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On August 28 2012 22:30 EnvyUK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 22:21 SKC wrote:On August 28 2012 22:02 dtz wrote:On August 28 2012 21:52 SKC wrote:On August 28 2012 21:43 dtz wrote:On August 28 2012 21:39 SKC wrote:On August 28 2012 21:32 ControlMonkey wrote:On August 28 2012 21:19 YODA_ wrote:On August 28 2012 13:09 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On reddit
"
To clarify some stuff, as obviously it needs to be done:
valve notifies the streamers of the matches they will cast about 24hrs before the starting time
I lodge my dispute instantly and am told the decisions will not be changed and I am free to stream using DOTA TV or cast the assigned game.
We are not being paid at all for the group stage coverage and are doing it with our own time and resources
Once at the US then they pay and I will go by their ruling
This is not me being immature this is me asking for this stuff to be organised better (the whole professional side you are asking for), to consult the streamers alot more, and for streamers like myself and v1lat that commit alot of time to stream many DOTA2 events we do, yes, expect a certain lvl of game to be cast."
Yep, well he basically said it himself. He feels as if he deserves this or some shit. Ok, let me bold this for you people that just aren't getting it. He's not getting paid, so this is not part of his job. As the "premier" Dota 2 caster right now, he absolutely SHOULD get to cast just about any game he wants at this point in the tournament considering he's doing it for free, on his own time. If Vavle was paying him, then absolutely, he would be in the wrong. They are NOT paying him for this, so he should be able to cast whatever he wants. The guy is donating 12 hours+ a day for 3 days, and you people are bashing him because he doesn't want to cast yet another rofl-stomp. Seriously? Do you guys bashing him enjoy working for free too? And not only working for free, get bashed for being a little picky at what he does for free? Really???? I just don't get it. Be glad you have dedicated casters that donate 12+ hours a day of their own time, FOR FREE, for your entertainment. Seriously, just stfu. They may not be paying him for this, but they have invited him to commentate the most prestigious Dota 2 tournament on the planet. Just because he is not being paid, it does not mean he is not receiving something from it. Its probably a good idea on his end to pull his head in and follow what valve says, even if he he complains to them privately. But yeah, witch hunting him is stupid. From the original quote, they seem to have told him he is also free to cast by DotaTV, isn't that what he did? They told him he couldn't expectate inside the game, which makes sense, makes things much more clean and organized and avoids delays. Are people mad because he didn't do what Valve wanted or what they wanted? Don't mix those up together, it's not the same thing. Valve gave him a schedule. Tobi wasn't happy with it and said he wasn't going to follow them. Valve relented and told Tobi he can do whatever he wants. That's the latest update anyway. About 1 hour later, Tobi came out with an apology to both Valve and the community. Many people just interpreted it as Valve being the bigger man and not wanting to create any drama by letting Tobi not follow the schedule. But noone but Valve know if that's how it happened. Why are people butthurt in Valve's place? If Valve has an issue with the way Tobi acted, Valve can choose to do something about it. It's not like they are powerless and unable to do anything about it. Valve either thinks this isn't an issue, or that this isn't a big deal that merits any action, so why do the viewers think they know better and must act in their place? People are assuming he disrespected Valve when we have no idea about how their talk went or what Valve really want. Let them fix their issues by themself, if there's even an issue. Also, this "mediocre caster" is bullshit. People have complained about him lack of insight for ages, but a huge amount of people still believed him to be not just a great caster, but sometimes even one of the best caster in all ESPORTS when combined with good pro players. Eh don't overthink it. People are upset that instead of sticking with the perfectly valid schedule in which all games will have official English casters ( in dotaTV), Tobi jumped to the Tongfu IG game instead. So, no english caster for that game but there were 2 for mtw navi. He did that the previous day as well. So if you wanna watch Tongfu IG in English, you are left hanging. example : http://dota2.com/international/game/190 <-- no english commentary His justification is that for experienced casters like him and vlat, the game has to be of a certain level and importance. That's quite a condescending statement to the teams and the fans of those teams. He admitted later that it was a dick move to say and do this. That screwed up a lot. If Tobi didn't wanna be official casters, he should have told Valve beforehand so Valve can allocate other casters to make sure all the games have English streams. Anyway, all things are settled. He will cast his allocated games and recast the other matches later on. Plenty of games have no english commentary though, I was ussually watching multiple games and it was fairly common to open one that only had one russian caster, mtrx I think. Including DK vs LGD I believe, which was as good as or better than iG vs TongFu. Yet noone complained then. The issue people had was Tobi switching which game he casted, not the fact there are games without english commentary, else they would be complaining since the start of the tournament. I also don't think it was even the first time a game had multiple english casters. I don't believe that there were "plenty" of games without English commentary; feel free to prove me wrong though. Purge, GoDz, Nebula and 2GD had stepped in to cast games that were left without a caster. It wasn't the first time a game had multiple English casters in-game because, as the person you are responding to said, Tobi did the same thing the previous day. At the time, people didn't exactly know why Tobi wasn't casting the game, one rumour in the chat I was allocated was that he was having technical issues.
