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+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/W55Xq8k.png) Team DK vs. Invictus Gaming ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pLi7IOF.png)
The International 2013 Upper Bracket Round 1D Game 3
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On August 09 2013 10:22 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I just want DK to lose out of spite at this point.
?? because they made the right choice in the game because they were barely ahead at all? They screwed up by not BDing or going for 5 necrobook or other strats that work when gold isn't an issue.
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On August 09 2013 10:20 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:10 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 09 2013 10:05 tree.hugger wrote:
I dunno, you guys are awfully uptight. The crowd and casters were trying to have fun with the game, and all I read here are super serious people finger wagging. That game was stupidly wrong, both teams were playing absurdly safe even when the game didn't rest on a knife's edge. Korean casters were just as frustrated, they were cursing at the game. I'm sure a lot of people here preferred them because they just didn't understand what they were saying.
The crowd was exhausted but having fun. Casters were tired and frustrated, but having fun with it. Nobody's feelings were hurt. The game was on a knife's edge. DK tried barreling mid around 30 min into the game but iG splitpushed ridiculously well. Remember how DK had to sacrifice two tier 2 towers for 1 tier 2 tower despite having a bear? Remember how DK nearly lost their top tier 3 just by pushing mid? Even when DK had a considerable gold/exp lead, Zhou's Rapier shredded Syllabear's bear, making 2/3 of Burning's net worth useless. Comparing Ayesee's commentary with Tobi's LGD vs iG and BTS' iG vs LGD.Int highlights just how unprofessional it comes off as. This. You can't call a game stupidly wrong just because the game seems different from the way most Western Dota games go. The game has a lot of playstyles you can run and it's ridiculous to use "entertainment value" as a metric when $2.8M is on the line. The fault of Ayesee's commentary is that instead of taking the opportunity to enlighten a crowd ignorant about Eastern Dota like Synderen usually does as a student of the game, he had the effect of egging the crowd on as if there were something wrong with the way the game was being played.
Can I marry you?
Thanks for putting it the way you did. <3
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On August 09 2013 10:18 TheYango wrote:
Honestly the only reason this game lasted so long was because the Rapier caused DK to freak out and not push because Rapier nullifies enormous gold advantages.
Realistically, the game could have ended 30 minutes earlier if Rapier didn't exist (because then DK would never have pussied out about pushing top lane and iG would never have had the ability to win a fight there), but I don't think most people want that. Rapier is too entertaining when teams use it incorrectly, but when teams properly use Rapier it turns games into this.
Thing is, rapier on the other hand is one of the last hopes of coming back and turn the game around. Most of the time, either the rapier carrier dies pretty anticlimatic or the game gets turned around, but rarely I see games like this where it ends in a stalemate. I don't know, just accepting these games happen once in about 1000 games rather than changing something drastically in the late game seems to me as the way to go, since someone already pointed out, the lategame is already volatile as hell.
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On August 09 2013 10:22 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:21 jigga wrote:On August 09 2013 10:17 Shadowpostin wrote:On August 09 2013 10:16 r.Evo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:14 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:11 r.Evo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:08 JayJay_90 wrote:On August 09 2013 10:07 djaoni wrote:
It's the crowd that is awful, not Ayesee. He just did what they wanted him to. WTF?! The crowd was awesome and Aysee was handling the situation brilliantly. I'd rather have teams try their best to win no matter what it takes than seeing them play to please the crowd. Basically telling them they suck for trying their best to win more than a million is unprofessional as fuck. Show some manners. No, it's unproffesional to walk circles in your own jungle for 30 minutes because you don't have a game plan. They didn't try their best, they tried nothing at all... Ayesee did fine. So being unsure of what to do in a tough situation isn't allowed for the best teams in the world? Obviously both teams just did that to annoy the crap out of you, how silly to believe it might have been about winning TI3. actually it's not that they weren't unsure of what they want to do they just knew they lost and there was little they could do to win.it must be fucked up playing such a long game and than suddenly realizing you can't win They weren't lost, that is just how China dota games go when it goes super late. The team to make the first mistake loses and loses almost instantly. That is why they play so safe. They have done this shit for YEARS. The whole of 2009-2010 was played like that, with 90 minute games and one huge teamfight deciding everything. To say they didn't have a gameplan is just not understanding Chinese dota. That's how EVERY Dota lategame goes. It's just that the western teams tend to fuck up way before that and lose right there in comparison.
Has nothing to do with fucking up or not.
They literally just avoided fighting each other for half an hour.
