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On March 24 2013 07:04 MVTaylor wrote:Okay, i'll bite. You seem to be confused between the numbers 20 (the amount of minutes it took for QPAD/Liquid to enter pick ban) and 30 (the amount of minutes after Fnatic should have been playing in the DH Invitational but were actually still in a WePlay tournament).
Allegedly the rules state that after 15 minutes a 1-0 lead is given, 20 is greater than 15 right? Fnatic was the victim of one hour per game scheduling, the same thing that GDStudio did. Weplay even played their winners/losers games simultaneously in an effort to end the tournament sooner.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
By the way, is there any way to find the official rules? I want to see them, because I'm a nerd and because I want to call them out on breaking their own rules, if they're so adamant about them, I'm gonna be honest with you.
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On March 24 2013 07:12 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 07:04 MVTaylor wrote:On March 24 2013 06:51 the`postman wrote:Also, if "rules are rules" why wasn't anyone given a 1-0 lead in Qpad vs Liquid? The timestamp clearly shows that the matches started 20 minutes late. http://www.twitch.tv/thegdstudio/b/379346645 Okay, i'll bite. You seem to be confused between the numbers 20 (the amount of minutes it took for QPAD/Liquid to enter pick ban) and 30 (the amount of minutes after Fnatic should have been playing in the DH Invitational but were actually still in a WePlay tournament). The rules say 15 minutes - one game deff loss. 30 minutes - match loss. If you take it into the extreme, Liquid should've gotten a one game defloss. Honestly, we don't know the details. Maybe the 15/30 minutes only apply when the tourney admins don't hear anything from the team, but if they come and explain what's going on, it's fine.
If that were the case, Fnatic shouldn't have been penalized. They were being streamed and from what I've read so far, the casters seemed to know they were in game, and almost done.
According to what I read on Reddit, Dignitas requested a def win, which GD Studio gave them, because it was within Dignitas' rights according to the rules. Perhaps if QPAD requested a defloss for Liquid it would have been granted. But I reckon they would have angered a lot of viewers by doing so.
I don't like this situation one bit...
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It's kind of stupid how inflexible the rules are, I'm guessing they just assumed nobody was going to be a dick and actually request the defloss.
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Sick of reading about all the complaints about The GD Studio following their rules for this series. I won't comment on Liquid vs QPAD because I'm not well-enough informed on the situation.
15 and 30 minutes are too short for Dota 2? They are arbitrary numbers for the tournament, because that's just what the studio wanted to make them. Quit whining about them not representing actual match lengths. That doesn't fucking matter. If I show up 3 minutes late to work, then I'm late. It doesn't matter if my shift is 8 hours long and I wouldn't have even gotten started on anything in those 3 minutes. There was a time I was expected to start, and I simply didn't show up in time.
People set times for the sake of having a clear schedule. Nothing else that has been mentioned about match lengths, etc. actually matters or is relevant to The GD Studio's time penalties.
It's kind of stupid how inflexible the rules are, I'm guessing they just assumed nobody was going to be a dick and actually request the defloss.
They wouldn't be called rules otherwise.
And one more thing, since some people wanted The GD Studio to arrange some sort of compromise. The line needs to be drawn at some point otherwise the same shit is going to happen over and over again. This won't be the end of over-scheduling by teams, and it won't be the only time we see something like this, but hopefully the frequency at which teams like to dick around and show up late will decrease.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On March 24 2013 07:16 Chezus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 07:12 cecek wrote:On March 24 2013 07:04 MVTaylor wrote:On March 24 2013 06:51 the`postman wrote:Also, if "rules are rules" why wasn't anyone given a 1-0 lead in Qpad vs Liquid? The timestamp clearly shows that the matches started 20 minutes late. http://www.twitch.tv/thegdstudio/b/379346645 Okay, i'll bite. You seem to be confused between the numbers 20 (the amount of minutes it took for QPAD/Liquid to enter pick ban) and 30 (the amount of minutes after Fnatic should have been playing in the DH Invitational but were actually still in a WePlay tournament). The rules say 15 minutes - one game deff loss. 30 minutes - match loss. If you take it into the extreme, Liquid should've gotten a one game defloss. Honestly, we don't know the details. Maybe the 15/30 minutes only apply when the tourney admins don't hear anything from the team, but if they come and explain what's going on, it's fine. If that were the case, Fnatic shouldn't have been penalized. They were being streamed and from what I've read so far, the casters seemed to know they were in game, and almost done. According to what I read on Reddit, Dignitas requested a def win, which GD Studio gave them, because it was within Dignitas' rights according to the rules. Perhaps if QPAD requested a defloss for Liquid it would have been granted. But I reckon they would have angered a lot of viewers by doing so. I don't like this situation one bit...
I don't know how I feel about that. If they allow their tournament games to get delayed(if both teams agree), they have to understand that it can happen in other tournaments, too. Yet they see fit to give a team deffloss when they're playing a game that was delayed by a different tournament. If your tournament can cause a team to forfeit a match in a tournament with identical rules, then your rules are bad. If you want to get so hardcore on your rules and make team ff matches after 40 minutes, you shouldn't allow delays even if both teams agree on it.