I used to jump into nearly every game, sometimes just to check the score or see how they were going, and I'm sure I got no english option on the client a few times. I think it was better on the second day though, but I still remember only seeing mtrx. That was only on the last ~6 hours of the casts, as I can't catch the first half of the games. For the same reason I also can't open the client now to check which games I was talking about.
I remember one game where mtrx the only commentator but he was not actually casting during the drafts, you would only get a random burp or weird noise.
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On August 28 2012 22:21 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 22:05 EchoZ wrote:
Can't wait for the games to start,
1) Action packed night!
2) Take the thread away from the commentating shitstorm.
At this stage i really dont believe that anyone is saving any special tactic.
Gotta say I disagree with that!
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Yea the English casting group only had three pairs to begin with, Tobi & Slesh, Ayesee & Draskyl, and Luminous & LD. So one game per 4 would have had no in-game English commentary. However Purge, GoDz, 2GD and Nebula filled in some of the gaps.
I'm pretty sure that at least in the last two hours of Sunday, all games had English casters. There were the default three pairs casting their scheduled games with 2GD and Nebula casting the left over game.
Edit: Also I have to say Purge and GoDz surprisingly make a really good casting pair. Even though they both air on the analysis side of things, they have great chemistry and actually bounce off each others take on things.
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On August 28 2012 22:21 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 22:07 Poorlilrich wrote:On August 28 2012 21:57 Alur wrote:On August 28 2012 21:23 Poorlilrich wrote:
Dat e-sports community...
Before this Tobi witchhunt I had never seen a single bad thing written about his personality or commentary, only high praise for his commitment to dota. Now he behaves distastefully and suddenly its all "I don't know why they even let Tobi commentate, his knowledge of the game is so sub-par" and "I've always liked Luminous/Godz/whoever else better than Tobi." Read the comments on reddit if you need proof, fucking unbelievable sheep people. While Tobi is quite committed, plenty of people have preferred other commentators since forever. Just because you haven't seen people who don't enjoy Tobi's casting doesn't mean they don't exist =/ Of course they exist; I for one like watching Luminous better. But don't you think its funny that since this fiasco those same people are suddenly much more vocal about their opinion of Tobi, and their negative posts of him are getting massively upvoted on Reddit? That's not funny, it's perfectly sensible. Tobi has done a lot of appalling shit over time--it stands to reason that as he does more appalling shit, there will be more and more people who realize the shit he does is appalling. Would you rather those people voice their criticisms of Tobi at times when he hasn't done anything stupid recently so that it all falls on deaf ears? And no, the "mediocre caster talk" is not "bullshit." Tobi is dreadful in terms of game knowledge and ability to fill time. His only saving grace is good play-by-play, but even then he falls back on the same tired phrases time and again and relies too much on just being really loud--sometimes painfully or embarrassingly so--and excited. He can be tolerable with Synderen and other pros, but even then he has a very annoying tendency to ignore or try to argue with casting partners who clearly know better than he does. (See the games where Puppey casted with him 1-2 months ago)
Which "appalling shit" Tobi did in the past ?
