I can understand where Tobi's coming from though, he didn't understand the seriousness of what he did (he wasn't paid after all and had indeed been casting for 10 or so hours) so he wanted to take a break from serious casting and catch up on his favorite team, that by itself is probably fine. The problem is that he tried to play it off as though it was all cool and that he didn't do anything wrong. Pretty amazing dedication for the casters who were able to follow this through tho, the Chinese casters were far less professional and dedicated in this regard.
2009: starts a game -> looks around for a bit -> "yo boring i'm out switches to something else" danche/n3kotama: silent if chinese teams are losing -> hue hue insert shittalk here otherwise hue hue (a lot of his points, while often true, feel mean-spirited and quite biased) 820: fairly neutral, but doesn't do many games and no real energy through the day, also stopped using in-game after a while and only used YY
the Chinese delegation at Seattle seemed to do nothing
unprofessional as it was, the Chinese commentary was far more entertaining than what felt like a lot of filler of the English
On August 28 2012 19:15 Attakijing wrote: Imagine you're watching the UEFA euro 2012 and one of the announcers just refuses to go to a game because it's germany vs ireland, no way that ireland will win
But you wouldn't care, you just spent 10 pages saying his casts are trash so you're not watching him anyway. Most of you would have watched the russian cast or the in game client without commentary if I refer myself to the previous posts in this thread, but are bitching for the principle.
On August 28 2012 16:16 Taku wrote: Wooow jesus christ reddit is retarded, I leave the internet for 3 hours and come back and they've turned into witchhunting tobi what the hell
eh it was kind of founded and fair complaints, tobi later admitted that he had done wrong and agreed with reddit and apologized.
You're such a bandwagoning non-blind eye turning witchhunter, omg I thought TL was better than this, not fucking jumping on karma train bandwagon other.
Most of you admit you don't watch Tobi's casts, that you always disliked him, then you get your pitchforks when he doesn't cast a game that you'd obviously wouldn't have watched. You base yourself on intellectually dishonest arguments (at least 90% of the posts about this), but it's ok because you're a bandwagon, nobody will notice. Really, it's Tobi's job ? I didn't knew that if you had a 5 days a year contract it allowed your boss to tell you what to do for the other 360 years "because you're an employee". You all use arguments that you would fight in any other context.
I think people wouldn't hesitate to call out anyone if they did something like this, be it Tobi, Day[9] or whoever else. In addition I don't really understand how your analogy is applicable (even if we assume you meant 360 days). But I suppose I'm just being intellectually dishonest like most people on here.
Ok sorry I exaggerated, so even 1 day is ok I guess. It's not an analogy, it's exactly what is happening. Tobi is contracted for 5 days of casting. The prelim casts are not payed by Valve.
If Tobi knew that Valve isn't going to change the schedule to accommodate his requests, then he should have let Valve know that he isn't going to cast TI2 games under these circumstances and bail out. Valve can easily find replacements or split existing duos to fill the slot. The whole point here is that the show must run, which in this case is about having every single prelim game being casted in English. You can't say that you want to be part of the casting team, and then halfway through let the coordinator of the show and everyone else know that you're not going to do your part because you don't like it. Sure, Tobi isn't contracted to do shit, but guess who has more to lose if Tobi isn't casting TI2 games. I'm pretty sure it's not Valve. And yes, it's Tobi's JOB simply because he agreed to be part of the casting team. Job doesn't necessarily imply a pay check, it actually refers to a responsibility that Tobi knowingly conferred upon himself.
Even then, I still think that everyone could give him a hug for doing this for multiple days in a row. It's still no mean feat and it's not a principle of slacking on the job.
I find it funny we're calling a guy who volunteered to cast 12 hours a day "entitled" because he wanted to cast better games for his viewers. Jesus, the guy's sacrificed a lot for the community, and yet it never ceases to rip him a new one whenever he does something they disagree with. They'll spend hours typing infuriated posts about how much of a terrible person he is, and how they never liked him from the start, until he makes an apology stating that they were right all along, so they can lap up their +29402 karma for saying "nah it's k bro we love u thanks 4 apology u spelt rong thou ." I mean, as a TongFu fanboy who was really looking forward to that match I can see why everyone's up in arms about it, I was fairly pissed myself, but Jesus Christ the posts in this thread have been fucking appalling.
