of being replaced in play, though with Fear, his experience is not, which is why he was in the team even when he wasn't able to play. The other two players, especially PPD, are not.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
To be fair there previous teams also didn't achieve anything before EG.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
This is a hell of a statement to unpack so I'll just say this: very high is different from #1, but not as different as these two players. Sports are played by people, not numbers. Swapping EE and Fear at some unidentified point would make huge differences on their teams. Refusing to acknowledge that is refusing to take the human aspect of competition seriously.
But that said I highly doubt EG would recruit EE now. My guess is that Arteezy will go back, in which case there is no space, and if Arteezy doesn't go back then I don't think it's that far fetched to have EE and Arteezy in the same team together. I think EE might even prefer that option. In addition I don't know how the EG guys really feel about EE as a teammate. Aui especially has a long history with EE, which recent performances aside will probably put him higher or lower in their list of potential replacements.
I would be pretty surprised if either Arteezy or EE end up back with PPD, and a little surprised if they end up together, depending on how Arteezy is viewing his career right now. Frankly, taking Arteezy back would be bad for him. He needs to live with the decision he made and come to understand just how hard all of this is to make work. And for PPD, does Mike Shanahan take Clinton Portis back? No. Shanahan was massively disrespected as a coach by a kid who thought he was just too good and cool for everything. If you're PPD and bent on showing the world that you're the best captain you replace Fear with someone who might be a superstar, not someone who is one in their own mind.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
No one is saying Fear is the best carry in the world. We're saying what he brings was crucial to EG's success, and there's almost no one else who can bring it.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
Carry player does not equal to -> win the game when your team is shit i.e actually carrying the game .... he is Position 1 player. the myth of that "Carry" name is from pubs or cast hype.
where was universe and aui on dignitas or whatever ? man you are just trippin now..... you can say what you say about fear "failures" with previous roster on EVERY player who ever played dota (like - where is RTZ now?!?!)
The point I was making that EE cannot replace Fear , you saying that sumail is irreplacable but Fear is .... they randomed sumail from NEL cuz RTZ and Zai left , HE IS the one who got lucky to have a chance to play with EG , did he preformed amazing , sure , but dont say he cant be replaced cuz he most def can be.....
There isnt 1 player that makes a team but there is 1 player that can break a team, Dota its a team game you need the team to gel , you need the players to commuincate and be able to play the team playstyle that the captain dictates , you need to adjust to patches and meta , all of the above Fear does much better then EE , Fear can be replaced by other players of course , but not EE......
But that said I highly doubt EG would recruit EE now. My guess is that Arteezy will go back, in which case there is no space, and if Arteezy doesn't go back then I don't think it's that far fetched to have EE and Arteezy in the same team together. I think EE might even prefer that option. In addition I don't know how the EG guys really feel about EE as a teammate. Aui especially has a long history with EE, which recent performances aside will probably put him higher or lower in their list of potential replacements.
I would be pretty surprised if either Arteezy or EE end up back with PPD, and a little surprised if they end up together, depending on how Arteezy is viewing his career right now. Frankly, taking Arteezy back would be bad for him. He needs to live with the decision he made and come to understand just how hard all of this is to make work. And for PPD, does Mike Shanahan take Clinton Portis back? No. Shanahan was massively disrespected as a coach by a kid who thought he was just too good and cool for everything. If you're PPD and bent on showing the world that you're the best captain you replace Fear with someone who might be a superstar, not someone who is one in their own mind.
I agree that it's certainly possible PPD just doesn't want to play with Arteezy. It's just my impression that Arteezy may want to go back after his excursion in Secret, and I don't really see clear direct replacements for Fear elsewhere either. But I don't know all the younger NA players that closely, maybe EG will just look to recruit a newer guy.
But in the case where Arteezy doesn't join EG, where would he then go? It seems he wants to part ways with at least some players from Secret. And after that in the west it's pretty much c9 guys that come up next on the list among people who to team up with, and as far as I'm aware his experiences of playing with EE are very good, though of course from 2 years back already. That's why I don't think Arteezy and EE on the same team is all that far fetched.
But that said I highly doubt EG would recruit EE now. My guess is that Arteezy will go back, in which case there is no space, and if Arteezy doesn't go back then I don't think it's that far fetched to have EE and Arteezy in the same team together. I think EE might even prefer that option. In addition I don't know how the EG guys really feel about EE as a teammate. Aui especially has a long history with EE, which recent performances aside will probably put him higher or lower in their list of potential replacements.
