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On August 08 2015 01:33 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2015 18:24 blobrus wrote:
The finals last year were pretty much universally agreed on as being awful. I don't think it's a western bias at all, if Na'vi and Alliance played those exact same games everyone still would have hated them.
If the finals are bad in any way you can guarantee there's going to be a reddit thread about it, they complain about everything. Threads complaining about some minor thing valve hasn't fixed hit front page, do you really think they won't criticize a bad finals just because it's a western team? Yes, on reddit. Stop thinking you're the center of the world.
Anyone who thinks they were good finals is actually braindead
O ur flair lol
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On August 08 2015 01:53 chosenkerrigan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:46 Azarkon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:24 Shergal wrote:On August 08 2015 01:15 Azarkon wrote:
I am 99% sure that West, and especially Americans, are going to win this tournament now that Secret is out.
In case they don't, I'll never talk shit about Chinese Dota again. At this point you shouldn't really. Your idea that there is some fundamental problem with Dota in China that is exclusive to them is already desestimated from everything that happened since TI3, no matter what the results of this one particular tournament are. You say this as though the Chinese didn't lose practically every tournament in the last six months. I'll say this: their results this tournament have been above where I thought they'd be. But it doesn't change the fact that it is, in a lot of ways, due to Western teams, especially Secret and Empire, tilting. It isn't because their results all year have shown that they were equal to the West. To this end, just as you say - this tournament alone does not say a lot. But I'm still willing to say that the West is going to win, because I trust PPD won't be tilting. You realize when there is a tournament that has a $ 18mm prize pool once a year, all the other tournaments COMBINED are like chicken feet comparing to this one. In Dota, nothing else matters comparing to Worlds. If a team wins Worlds, it is the world's best team. If China has 4 teams in top 6 at Worlds, China > West. It's that simple.
What? Everybody - including the Chinese themselves - believe they failed during 2013. Yet, they had three teams then. Why does four make China > West?
China > West when they win, simple as that.
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On August 08 2015 01:48 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 08 2015 01:34 Azarkon wrote:On August 07 2015 21:33 Shergal wrote:
EG are overwhelming favorites at this point. They haven't played the best Dota in the event, but to them that's irrelevant. They will just outdraft the opposition and bore them out of the game like they always do. I don't really see any of the remaining teams beating them unless ppd chokes. PPD's pick strategy, especially against Chinese teams, is simple: Ban: Leshrac, Gyrocopter Pick: Techies/Naga/Bounty It works because no Chinese team wants to play two out of those three heroes. As such, PPD is able to get what he wants every time. And he isn't afraid of other teams getting bounty, because he knows how to play against it. PPD wins simply because he and his players know both what to pick and how to play it. Had other teams known how to play these heroes, there'd be no issue, but they don't. Yeah, the scene that literally created the Naga meta doesn't know how to play Naga. Ok. I can buy that they don't know how to play Techies, but your statement is just too funny. I'm pretty sure the Chinese teams did not develop Radiance rush Naga Siren, Meracle(of First Departure) was the first player I remember doing that and I think rtz was actually the one who brought it to the forefront.
Chinese teams have been playing Naga competitively since DotA 1. In fact, going into TI2, they had a massive advantage in that they had a far more developed meta than the Western teams did, even though if you go all the way back, Azarkon was still riding the West hard back then.
So.... yeah. This idea that the Chinese teams don't know how to play against or how to play Naga is hilarious. As a support, her best spell is her sleep, and they've played against that ultimate enough to know how to properly engage and disengage. If you're going to say they didn't know how to play against Wisp (which they didn't), that would be a correct statement. They clearly didn't. It's just that Chinese teams favor certain heroes over other ones; they don't really value Naga that high even though it does get banned quite often (more as an annoyance factor). The only hero they don't know how to play against is really Techies, and in all honesty not many teams from the West have any idea how to play against the hero either.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On August 08 2015 01:55 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:54 bagels21 wrote:On August 08 2015 01:50 ref4 wrote:
Azarkon is still alive after Secret's defeat? I am surprised his new team is EG. You missed the EHOME match where he literally started referring to EG as "we" and pretending like he was a member(or true fanboi) of EG. He also claimed that Arteezy and Sumail were from USA lol. He'd be a lot funnier if he was a diehard C9 fan though.
But C9 doesn't win tournaments. So you wouldn't see the unfortunate and funny comments of victorious Azarkon.