On August 28 2012 16:16 Taku wrote: Wooow jesus christ reddit is retarded, I leave the internet for 3 hours and come back and they've turned into witchhunting tobi what the hell
eh it was kind of founded and fair complaints, tobi later admitted that he had done wrong and agreed with reddit and apologized.
You're such a bandwagoning non-blind eye turning witchhunter, omg I thought TL was better than this, not fucking jumping on karma train bandwagon other.
Most of you admit you don't watch Tobi's casts, that you always disliked him, then you get your pitchforks when he doesn't cast a game that you'd obviously wouldn't have watched. You base yourself on intellectually dishonest arguments (at least 90% of the posts about this), but it's ok because you're a bandwagon, nobody will notice. Really, it's Tobi's job ? I didn't knew that if you had a 5 days a year contract it allowed your boss to tell you what to do for the other 360 years "because you're an employee". You all use arguments that you would fight in any other context.
I think people wouldn't hesitate to call out anyone if they did something like this, be it Tobi, Day[9] or whoever else. In addition I don't really understand how your analogy is applicable (even if we assume you meant 360 days). But I suppose I'm just being intellectually dishonest like most people on here.
Ok sorry I exaggerated, so even 1 day is ok I guess. It's not an analogy, it's exactly what is happening. Tobi is contracted for 5 days of casting. The prelim casts are not payed by Valve.
If Tobi knew that Valve isn't going to change the schedule to accommodate his requests, then he should have let Valve know that he isn't going to cast TI2 games under these circumstances and bail out. Valve can easily find replacements or split existing duos to fill the slot. The whole point here is that the show must run, which in this case is about having every single prelim game being casted in English. You can't say that you want to be part of the casting team, and then halfway through let the coordinator of the show and everyone else know that you're not going to do your part because you don't like it. Sure, Tobi isn't contracted to do shit, but guess who has more to lose if Tobi isn't casting TI2 games. I'm pretty sure it's not Valve. And yes, it's Tobi's JOB simply because he agreed to be part of the casting team. Job doesn't necessarily imply a pay check, it actually refers to a responsibility that Tobi knowingly conferred upon himself.
Even then, I still think that everyone could give him a hug for doing this for multiple days in a row. It's still no mean feat and it's not a principle of slacking on the job.
I agree he didn't handled that perfectly, he should have casted this last match then said that he'd cast what he wanted for the last day, I agree on that. Seems he was frustrated with the Valve way of handling this tho.
On August 28 2012 19:15 Attakijing wrote: Imagine you're watching the UEFA euro 2012 and one of the announcers just refuses to go to a game because it's germany vs ireland, no way that ireland will win
And they only pay the announcer for the finals, not the germany vs ireland game?
On August 28 2012 20:02 OopsOopsBaby wrote: anyone knows how to make the camera such that when u remove ur cursor from the edge it stops panning immediately in spectator mode? or is it intended?
it is really bugging me as the camera continues to move a little even after i remove the cursor from the edge.
I think there is such an option either directly in the game options or in the autoexec file, it's explained in the autoexec thread in this very section anyway iirc.
Felt like valve gave tobi a lot of the high profile matches though. A lot of navi matches and a lot of East vs West fights. I mean games like mouz m5 darer are so common in The Defense or Star Ladder whereas East vs West or even East vs East games are rarer. In LAN no less.
Turned out though, those games became absolute stomps and Tobi were probably just frustrated the games he got turned out lousy. And then even the normally action packed usual West vs West( CIS Dota) like Navi Darer became very one sided stomps as well. Just an unfortunate day for him.
Still doesn't excuse him to say things like " i expect certain level of game " though. That was just arrogance albeit one that stems from frustration. Glad it's over and done with now though. Hope it didn't leave any bitter taste with other commentators and Valve or even Tobi himself.