I would be pretty surprised if either Arteezy or EE end up back with PPD, and a little surprised if they end up together, depending on how Arteezy is viewing his career right now. Frankly, taking Arteezy back would be bad for him. He needs to live with the decision he made and come to understand just how hard all of this is to make work. And for PPD, does Mike Shanahan take Clinton Portis back? No. Shanahan was massively disrespected as a coach by a kid who thought he was just too good and cool for everything. If you're PPD and bent on showing the world that you're the best captain you replace Fear with someone who might be a superstar, not someone who is one in their own mind.
I agree that it's certainly possible PPD just doesn't want to play with Arteezy. It's just my impression that Arteezy may want to go back after his excursion in Secret, and I don't really see clear direct replacements for Fear elsewhere either. But I don't know all the younger NA players that closely, maybe EG will just look to recruit a newer guy.
But in the case where Arteezy doesn't join EG, where would he then go? It seems he wants to part ways with at least some players from Secret. And after that in the west it's pretty much c9 guys that come up next on the list among people who to team up with, and as far as I'm aware his experiences of playing with EE are very good, though of course from 2 years back already. That's why I don't think Arteezy and EE on the same team is all that far fetched.
But that said I highly doubt EG would recruit EE now. My guess is that Arteezy will go back, in which case there is no space, and if Arteezy doesn't go back then I don't think it's that far fetched to have EE and Arteezy in the same team together. I think EE might even prefer that option. In addition I don't know how the EG guys really feel about EE as a teammate. Aui especially has a long history with EE, which recent performances aside will probably put him higher or lower in their list of potential replacements.
I would be pretty surprised if either Arteezy or EE end up back with PPD, and a little surprised if they end up together, depending on how Arteezy is viewing his career right now. Frankly, taking Arteezy back would be bad for him. He needs to live with the decision he made and come to understand just how hard all of this is to make work. And for PPD, does Mike Shanahan take Clinton Portis back? No. Shanahan was massively disrespected as a coach by a kid who thought he was just too good and cool for everything. If you're PPD and bent on showing the world that you're the best captain you replace Fear with someone who might be a superstar, not someone who is one in their own mind.
I agree that it's certainly possible PPD just doesn't want to play with Arteezy. It's just my impression that Arteezy may want to go back after his excursion in Secret, and I don't really see clear direct replacements for Fear elsewhere either. But I don't know all the younger NA players that closely, maybe EG will just look to recruit a newer guy.
But in the case where Arteezy doesn't join EG, where would he then go? It seems he wants to part ways with at least some players from Secret. And after that in the west it's pretty much c9 guys that come up next on the list among people who to team up with, and as far as I'm aware his experiences of playing with EE are very good, though of course from 2 years back already. That's why I don't think Arteezy and EE on the same team is all that far fetched.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
Carry player does not equal to -> win the game when your team is shit i.e actually carrying the game .... he is Position 1 player. the myth of that "Carry" name is from pubs or cast hype.
where was universe and aui on dignitas or whatever ? man you are just trippin now..... you can say what you say about fear "failures" with previous roster on EVERY player who ever played dota (like - where is RTZ now?!?!)
The point I was making that EE cannot replace Fear , you saying that sumail is irreplacable but Fear is .... they randomed sumail from NEL cuz RTZ and Zai left , HE IS the one who got lucky to have a chance to play with EG , did he preformed amazing , sure , but dont say he cant be replaced cuz he most def can be.....
There isnt 1 player that makes a team but there is 1 player that can break a team, Dota its a team game you need the team to gel , you need the players to commuincate and be able to play the team playstyle that the captain dictates , you need to adjust to patches and meta , all of the above Fear does much better then EE , Fear can be replaced by other players of course , but not EE......
3rd place in TI4 with MASON of all people as the carry. Fear is good, but he isn't suma1l or RTZ level.
And the last paragraph is pretty much just EE hate on not based on any actual facts.
No one is saying Fear is the best carry in the world. We're saying what he brings was crucial to EG's success, and there's almost no one else who can bring it.
Mason almost did last year.
My only argument is that if Fear was to be replaced by EE, the team would stay marginally the same, or bit worse.
Well gameplay aside, what FHDH said is right, you don't just replace the player but the person. For example, had Sumail come in to a dysfunctional team when he joined with some other carry player clashing with PPD, would he have developed and performed as well as he did? Or similarly now if they change a player, how will the team atmosphere change and how will it affect their results longer term?
This is very hard to know in general, but even harder without knowing the players really or without being their teammate. That's why it's a bit tricky to claim that someone can be straight up replaced with ease. Though of course these discussions hardly take this into account at all, and instead concentrate on "player x gets caught out way too much!".