This tweet by Trance makes no fucking sense now:
"Cristian Tamaş @Trancez0r 1h
Dota2 pro community needs to grow a pair & accept consequences to their actions otherwise it will never be a truly professional environment."
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On March 24 2013 06:51 the`postman wrote:Also, if "rules are rules" why wasn't anyone given a 1-0 lead in Qpad vs Liquid? The timestamp clearly shows that the matches started 20 minutes late. http://www.twitch.tv/thegdstudio/b/379346645
Where is the evidence that either Qpad or Liquid were late? Can you show that either team was late instead of the GD Studio delaying the match by providing content beforehand?
EDIT: Actually, no, sorry, you're completely wrong to think that there is evidence of the GD Studio not following the rules in the past. At 19:16 CET, right after a five minute video was shown, Draskyl said "We're going to be going into the game now, it looks like everyone's here." So it's very likely that each team was in place during the showing of the video. At the very least, there's no evidence at all that either team was late.
I know, though, given the posts you've been making, that you are desperate to show that the GD Studio is somehow at fault. What will your next argument be?
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On March 24 2013 07:32 motbob wrote:Where is the evidence that either Qpad or Liquid were late? Can you show that either team was late instead of the GD Studio delaying the match by providing content beforehand?
13:22
Also, if there is nothing wrong with delaying a match by providing content beforehand then what is wrong with today's matches being delayed by an excellent wagamama interview and pregame analysis?
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
On March 24 2013 07:30 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 07:16 Chezus wrote:On March 24 2013 07:12 cecek wrote:On March 24 2013 07:04 MVTaylor wrote:On March 24 2013 06:51 the`postman wrote:Also, if "rules are rules" why wasn't anyone given a 1-0 lead in Qpad vs Liquid? The timestamp clearly shows that the matches started 20 minutes late. http://www.twitch.tv/thegdstudio/b/379346645 Okay, i'll bite. You seem to be confused between the numbers 20 (the amount of minutes it took for QPAD/Liquid to enter pick ban) and 30 (the amount of minutes after Fnatic should have been playing in the DH Invitational but were actually still in a WePlay tournament). The rules say 15 minutes - one game deff loss. 30 minutes - match loss. If you take it into the extreme, Liquid should've gotten a one game defloss. Honestly, we don't know the details. Maybe the 15/30 minutes only apply when the tourney admins don't hear anything from the team, but if they come and explain what's going on, it's fine. If that were the case, Fnatic shouldn't have been penalized. They were being streamed and from what I've read so far, the casters seemed to know they were in game, and almost done. According to what I read on Reddit, Dignitas requested a def win, which GD Studio gave them, because it was within Dignitas' rights according to the rules. Perhaps if QPAD requested a defloss for Liquid it would have been granted. But I reckon they would have angered a lot of viewers by doing so. I don't like this situation one bit... I don't know how I feel about that. If they allow their tournament games to get delayed(if both teams agree), they have to understand that it can happen in other tournaments, too. Yet they see fit to give a team deffloss when they're playing a game that was delayed by a different tournament. If your tournament can cause a team to forfeit a match in a tournament with identical rules, then your rules are bad. If you want to get so hardcore on your rules and make team ff matches after 40 minutes, you shouldn't allow delays even if both teams agree on it. This tweet by Trance makes no fucking sense now: "Cristian Tamaş @Trancez0r 1h Dota2 pro community needs to grow a pair & accept consequences to their actions otherwise it will never be a truly professional environment." You cancel matches, it's your tournament which will get shit. Not the teams. It's their tournament, their money, their product. People act like the Dota scene is a catastrophe, and I don't know what they're watching, I watch a lot of Dota and it runs quite smooth for the most part.
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I like the gdstudio but I really think they're being far too strict in this. They say it's because 'they're not 2 guys on skype', but then you need to take more efforts than anyone else to make sure there're no problems. I don't think the western scene is at that point where any Tournament commands that kind of respect, the money just isn't there, and gdstudio expect to be in prime-time every day. Not going to work. Either be more flexible, or disappoint your viewers. Or host a $30,000 tournament to make people cancel matches for you.
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This tournament have too many walkovers for such a small encounter, glad i didn't buy a ticket and didn't get cheated. Rofl i didn't even know this game was supposed to happen today, very poor advertising.
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On March 24 2013 07:41 renfree wrote:
This tournament have too many walkovers for such a small encounter, glad i didn't buy a ticket and didn't get cheated. Rofl i didn't even know this game was supposed to happen today, very poor advertising.
But yet you managed to find this thread which, in the OP, says when all the remaining group stage matches will be. Figures.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On March 24 2013 07:50 MVTaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 07:41 renfree wrote:
This tournament have too many walkovers for such a small encounter, glad i didn't buy a ticket and didn't get cheated. Rofl i didn't even know this game was supposed to happen today, very poor advertising. But yet you managed to find this thread which, in the OP, says when all the remaining group stage matches will be. Figures.