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Crying on twitter how TPL stole their generic name and that "lame as a ..." phrase in a pub game
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On August 28 2012 23:10 Yoshi- wrote:
Crying on twitter how TPL stole their generic name and that "lame as a ..." phrase in a pub game
I see...
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On August 28 2012 22:21 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 22:07 Poorlilrich wrote:On August 28 2012 21:57 Alur wrote:On August 28 2012 21:23 Poorlilrich wrote:
Dat e-sports community...
Before this Tobi witchhunt I had never seen a single bad thing written about his personality or commentary, only high praise for his commitment to dota. Now he behaves distastefully and suddenly its all "I don't know why they even let Tobi commentate, his knowledge of the game is so sub-par" and "I've always liked Luminous/Godz/whoever else better than Tobi." Read the comments on reddit if you need proof, fucking unbelievable sheep people. While Tobi is quite committed, plenty of people have preferred other commentators since forever. Just because you haven't seen people who don't enjoy Tobi's casting doesn't mean they don't exist =/ Of course they exist; I for one like watching Luminous better. But don't you think its funny that since this fiasco those same people are suddenly much more vocal about their opinion of Tobi, and their negative posts of him are getting massively upvoted on Reddit? That's not funny, it's perfectly sensible. Tobi has done a lot of appalling shit over time--it stands to reason that as he does more appalling shit, there will be more and more people who realize the shit he does is appalling. Would you rather those people voice their criticisms of Tobi at times when he hasn't done anything stupid recently so that it all falls on deaf ears? And no, the "mediocre caster talk" is not "bullshit." Tobi is dreadful in terms of game knowledge and ability to fill time. His only saving grace is good play-by-play, but even then he falls back on the same tired phrases time and again and relies too much on just being really loud--sometimes painfully or embarrassingly so--and excited. He can be tolerable with Synderen and other pros, but even then he has a very annoying tendency to ignore or try to argue with casting partners who clearly know better than he does. (See the games where Puppey casted with him 1-2 months ago)
The f............ He has done nothing "appalling". Ever. Much less "a lot of appalling shit over time".
appalling: 1. causing extreme dismay, horror, or revulsion
2. very bad
ROFL. And if you call what he just did "appalling", then you are just insanely biased against him. OMG, he didn't cast that one game one time for free, what a child-rapist!!!!!
On August 28 2012 23:10 Yoshi- wrote:
Crying on twitter how TPL stole their generic name and that "lame as a ..." phrase in a pub game
Oh good lord. Just toss him in jail, what a monster!!
And he is almost universally recognized as one of the best casters ever, across all games. So no, he isn't "mediocre", either.
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
can we just all calm down
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Are we so starved for drama that we have to fabricate it over something so minor as this that he has already apologised and gone back to what was happening before. Let's just all worship our Asian overlords!
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He did something he said himself was a "dick move" and apologized for it. End of story for me.
If Valve want to make any further steps I will not complain but imo the shit he got for it was already to much of a punishment.
I´m just happy when in not even 2 hours the games start, and preferable with many Tobi casts.
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On August 28 2012 21:29 BurningSera wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2012 21:19 YODA_ wrote:On August 28 2012 13:09 Itsmedudeman wrote:
On reddit
"
To clarify some stuff, as obviously it needs to be done:
valve notifies the streamers of the matches they will cast about 24hrs before the starting time
I lodge my dispute instantly and am told the decisions will not be changed and I am free to stream using DOTA TV or cast the assigned game.
We are not being paid at all for the group stage coverage and are doing it with our own time and resources
Once at the US then they pay and I will go by their ruling
This is not me being immature this is me asking for this stuff to be organised better (the whole professional side you are asking for), to consult the streamers alot more, and for streamers like myself and v1lat that commit alot of time to stream many DOTA2 events we do, yes, expect a certain lvl of game to be cast."