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On August 08 2015 01:59 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:55 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2015 01:54 bagels21 wrote:On August 08 2015 01:50 ref4 wrote:
Azarkon is still alive after Secret's defeat? I am surprised his new team is EG. You missed the EHOME match where he literally started referring to EG as "we" and pretending like he was a member(or true fanboi) of EG. He also claimed that Arteezy and Sumail were from USA lol. He'd be a lot funnier if he was a diehard C9 fan though. But C9 doesn't win tournaments. So you wouldn't see the unfortunate and funny comments of victorious Azarkon.
I find the salty rationalization to be much more entertaining.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On August 08 2015 02:00 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:59 TanGeng wrote:On August 08 2015 01:55 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2015 01:54 bagels21 wrote:On August 08 2015 01:50 ref4 wrote:
Azarkon is still alive after Secret's defeat? I am surprised his new team is EG. You missed the EHOME match where he literally started referring to EG as "we" and pretending like he was a member(or true fanboi) of EG. He also claimed that Arteezy and Sumail were from USA lol. He'd be a lot funnier if he was a diehard C9 fan though. But C9 doesn't win tournaments. So you wouldn't see the unfortunate and funny comments of victorious Azarkon. I find the salty rationalization to be much more entertaining.
You need some variety though.
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Oh is part of the video new? Where the morphed Burning into AM, Notail into Meepo etc.... that was pretty cool.
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On August 08 2015 01:59 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:53 chosenkerrigan wrote:On August 08 2015 01:46 Azarkon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:24 Shergal wrote:On August 08 2015 01:15 Azarkon wrote:
I am 99% sure that West, and especially Americans, are going to win this tournament now that Secret is out.
In case they don't, I'll never talk shit about Chinese Dota again. At this point you shouldn't really. Your idea that there is some fundamental problem with Dota in China that is exclusive to them is already desestimated from everything that happened since TI3, no matter what the results of this one particular tournament are. You say this as though the Chinese didn't lose practically every tournament in the last six months. I'll say this: their results this tournament have been above where I thought they'd be. But it doesn't change the fact that it is, in a lot of ways, due to Western teams, especially Secret and Empire, tilting. It isn't because their results all year have shown that they were equal to the West. To this end, just as you say - this tournament alone does not say a lot. But I'm still willing to say that the West is going to win, because I trust PPD won't be tilting. You realize when there is a tournament that has a $ 18mm prize pool once a year, all the other tournaments COMBINED are like chicken feet comparing to this one. In Dota, nothing else matters comparing to Worlds. If a team wins Worlds, it is the world's best team. If China has 4 teams in top 6 at Worlds, China > West. It's that simple. What? Everybody - including the Chinese themselves - believe they failed during 2013. Yet, they had three teams then. Why does four make China > West? China > West when they win, simple as that.
I would like to perma-ban bet EG is not gonna win.
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On August 08 2015 01:59 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:48 Elyvilon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 08 2015 01:34 Azarkon wrote:On August 07 2015 21:33 Shergal wrote:
EG are overwhelming favorites at this point. They haven't played the best Dota in the event, but to them that's irrelevant. They will just outdraft the opposition and bore them out of the game like they always do. I don't really see any of the remaining teams beating them unless ppd chokes. PPD's pick strategy, especially against Chinese teams, is simple: Ban: Leshrac, Gyrocopter Pick: Techies/Naga/Bounty It works because no Chinese team wants to play two out of those three heroes. As such, PPD is able to get what he wants every time. And he isn't afraid of other teams getting bounty, because he knows how to play against it. PPD wins simply because he and his players know both what to pick and how to play it. Had other teams known how to play these heroes, there'd be no issue, but they don't. Yeah, the scene that literally created the Naga meta doesn't know how to play Naga. Ok. I can buy that they don't know how to play Techies, but your statement is just too funny. I'm pretty sure the Chinese teams did not develop Radiance rush Naga Siren, Meracle(of First Departure) was the first player I remember doing that and I think rtz was actually the one who brought it to the forefront. Chinese teams have been playing Naga competitively since DotA 1. In fact, going into TI2, they had a massive advantage in that they had a far more developed meta than the Western teams did, even though if you go all the way back, Azarkon was still riding the West hard back then.
They played it differently. They used it only to start fights. They never used it to stop / change fights, which is what Alliance did.