To be fair, this is literally the only place on the internet that had the correct time until recently. Joindota and Gosugamers both had Dig. vs Fnatic match slated for tomorrow.
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I don't know who is to blame but it feels like this situation was avoidable
As a customer I hope that they can work something out to avoid disappointments like this
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So!
NTH v Fnatic.eu thoughts?
Edit: Afterhoughts on timeout victory
+ Show Spoiler +No one generally wants to miss games and have them not played. As for some teams being late and its fine and others not, I would guess it has to do with the opposing team as well if they want the win or to wait. In fighting tournaments if theres an accidental pause, the rules say its a forfeit of the round, and I've seen plenty of players take it but I've also seen plenty say "let it rock" and just unpause and go.
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Those of you that say the 30 mins rule is too strict need to understand that without reliable schedules the audience would never grow beyond the hardcore playerbase. I can't invite people to drink a beer and watch a game of Dota knowing there is high chance it would be rescheduled, or wait for an hour watching dead air with no guarantee that the game will ever start at all.
A lot of people can't be constantly glued to the screen and have to rearrange their schedules in order to watch a game; it's effectively the same for them if the game is cancelled or just delayed as they wouldn't be able to watch it either way. Most professional shows would want to keep those people as viewers as they tend to have higher disposable incomes and are juicier targets for the advertisers. And in the end, it's all about the higher ad revenue.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
gyk by that logic they shouldn't allow a 30 second delay.
What people are saying with 30 minutes being too strict is that it's just an arbitrary time. If it was the length of time of a typical game+draft+setup then it would still keep the entire show in the same time-block if you give the late team a 1 game loss. As the production team and the opponent should have already been committed to be on during that time anyway.
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Anyone know if fly will be playing with fnatic? they do very poorly without him.
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On March 24 2013 07:50 MVTaylor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2013 07:41 renfree wrote:
This tournament have too many walkovers for such a small encounter, glad i didn't buy a ticket and didn't get cheated. Rofl i didn't even know this game was supposed to happen today, very poor advertising. But yet you managed to find this thread which, in the OP, says when all the remaining group stage matches will be. Figures.
I checked this thread 2 days ago, and there was zero of matches scheduled.
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I actually really like what GD studio is doing with the disqualification, especially since such high profile western teams are involved. They're setting a professional tone in the Western dota that is regarded as a hobby rather than a profession. Does the punishment seem overboard? Yeah, but that's the point. Without drawing a line and making a statement, status quo will remain the same.
Don't really like the statement that GD studio is making? Just watch another league, Western dota has plenty of leagues to choose from. For every one game that iG plays, fnatic.eu probably plays like 10 games.
Edit: pretty much what garlicface said.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 24 2013 07:30 garlicface wrote:Sick of reading about all the complaints about The GD Studio following their rules for this series. I won't comment on Liquid vs QPAD because I'm not well-enough informed on the situation. 15 and 30 minutes are too short for Dota 2? They are arbitrary numbers for the tournament, because that's just what the studio wanted to make them. Quit whining about them not representing actual match lengths. That doesn't fucking matter. If I show up 3 minutes late to work, then I'm late. It doesn't matter if my shift is 8 hours long and I wouldn't have even gotten started on anything in those 3 minutes. There was a time I was expected to start, and I simply didn't show up in time. People set times for the sake of having a clear schedule. Nothing else that has been mentioned about match lengths, etc. actually matters or is relevant to The GD Studio's time penalties. Show nested quote +It's kind of stupid how inflexible the rules are, I'm guessing they just assumed nobody was going to be a dick and actually request the defloss. They wouldn't be called rules otherwise. And one more thing, since some people wanted The GD Studio to arrange some sort of compromise. The line needs to be drawn at some point otherwise the same shit is going to happen over and over again. This won't be the end of over-scheduling by teams, and it won't be the only time we see something like this, but hopefully the frequency at which teams like to dick around and show up late will decrease.
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United Kingdom24425 Posts
I actually really like what GD studio is doing with the disqualification, especially since such high profile western teams are involved. They're setting a professional tone in the Western dota that is regarded as a hobby rather than a profession. Does the punishment seem overboard? Yeah, but that's the point. Without drawing a line and making a statement, status quo will remain the same. They're not setting any standard, many tournaments have these rules currently or have had them in the past. TPL, SL, BigPoint, Play4Dota, EMS, Gosuleague have all given defwins for opponents not being able to show up on time usually because of double booking, although it's usually resolved with rescheduling.
In fact TPL constantly gets shit for having a strict schedule and making teams forfeit or delay games to play in TPL.
And those are just the ones I could easily find examples for with a quick google search.
But people easily forget that because those tournaments all have tons of matches. People should really drop the idea that this tournament is somehow 'the only ones doing it right'. The only ones doing it right are the ones you don't have discussions about the rules or schedule for.
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No one would question that teams shouldn't have to sit around for ages waiting for their opponents and get nothing for it, and there's few leagues in Dota that do that.
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EPT