Yep, well he basically said it himself. He feels as if he deserves this or some shit. Ok, let me bold this for you people that just aren't getting it. He's not getting paid, so this is not part of his job. As the "premier" Dota 2 caster right now, he absolutely SHOULD get to cast just about any game he wants at this point in the tournament considering he's doing it for free, on his own time. If Vavle was paying him, then absolutely, he would be in the wrong. They are NOT paying him for this, so he should be able to cast whatever he wants. The guy is donating 12 hours+ a day for 3 days, and you people are bashing him because he doesn't want to cast yet another rofl-stomp. Seriously? Do you guys bashing him enjoy working for free too? And not only working for free, get bashed for being a little picky at what he does for free? Really???? I just don't get it. Be glad you have dedicated casters that donate 12+ hours a day of their own time, FOR FREE, for your entertainment. Seriously, just stfu. That is exactly the other way around, if you didnt wanna do it because it is not paid, then gtfo and chill out but you don't go and ruin the scheduled casting. It is very selfish and a dick move because some of the games have no english casting because of what he did. And then, yo, you didn't pay me to do this so i can mess around with you (ie VALVE). Wow, and then you expect Valve will welcome tobi warmly at Seattle when BS like this happened? It is about the basic social skills and the professionalism. If you asked me luckily tobi is not a total retard and immediately apologized, be it sincere or not, at least the matter is resolved now.
Ummmm, he ruined exactly nothing, it is not exactly the other way around. English casters casting every game is not somehow the right of the community. He gets paid based on how many streamers he gets, and he thought he would get much more streamers by streaming game X instead of Y. If Valve doesn't like that....then they should actually pay him to cast the games they specify. Regardless, Valve TOLD Tobi he could basically do whatever the f he wanted.....as they WEREN'T PAYING HIM. So they can't make him cast anything, their caster schedule was just a small attempt at keeping order, not set rules, and regardless, he isn't under any kind of contractual obligation to cast AT ALL.
TLDR on the whole situation: He's doing it for free, short of stream revenue, controlled entirely by him, so just stfu. You don't like it? Cast your own f'ing games.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
I love how the Tobi witch hunt turned into a "hurr we're better than reddit" and "stop the pitchforks" circlejerk. It's so amusing to watch.
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Dota drama is usually pretty fucking juicy.
This is not very juicy. everyone stfu.
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On August 28 2012 23:22 Numy wrote:
Are we so starved for drama that we have to fabricate it over something so minor as this that he has already apologised and gone back to what was happening before. Let's just all worship our Asian overlords!
Indeed, between the rampant Chinese fanboy hipster-ism, and everyone bashing Tobi for being a little cranky after casting for 24 hours in the last 36, I think I want to ignore this thread for the next day...but then I'll miss the actual live reporting...which would be sad.
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And it's unfortunate you don't understand that people can disagree with what Tobi did and at the same time not want his head on a pike.
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On August 28 2012 23:25 cecek wrote:
I love how the Tobi witch hunt turned into a "hurr we're better than reddit" and "stop the pitchforks" circlejerk. It's so amusing to watch.
Or because we're actual humans being who respect the rights of someone to do whatever the hell they want when they aren't payed for it. Oh, and people using "appalling" to describe what he did......just rofl. He hasn't tortured any babies just yet, lets hold off on the Tobi hating.
On August 28 2012 23:28 ShadeR wrote:
And it's unfortunate you don't understand that people can disagree with what Tobi did and at the same time not want his head on a pike.
I can completely understand people disagreeing, but the lynch mob over an exceedingly trivial action is just ludicrous. He didn't flip Valve the giant double handed bird while threatening Gabe's children with rusty pitchfork rape, or blame the Jews for 9/11, at least not that I'm aware of. I think he would have got less flak if he actually did.
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It's not even that we are starved from Drama. That whole "Sayuri steals 2k from charity deal" barely got a comment over here and "Tobi decides to cast another game" gets a few pages. I really don't see why this is such a big deal.
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Who cares!!!
coL fighting! Just need to take 1 game off of Darer
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I think the problem is noone actually liked Sayuri to begin with :>
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EPT