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konadora
Singapore66161 Posts
yeah those were new, didnt see sumail storm before as well
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On August 08 2015 01:59 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:48 Elyvilon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 08 2015 01:34 Azarkon wrote:On August 07 2015 21:33 Shergal wrote:
EG are overwhelming favorites at this point. They haven't played the best Dota in the event, but to them that's irrelevant. They will just outdraft the opposition and bore them out of the game like they always do. I don't really see any of the remaining teams beating them unless ppd chokes. PPD's pick strategy, especially against Chinese teams, is simple: Ban: Leshrac, Gyrocopter Pick: Techies/Naga/Bounty It works because no Chinese team wants to play two out of those three heroes. As such, PPD is able to get what he wants every time. And he isn't afraid of other teams getting bounty, because he knows how to play against it. PPD wins simply because he and his players know both what to pick and how to play it. Had other teams known how to play these heroes, there'd be no issue, but they don't. Yeah, the scene that literally created the Naga meta doesn't know how to play Naga. Ok. I can buy that they don't know how to play Techies, but your statement is just too funny. I'm pretty sure the Chinese teams did not develop Radiance rush Naga Siren, Meracle(of First Departure) was the first player I remember doing that and I think rtz was actually the one who brought it to the forefront. Chinese teams have been playing Naga competitively since DotA 1. In fact, going into TI2, they had a massive advantage in that they had a far more developed meta than the Western teams did, even though if you go all the way back, Azarkon was still riding the West hard back then. So.... yeah. This idea that the Chinese teams don't know how to play against or how to play Naga is hilarious. As a support, her best spell is her sleep, and they've played against that ultimate enough to know how to properly engage and disengage.
remember when Azarkon was Dendi's #1 fanboy and there was a massively long thread/dispute on Dendi vs. all other solo mids
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On August 08 2015 02:02 chosenkerrigan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:59 Azarkon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:53 chosenkerrigan wrote:On August 08 2015 01:46 Azarkon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:24 Shergal wrote:On August 08 2015 01:15 Azarkon wrote:
I am 99% sure that West, and especially Americans, are going to win this tournament now that Secret is out.
In case they don't, I'll never talk shit about Chinese Dota again. At this point you shouldn't really. Your idea that there is some fundamental problem with Dota in China that is exclusive to them is already desestimated from everything that happened since TI3, no matter what the results of this one particular tournament are. You say this as though the Chinese didn't lose practically every tournament in the last six months. I'll say this: their results this tournament have been above where I thought they'd be. But it doesn't change the fact that it is, in a lot of ways, due to Western teams, especially Secret and Empire, tilting. It isn't because their results all year have shown that they were equal to the West. To this end, just as you say - this tournament alone does not say a lot. But I'm still willing to say that the West is going to win, because I trust PPD won't be tilting. You realize when there is a tournament that has a $ 18mm prize pool once a year, all the other tournaments COMBINED are like chicken feet comparing to this one. In Dota, nothing else matters comparing to Worlds. If a team wins Worlds, it is the world's best team. If China has 4 teams in top 6 at Worlds, China > West. It's that simple. What? Everybody - including the Chinese themselves - believe they failed during 2013. Yet, they had three teams then. Why does four make China > West? China > West when they win, simple as that. I would like to perma-ban bet EG is not gonna win.
I've already said what I'm going to do were West not to win. Besides, I'm not going to do that with you when you have 23 posts.
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On August 08 2015 02:02 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:59 superstartran wrote:On August 08 2015 01:48 Elyvilon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 08 2015 01:34 Azarkon wrote:On August 07 2015 21:33 Shergal wrote:
EG are overwhelming favorites at this point. They haven't played the best Dota in the event, but to them that's irrelevant. They will just outdraft the opposition and bore them out of the game like they always do. I don't really see any of the remaining teams beating them unless ppd chokes. PPD's pick strategy, especially against Chinese teams, is simple: Ban: Leshrac, Gyrocopter Pick: Techies/Naga/Bounty It works because no Chinese team wants to play two out of those three heroes. As such, PPD is able to get what he wants every time. And he isn't afraid of other teams getting bounty, because he knows how to play against it. PPD wins simply because he and his players know both what to pick and how to play it. Had other teams known how to play these heroes, there'd be no issue, but they don't. Yeah, the scene that literally created the Naga meta doesn't know how to play Naga. Ok. I can buy that they don't know how to play Techies, but your statement is just too funny. I'm pretty sure the Chinese teams did not develop Radiance rush Naga Siren, Meracle(of First Departure) was the first player I remember doing that and I think rtz was actually the one who brought it to the forefront. Chinese teams have been playing Naga competitively since DotA 1. In fact, going into TI2, they had a massive advantage in that they had a far more developed meta than the Western teams did, even though if you go all the way back, Azarkon was still riding the West hard back then. They played it differently. They used it only to start fights. They never used it to stop / change fights, which is what Alliance did.