If everyone wants to take the hot games, then who's gonna cast Tongfu IG. It's perfectly sound logic for Valve to actually allocate games and leave things to the luck of the draw.
On August 28 2012 16:16 Taku wrote: Wooow jesus christ reddit is retarded, I leave the internet for 3 hours and come back and they've turned into witchhunting tobi what the hell
eh it was kind of founded and fair complaints, tobi later admitted that he had done wrong and agreed with reddit and apologized.
You're such a bandwagoning non-blind eye turning witchhunter, omg I thought TL was better than this, not fucking jumping on karma train bandwagon other.
Most of you admit you don't watch Tobi's casts, that you always disliked him, then you get your pitchforks when he doesn't cast a game that you'd obviously wouldn't have watched. You base yourself on intellectually dishonest arguments (at least 90% of the posts about this), but it's ok because you're a bandwagon, nobody will notice. Really, it's Tobi's job ? I didn't knew that if you had a 5 days a year contract it allowed your boss to tell you what to do for the other 360 years "because you're an employee". You all use arguments that you would fight in any other context.
I think people wouldn't hesitate to call out anyone if they did something like this, be it Tobi, Day[9] or whoever else. In addition I don't really understand how your analogy is applicable (even if we assume you meant 360 days). But I suppose I'm just being intellectually dishonest like most people on here.
Ok sorry I exaggerated, so even 1 day is ok I guess. It's not an analogy, it's exactly what is happening. Tobi is contracted for 5 days of casting. The prelim casts are not payed by Valve.
No they are not directly paid by valve, no one is saying Tobi should be valve's slave. You're being quite ridiculous. This however, does not mean that it wasn't a dick move.
On August 28 2012 13:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: On reddit
" To clarify some stuff, as obviously it needs to be done: valve notifies the streamers of the matches they will cast about 24hrs before the starting time I lodge my dispute instantly and am told the decisions will not be changed and I am free to stream using DOTA TV or cast the assigned game. We are not being paid at all for the group stage coverage and are doing it with our own time and resources Once at the US then they pay and I will go by their ruling This is not me being immature this is me asking for this stuff to be organised better (the whole professional side you are asking for), to consult the streamers alot more, and for streamers like myself and v1lat that commit alot of time to stream many DOTA2 events we do, yes, expect a certain lvl of game to be cast."
Yep, well he basically said it himself. He feels as if he deserves this or some shit.
Ok, let me bold this for you people that just aren't getting it.
He's not getting paid, so this is not part of his job. As the "premier" Dota 2 caster right now, he absolutely SHOULD get to cast just about any game he wants at this point in the tournament considering he's doing it for free, on his own time. If Vavle was paying him, then absolutely, he would be in the wrong. They are NOT paying him for this, so he should be able to cast whatever he wants. The guy is donating 12 hours+ a day for 3 days, and you people are bashing him because he doesn't want to cast yet another rofl-stomp. Seriously? Do you guys bashing him enjoy working for free too? And not only working for free, get bashed for being a little picky at what he does for free? Really???? I just don't get it. Be glad you have dedicated casters that donate 12+ hours a day of their own time, FOR FREE, for your entertainment. Seriously, just stfu.
On August 28 2012 16:16 Taku wrote: Wooow jesus christ reddit is retarded, I leave the internet for 3 hours and come back and they've turned into witchhunting tobi what the hell
eh it was kind of founded and fair complaints, tobi later admitted that he had done wrong and agreed with reddit and apologized.
You're such a bandwagoning non-blind eye turning witchhunter, omg I thought TL was better than this, not fucking jumping on karma train bandwagon other.
Most of you admit you don't watch Tobi's casts, that you always disliked him, then you get your pitchforks when he doesn't cast a game that you'd obviously wouldn't have watched. You base yourself on intellectually dishonest arguments (at least 90% of the posts about this), but it's ok because you're a bandwagon, nobody will notice. Really, it's Tobi's job ? I didn't knew that if you had a 5 days a year contract it allowed your boss to tell you what to do for the other 360 years "because you're an employee". You all use arguments that you would fight in any other context.
