On September 02 2012 16:51 Ryuu314 wrote:
While Na'vi's picks against IG were great, I'm not convinced that it was Navi that outpicked them as much as it was IG choking and making some major mistakes over and over again.

iG's teamfight weakness is enigma, note how vs EG and Na'Vi they didn't respect the black hole. 430 played bad today but honestly he wasnt given the tools to take over the early-mid game -- puck wasnt very useful against na'vis lineup and a lot of the games have been so aggressive on tinker in TI2 that the hero often doesnt get any time to get rolling before teams lose, resulting in a 35% winrate so far.

going into the actual TI2 people thought LGD was less versatile than iG, but while iG has very talented players they seem to be reluctant to get out of their comfort hero picks, as evidenced in these later rounds. i think beastmaster will become one of the more important heroes to think about in these final rounds.

I am very, very disappointed by the picks and versatility of Chinese teams in general this TI 2.

Na'Vi is far from perfect. A lot of Puppey's picks are unstable and aren't exactly the best picks ever. But they work because he is able to predict the Chinese teams' picks so perfectly due to their dogmatic sticking to what they know and use in their own meta.

For example, Enigma - every Dota player who has played this game for longer than a year knows how to counter this hero. VS, Beast, Silencer - all of these heroes are hard counters. Hell, Silencer was a perfect pick for iG that game because Global Silence is applied over magic immunity and all of Na'Vi's heroes depended on spells to function.

Song -> Global Silence -> Ravage + Wall + Vacuum + Lina's spells + Curse -> GG.

Same with Beast, though I forget whether he was banned by Na'Vi, but it's an obvious counter and also adds extra AoE damage to the combo and push denial.

Instead they went for a Puck because 430 only knows how to play 5 heroes well in Dota 2 and that's one of them.

In the third game, Puppey first picked Leshrac and Chen and iG was not able to respond with an AM, and later an AA. Sad.

beastmaster or vs was a much better option in my opinion. even though their antipush is slightly weaker you still have a naga and tidehunter to fall back on. i know ferrari can play beastmaster for sure, but faith never seems to like to fallback on the draft for enigma, in fact im not sure why they even picked puck, hell they couldve gone with TA/vs instead of puck/lina and been in a lot better shape with no leshrac around. one of the most underestimated things in the game is vacuum + WALL** + TA trap, it is absolutely infuriating if you dont have the right heroes to get out of it/get rid of the illusions, not to mention naga helps traps and cleave setups. didnt the pinoys do this already??

i remember in the old days how feared enigma was in the chinese scene such that he was an instant ban... you think they would remember the simple stuff from the old days =P. well at least that teamfight is now immortalized as "the play"

Solo mid beastmaster against rubick? They picked tidehunter earlier because they thought it would guarantee their teamfight victory over a beastmaster. So that leaves the lina, which was probably a mistake over a vengeful or even lich.

But I'm guessing iG had refined their naga teamfight down so perfectly, that they were confident, almost automatic in their execution. I don't think they believed that if they executed everything perfectly (catching everyone in the sleep vacuum ravage +aoe spam), they would lose. What's the point of practicing a strategy over and over if you don't believe it will work?

Bill Russell once said you make adjustments, but they have to be adjustments you can reasonably make.

Ryuu314

United States12679 Posts

September 02 2012 10:45 GMT

#15210

While I think Puppey's picks were really strong with Juggernaut pick and the bkb rushes on Enigma, you can't deny that IG's bad play definitely contributed heavily to their losses. Several times during IG v. Navi game 2, 2+ members of IG didn't carry TP or TP'd incredibly late when Navi was pushing. Naga's ult was completely un-utilized several times throughout the game and at several points in the game they didnt even combo with Naga's ulti properly. Not only did IG not respect the Enigma black holes, they also completely ignored Rubick and let him get several clutch spell steals throughout the game.

So while yes, Navi's picks were amazing, IG's lack of execution contributed just as much if not more to IG's loss.

Doraemon

Australia14949 Posts

September 02 2012 10:47 GMT

#15211

wow. so LGD hasn't lost a single game yet?

Yoshi-

Germany10227 Posts

September 02 2012 10:50 GMT

#15212

They weren't even close to dropping a game

konadora

Singapore66364 Posts

September 02 2012 10:50 GMT

#15213

On September 02 2012 19:47 Doraemon wrote:
wow. so LGD hasn't lost a single game yet?

nope

think they're 18-0 or 20-0, can't remember lol

TubeCycleLeet

13 Posts

September 02 2012 10:55 GMT

#15214

naavi overrated!

konadora

Singapore66364 Posts

September 02 2012 10:55 GMT

#15215

On September 02 2012 19:55 TubeCycleLeet wrote:
naavi overrated!

lolwut

Ramong

Denmark1706 Posts

September 02 2012 11:01 GMT

#15216

On September 02 2012 19:55 TubeCycleLeet wrote:
naavi overrated!

and IG aren't?

Merix

Ukraine28 Posts

September 02 2012 11:05 GMT

#15217

Dendi explaines laughing during picks and fail blink/ult in game 2, also reason for underperforming in groups and some other stuff.

(ENG subtitles)
http://www.youtube.com/embed/jKhSnWsBTio

Lucumo

6850 Posts

September 02 2012 11:08 GMT

#15218

Can you post the gist of it, please?

Benjef

United Kingdom6921 Posts

September 02 2012 11:08 GMT

#15219

anything released on whos casting what yet?

Honestly I hope everyone casts it and us back home get a choice...