No one is saying Fear is the best carry in the world. We're saying what he brings was crucial to EG's success, and there's almost no one else who can bring it.
Mason almost did last year.
My only argument is that if Fear was to be replaced by EE, the team would stay marginally the same, or bit worse.
There are only two players who were on that run who were on this one. Context matters a lot.
On August 11 2015 04:25 spudde123 wrote: Well gameplay aside, what FHDH said is right, you don't just replace the player but the person. For example, had Sumail come in to a dysfunctional team when he joined with some other carry player clashing with PPD, would he have developed and performed as well as he did? Or similarly now if they change a player, how will the team atmosphere change and how will it affect their results longer term?
This is very hard to know in general, but even harder without knowing the players really or without being their teammate. That's why it's a bit tricky to claim that someone can be straight up replaced with ease. Though of course these discussions hardly take this into account at all, and instead concentrate on "player x gets caught out way too much!".
Of course it's very hard to measure team cohesion.
EE could very well join EG and the team crashes and burns. But joins another and does well.
But one of the posters here was making arguments that fear > EE because fear joins teamfights! And gave an example of fear coming in with a gyro call down! If you actually just looked at it from a carry perspective, last hit, farming ability, hero pool, EE is up there.
On August 11 2015 01:29 BlueSpace wrote: I think TI this year was overall very close. EG went 3-3 against CDEC in the main event. This could have basically gone the other way. They beat CDEC in groups, but that was with Techies. The reason I bring that up is because I think people overvalue the winning team after every TI. This is also the reason why people are every year disappointed, that the champions are quickly beaten. Fear is an ok carry player, who has a wide pool. That doesn't make him irreplaceable.
The team you're talking about has won not just the biggest tournament in 2015 but also the second biggest tournament in 2015. They are worth being called the best team of 2015, along with Secret. The difference between these two teams, in results, is that PPD's team shows up in big events, while Secret shows up in smaller ones.
In fact, they're the first team that, after winning a millions dollars tournament, didn't lose the next millions dollars tournament they went to. Every other team - Natus Vincere, IG, Alliance, and Newbee - failed after the first win.
While their record against CDEC is even, you need to take into account the order of the results. Otherwise, it fails to show what makes the team so excellent: the fact that they improve over a tournament, especially after losing. Thus, they lost two games against CDEC the first time through, but the second time, they won three games, and lost only one. That is what makes them such a top team.
That is all besides the point. They won TI. I just said that it was close and this is especially apparent by the fact that the order of the games matter.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
This is actually hilariously wrong. Back in the era of Demon/Jeyo/Bamboe EG, Fear was easily the best player on the team. He played carry some games, and even managed to carry so hard that they won despite Jimmy's best efforts to throw.
Please go watch some of his old, pre-TI3 games with Alch before you say anything like that again. Fact of the matter is, even when Fear played absolutely out of his mind, he couldn't carry the weight of those three players. I'd like to see anyone, let it be RTZ or Aggressif or whoever else, manage to succeed under those circumstances.
On August 11 2015 03:47 Azarkon wrote: In 2014, the team got to third without Fear, Aui, and Sumail against higher Chinese competition. It's pretty obvious that these three are capable of being replaced in play, though with Fear, his experience is not, which is why he was in the team even when he wasn't able to play. The other two players, especially PPD, are not.
TBH I think EG could have won that TI if they didn't rule out playing DP on Arteezy feeding on it in 1 scrim.
PPD saw more success this TI because ultimately he got to draft what he wanted and his players trusted him 100% on it. Conversely, Secret seemed to have had a total communication breakdown. You could argue that they were already having trust issues at the point where they stopped letting Puppey draft.
Given this, I have to question what Arteezy is like as a teammate when playing for two of the greatest drafters the game of DotA has ever seen has both times resulted in him having a different vision of the game from them and ultimately having a falling out.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
This is actually hilariously wrong. Back in the era of Demon/Jeyo/Bamboe EG, Fear was easily the best player on the team. He played carry some games, and even managed to carry so hard that they won despite Jimmy's best efforts to throw.
Please go watch some of his old, pre-TI3 games with Alch before you say anything like that again. Fact of the matter is, even when Fear played absolutely out of his mind, he couldn't carry the weight of those three players. I'd like to see anyone, let it be RTZ or Aggressif or whoever else, manage to succeed under those circumstances.
You made my point.
Those teams accomplished nothing regardless of how good Fear was.
C9 did very well relatively despite how horrid pieliedie would play and how useless bone7 was in many tournaments.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
This is actually hilariously wrong. Back in the era of Demon/Jeyo/Bamboe EG, Fear was easily the best player on the team. He played carry some games, and even managed to carry so hard that they won despite Jimmy's best efforts to throw.