Really? That's why we saw tons of Naga sleep interruptions of initiations by opposing teams during TI2 by the Chinese teams amirite?
Or the thousands of WC3 replays I have of Naga support back in the everyone pick Natures Prophet/Clinkz and split push the opposing team into the ground? Yeah. I'm just imagining shit.
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On August 08 2015 02:01 TanGeng wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 02:00 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2015 01:59 TanGeng wrote:On August 08 2015 01:55 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2015 01:54 bagels21 wrote:On August 08 2015 01:50 ref4 wrote:
Azarkon is still alive after Secret's defeat? I am surprised his new team is EG. You missed the EHOME match where he literally started referring to EG as "we" and pretending like he was a member(or true fanboi) of EG. He also claimed that Arteezy and Sumail were from USA lol. He'd be a lot funnier if he was a diehard C9 fan though. But C9 doesn't win tournaments. So you wouldn't see the unfortunate and funny comments of victorious Azarkon. I find the salty rationalization to be much more entertaining. You need some variety though.
I think that you're right. C9 does win enough GAMES individually that Azarkon would still be entertaining.
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link? was this on GG.net? all I remember of Azarkon back then was that everytime I went there to download reps, there was always this guy hating on the chinese teams.
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On August 08 2015 02:03 bagels21 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2015 01:59 superstartran wrote:On August 08 2015 01:48 Elyvilon wrote:On August 08 2015 01:40 superstartran wrote:On August 08 2015 01:34 Azarkon wrote:On August 07 2015 21:33 Shergal wrote:
EG are overwhelming favorites at this point. They haven't played the best Dota in the event, but to them that's irrelevant. They will just outdraft the opposition and bore them out of the game like they always do. I don't really see any of the remaining teams beating them unless ppd chokes. PPD's pick strategy, especially against Chinese teams, is simple: Ban: Leshrac, Gyrocopter Pick: Techies/Naga/Bounty It works because no Chinese team wants to play two out of those three heroes. As such, PPD is able to get what he wants every time. And he isn't afraid of other teams getting bounty, because he knows how to play against it. PPD wins simply because he and his players know both what to pick and how to play it. Had other teams known how to play these heroes, there'd be no issue, but they don't. Yeah, the scene that literally created the Naga meta doesn't know how to play Naga. Ok. I can buy that they don't know how to play Techies, but your statement is just too funny. I'm pretty sure the Chinese teams did not develop Radiance rush Naga Siren, Meracle(of First Departure) was the first player I remember doing that and I think rtz was actually the one who brought it to the forefront. Chinese teams have been playing Naga competitively since DotA 1. In fact, going into TI2, they had a massive advantage in that they had a far more developed meta than the Western teams did, even though if you go all the way back, Azarkon was still riding the West hard back then. So.... yeah. This idea that the Chinese teams don't know how to play against or how to play Naga is hilarious. As a support, her best spell is her sleep, and they've played against that ultimate enough to know how to properly engage and disengage. remember when Azarkon was Dendi's #1 fanboy and there was a massively long thread/dispute on Dendi vs. all other solo mids
I think that was pretty funny, he seriously thought Dendi was the best mid in the world at the time, even though at TI2 you could pick almost any mid laner from the East and they would beat Dendi quite easily in any mid match-up. He wasn't really a very strong midlaner until TI3 (as in lane mechanics).
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I'm very conflicted......I actually want EG to win but I also want to see Azarkon's reaction when they lose.
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I think the whole "Azarkon vs China" thing started when everyone at the west got traumatized by EHOME stomping through ESWC 2010. That's what started the divide between the Chinese Dota fanboys and those who hated them/thought it was a fluke.
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On August 08 2015 02:06 Loanshark wrote:
I'm very conflicted......I actually want EG to win but I also want to see Azarkon's reaction when they lose.
I think that you should cheer on EG if that's the case.
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EPT