I think people wouldn't hesitate to call out anyone if they did something like this, be it Tobi, Day[9] or whoever else. In addition I don't really understand how your analogy is applicable (even if we assume you meant 360 days). But I suppose I'm just being intellectually dishonest like most people on here.
Ok sorry I exaggerated, so even 1 day is ok I guess. It's not an analogy, it's exactly what is happening. Tobi is contracted for 5 days of casting. The prelim casts are not payed by Valve.
No they are not directly paid by valve, no one is saying Tobi should be valve's slave. You're being quite ridiculous. This however, does not mean that it wasn't a dick move.
Before this Tobi witchhunt I had never seen a single bad thing written about his personality or commentary, only high praise for his commitment to dota. Now he behaves distastefully and suddenly its all "I don't know why they even let Tobi commentate, his knowledge of the game is so sub-par" and "I've always liked Luminous/Godz/whoever else better than Tobi." Read the comments on reddit if you need proof, fucking unbelievable sheep people.
On August 28 2012 16:22 LuckoftheIrish wrote: I think where your analogy falls apart is that Tobi is making money from the games, even if Valve isn't paying him directly. He's streaming them himself though own3d.tv and getting the ad revenue. Valve is providing him a product, which he's turning into ad sales. Without the games, he doesn't have a way to get the ad revenue.
Absolutely not. Anyone on the planet can log into these games and cast them on whatever stream they so desire. Valve is providing the product, FOR FREE, to everyone with a Steam account. They aren't giving tobi some special access or special privileges. HE ISN'T GETTING PAID. So no, they aren't providing him with any more of a product than literally anyone else on the planet. So they are entitled to exactly NOTHING from Tobi, or any other caster. Valve is the one getting more exposure through casters like Tobi, not vice-versa.
On August 28 2012 16:22 LuckoftheIrish wrote: I think where your analogy falls apart is that Tobi is making money from the games, even if Valve isn't paying him directly. He's streaming them himself though own3d.tv and getting the ad revenue. Valve is providing him a product, which he's turning into ad sales. Without the games, he doesn't have a way to get the ad revenue.
Indeed...And if he doesn't like Casting these Games then he should stop casting everything...Instead he starts casting the games in which he was Interested and still gets over 10K+ views on his Stream leaving his designated games without an english caster..That's Selfish above all things.
What the f kind of argument is that? He's casting for free, he can cast whatever the hell he likes. Oh noes, the poor games have no caster....you get off your high horse and cast it then, nothing is stopping you. What turned all of you people into entitled bandwagon jumpers?? Oh noes, if he doesn't cast this game FOR FREE, then he should just not cast anything !!! Really? He owes you, and Valve nothing for these games, he can cast someone praticising free-farming is a private game if he so feels like it.
On August 28 2012 13:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: On reddit
" To clarify some stuff, as obviously it needs to be done: valve notifies the streamers of the matches they will cast about 24hrs before the starting time I lodge my dispute instantly and am told the decisions will not be changed and I am free to stream using DOTA TV or cast the assigned game. We are not being paid at all for the group stage coverage and are doing it with our own time and resources Once at the US then they pay and I will go by their ruling This is not me being immature this is me asking for this stuff to be organised better (the whole professional side you are asking for), to consult the streamers alot more, and for streamers like myself and v1lat that commit alot of time to stream many DOTA2 events we do, yes, expect a certain lvl of game to be cast."
Yep, well he basically said it himself. He feels as if he deserves this or some shit.
Ok, let me bold this for you people that just aren't getting it.
He's not getting paid, so this is not part of his job. As the "premier" Dota 2 caster right now, he absolutely SHOULD get to cast just about any game he wants at this point in the tournament considering he's doing it for free, on his own time. If Vavle was paying him, then absolutely, he would be in the wrong. They are NOT paying him for this, so he should be able to cast whatever he wants. The guy is donating 12 hours+ a day for 3 days, and you people are bashing him because he doesn't want to cast yet another rofl-stomp. Seriously? Do you guys bashing him enjoy working for free too? And not only working for free, get bashed for being a little picky at what he does for free? Really???? I just don't get it. Be glad you have dedicated casters that donate 12+ hours a day of their own time, FOR FREE, for your entertainment. Seriously, just stfu.