Please go watch some of his old, pre-TI3 games with Alch before you say anything like that again. Fact of the matter is, even when Fear played absolutely out of his mind, he couldn't carry the weight of those three players. I'd like to see anyone, let it be RTZ or Aggressif or whoever else, manage to succeed under those circumstances.
You made my point.
Those teams accomplished nothing regardless of how good Fear was.
C9 did very well relatively despite how horrid pieliedie would play and how useless bone7 was in many tournaments.
If you are calling PLD and Bone7 bad, you clearly have never seen the three I mentioned playing.
Talking about PLD always brings one game to my mind. Perfect commentary to accompany the moment.
Funnily enough n0tail seemed to take PLD's old mantle of constantly feeding first blood in completely inexplainable fashion. Like there would be times where he would go in first for the 0 min rune when he sees an Earthshaker setting up a Fissure to split him off from his team, or he would go alone to challenge a pull in a dual offlane only to get sandwiched.
On August 10 2015 00:33 ref4 wrote: oh man that rosh move was so obvious and it cost CDEC the game. Congraz to EG!
Now that EG has won it all, I wondered how long till the TI winner curse kicks in and all the EG boys fade into obscurity. 3 months? 5 months? Until the next TI?
If Fear retires that is a pretty big loss - there's no one else who could easily replace him with as much hero flexibility as Fear has.
Honestly if they keep the other four though they should be contenders at next TI though. Having the best mid in the world (and one of the best offlaners) makes them extremely tough to play against.
I know a lot of EG fans hate EE but they play very similar heroes.
Gyro, AM, PL, Clinx are all heroes EE is very good at. Hero pool is about the same.
So what ? you listed the most popular heroes in ANY carry arsenal , who doesn't play Gyro/PL/AM? they are the most popular carry heroes of the last couple of years (AM is been there forever) , EE is not close to fear level , he takes bad fights , he farms where he shouldn't , he gets picked off too many times , he doesn't join fights when he needs too (see Fear coming mid several times vs CDEC to win them the game) , Fear had the lowest death count in TI , he got amazing map awareness and plays great in an even and from ahead and rarely makes mistakes , not to mention he brings leadership to the team and not a cancer attitude like EE , the great players bring that to a team , EE is not even close to that level , sorry. Fear >>>> EE as a Pro DOTA player.
Fear is great no doubt, but the arguments being made against EE as a replacement is weak.
If you switched Fear with EE, C9 would not place higher than they did, and EG with EE would still place very high.
No doubt you are wrong Fear wouldve helped C9 to be placed higher , but as your claim is fantasy gaming i cant refute it , i will say that WATCHING EE play i can tell he makes x10 more mistakes , he doesnt lead the team and he looks much worse of a player , to your logic , i can replace EE with lets say Ildan and it will be the same result ? do you think EE is a better carry then Ilidan ? the top pro players have similar skill set what sets them apart are the little things , and in that EE is tier 2 , if it wasnt clear I dont rate him as Tier 1 carry at all nor should anyone who follow the pro scene for more then a day and not catching the hype trains that come and go.
Where was this amazing carry player when EG didn't have the best drafter (ppd) and the best midlaner (sumail) and the best offlaner (universe)? That EG team didn't do anything.
Fear is good, but there are a lot of carries that can do what he does, we can't say the same about ppd and suma1l.
This is actually hilariously wrong. Back in the era of Demon/Jeyo/Bamboe EG, Fear was easily the best player on the team. He played carry some games, and even managed to carry so hard that they won despite Jimmy's best efforts to throw.
Please go watch some of his old, pre-TI3 games with Alch before you say anything like that again. Fact of the matter is, even when Fear played absolutely out of his mind, he couldn't carry the weight of those three players. I'd like to see anyone, let it be RTZ or Aggressif or whoever else, manage to succeed under those circumstances.
You made my point.
Those teams accomplished nothing regardless of how good Fear was.
C9 did very well relatively despite how horrid pieliedie would play and how useless bone7 was in many tournaments.
If you are calling PLD and Bone7 bad, you clearly have never seen the three I mentioned playing.
PLD had a moment when he was one of the best in the world, which was 2 year ago when they won MLG, then he fell off a cliff since then when he gave us a support tinker. He's been bad for a while.
Bone7 is a professional level player obviously, but holy hell he had a comic drawn about how horribly bad he was during DAC. Sucked on void, axe, tide hunter, brood when those offlane heroes were part of the meta.
EPT