That is exactly the other way around, if you didnt wanna do it because it is not paid, then gtfo and chill out but you don't go and ruin the scheduled casting. It is very selfish and a dick move because some of the games have no english casting because of what he did.
And then, yo, you didn't pay me to do this so i can mess around with you (ie VALVE). Wow, and then you expect Valve will welcome tobi warmly at Seattle when BS like this happened? It is about the basic social skills and the professionalism.
If you asked me luckily tobi is not a total retard and immediately apologized, be it sincere or not, at least the matter is resolved now.
On August 28 2012 13:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: On reddit
" To clarify some stuff, as obviously it needs to be done: valve notifies the streamers of the matches they will cast about 24hrs before the starting time I lodge my dispute instantly and am told the decisions will not be changed and I am free to stream using DOTA TV or cast the assigned game. We are not being paid at all for the group stage coverage and are doing it with our own time and resources Once at the US then they pay and I will go by their ruling This is not me being immature this is me asking for this stuff to be organised better (the whole professional side you are asking for), to consult the streamers alot more, and for streamers like myself and v1lat that commit alot of time to stream many DOTA2 events we do, yes, expect a certain lvl of game to be cast."
Yep, well he basically said it himself. He feels as if he deserves this or some shit.
Ok, let me bold this for you people that just aren't getting it.
He's not getting paid, so this is not part of his job. As the "premier" Dota 2 caster right now, he absolutely SHOULD get to cast just about any game he wants at this point in the tournament considering he's doing it for free, on his own time. If Vavle was paying him, then absolutely, he would be in the wrong. They are NOT paying him for this, so he should be able to cast whatever he wants. The guy is donating 12 hours+ a day for 3 days, and you people are bashing him because he doesn't want to cast yet another rofl-stomp. Seriously? Do you guys bashing him enjoy working for free too? And not only working for free, get bashed for being a little picky at what he does for free? Really???? I just don't get it. Be glad you have dedicated casters that donate 12+ hours a day of their own time, FOR FREE, for your entertainment. Seriously, just stfu.
They may not be paying him for this, but they have invited him to commentate the most prestigious Dota 2 tournament on the planet. Just because he is not being paid, it does not mean he is not receiving something from it. Its probably a good idea on his end to pull his head in and follow what valve says, even if he he complains to them privately.
On August 28 2012 16:22 LuckoftheIrish wrote: I think where your analogy falls apart is that Tobi is making money from the games, even if Valve isn't paying him directly. He's streaming them himself though own3d.tv and getting the ad revenue. Valve is providing him a product, which he's turning into ad sales. Without the games, he doesn't have a way to get the ad revenue.
Indeed...And if he doesn't like Casting these Games then he should stop casting everything...Instead he starts casting the games in which he was Interested and still gets over 10K+ views on his Stream leaving his designated games without an english caster..That's Selfish above all things.
What the f kind of argument is that? He's casting for free, he can cast whatever the hell he likes. Oh noes, the poor games have no caster....you get off your high horse and cast it then, nothing is stopping you. What turned all of you people into entitled bandwagon jumpers?? Oh noes, if he doesn't cast this game FOR FREE, then he should just not cast anything !!! Really? He owes you, and Valve nothing for these games, he can cast someone praticising free-farming is a private game if he so feels like it.
He is featured in the official website as official streamer. At dota2.com. He is getting exposure from this as well. Even as the popular caster that he is , not everyone in the world knows who he is.
Some people would be watching dota for the first time , goes to dota2.com, sees that he is casting the opening game and go to his stream. That's the reward. Exposure for both. And Valve has been giving him the headliners as well.
You can start casting TI2 games but Valve won't feature your stream on the official dota2 website that i'm sure are visited by millions.
And let's say everyone wants to cast CLG-EG later, then who will cast other games? Valve is just ensuring every team and every game get equal exposure from the official casters. Nothing wrong with that.
EPT
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