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idk i dont see dk having many towers by 20 minutes
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Man I could have actually took a nap. When I saw DK killing shit early on, I thought ok its going to be a short game. TL MUFC next. If I napped, I could easily catch 2 hours :O
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
iG pushing this shit, they don't want 90min game anymore
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On August 09 2013 10:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:20 Numy wrote:On August 09 2013 10:18 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 09 2013 10:11 TheYango wrote:On August 09 2013 10:09 Numy wrote:On August 09 2013 10:08 TheYango wrote:On August 09 2013 10:05 LittLeD wrote:On August 09 2013 10:04 UniversalSnip wrote:On August 09 2013 10:01 killerdog wrote:
This can't be good advertising for dota 2 in korea though, leagues about to start and this is their first taste of dota, and they get the casters sitting there bored out of their minds writing "puck ig" on the map,
seriously, games like this are gonna be a huge turnoff for potential players... there should be a mechanism to prevent games going this way. This is DotA. 80+ minute games has been a part of this game for as long as the game itself has existed. If you take that away, you won't have DotA anymore. Actually, Icefrog's tried for years to make games shorter and NOT have these games happen. Buyback changes? Staggered TP channel times? Smoke? All of those changes were geared toward shifting the game away from these long games. I wonder, don't you feel like Buyback changes actually made late game even more unstable? It's just games don't tend to go that far anymore. It makes games in the 40-60 minute range more likely to end immediately because you can't defend high ground with double/triple buyback from a single hero. Repeated buybacks only help the defending team because the attacking team can only TP back into the fight once anyway, barring a few specific heroes. I still find buybacks bullshit when a team is diving a tower, get a few kills, then they buyback and get like 4 kills in return by tping back into the fight. Shouldn't be able to tp right after a buyback imo. I think the main reason for buybacks is so the game just doesn't end after 1 pickoff anticlimactically. Well often times a team that keeps "winning fights" with buybacks falls too far behind due to having to expend buybacks in order to win fights. It's a very steep slope that if you don't make work you land up further behind than when you started. I disagree... most times when I see buybacks used in the midgame it favors the team in the lead. For one, it's usually the farmed team with buybacks available. Also, usually the team with more towers can TP back into the fight. Then there's also the fact that usually buybacking into fights then wiping the other team usually leads into VERY worthwhile trades. Roshan, towers, etc.
Generally if a team is leading they don't have to constantly buyback to win fights. You aren't saying anything contrary to what I said you just talking about if a team is leading instead of one using buybacks defensively on the back foot to win fights.
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On August 09 2013 10:22 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:15 Colston wrote:On August 09 2013 10:11 r.Evo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:08 JayJay_90 wrote:On August 09 2013 10:07 djaoni wrote:
It's the crowd that is awful, not Ayesee. He just did what they wanted him to. WTF?! The crowd was awesome and Aysee was handling the situation brilliantly. I'd rather have teams try their best to win no matter what it takes than seeing them play to please the crowd. Basically telling them they suck for trying their best to win more than a million is unprofessional as fuck. Show some manners. Nope, it's not unprofessional at all. I'm pretty sure it's more important for Valve that the people watching like their game, more than it is that someone gets a million. Wish they'd remove a certain percentage of the prize money for that last game if either DK or IG win. And do the same to other teams waiting 20 mins before they even go look for a pick off. The game was more than worth it just to see this little gem of comment.
What? Dude, I know it's knee-jerk, I'm just pissed off at this boring shit dota. Hope none of these teams win.
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Well IG isn't wasting time with pushing.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
CHUAN FIRST BLOOD
PRESSURING T2 ALREADY
LETS GO
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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More kills already than the first ~30 min of game 2.
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On August 09 2013 10:24 Colston wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:22 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On August 09 2013 10:15 Colston wrote:On August 09 2013 10:11 r.Evo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:08 JayJay_90 wrote:On August 09 2013 10:07 djaoni wrote:
It's the crowd that is awful, not Ayesee. He just did what they wanted him to. WTF?! The crowd was awesome and Aysee was handling the situation brilliantly. I'd rather have teams try their best to win no matter what it takes than seeing them play to please the crowd. Basically telling them they suck for trying their best to win more than a million is unprofessional as fuck. Show some manners. Nope, it's not unprofessional at all. I'm pretty sure it's more important for Valve that the people watching like their game, more than it is that someone gets a million. Wish they'd remove a certain percentage of the prize money for that last game if either DK or IG win. And do the same to other teams waiting 20 mins before they even go look for a pick off. The game was more than worth it just to see this little gem of comment. What? Dude, I know it's knee-jerk, I'm just pissed off at this boring shit dota. Hope none of these teams win.
LOL....
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On August 09 2013 10:22 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:19 SKC wrote:On August 09 2013 10:18 TheYango wrote:
Honestly the only reason this game lasted so long was because the Raplier caused DK to freak out and not push because Rapier nullifies enormous gold advantages.
Realistically, the game could have ended 30 minutes earlier if Rapier didn't exist, but I don't think most people want that. Rapier is too entertaining when teams use it incorrectly, but when teams properly use Rapier it turns games into this. Rapier isn't only entertaining when used incorrectly, several great Rapier games happened with good play from the team that was behind and bought a Rapier. Very, very few Rapier games turn into this. Rapiers are essentially sudden death, and it only ends games like that because people march willingly to their loss in that sudden death. When both teams recognize this, I think this game is actually the natural outcome.
Well, that's not really incorrect usage of the Rapier, maybe incorrect play by the opposing team. If the team won, it's safe to say the Rapier was used correctly.
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On August 09 2013 10:22 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 10:21 jigga wrote:On August 09 2013 10:17 Shadowpostin wrote:On August 09 2013 10:16 r.Evo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:14 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:11 r.Evo wrote:On August 09 2013 10:08 JayJay_90 wrote:On August 09 2013 10:07 djaoni wrote:
It's the crowd that is awful, not Ayesee. He just did what they wanted him to. WTF?! The crowd was awesome and Aysee was handling the situation brilliantly. I'd rather have teams try their best to win no matter what it takes than seeing them play to please the crowd. Basically telling them they suck for trying their best to win more than a million is unprofessional as fuck. Show some manners. No, it's unproffesional to walk circles in your own jungle for 30 minutes because you don't have a game plan. They didn't try their best, they tried nothing at all... Ayesee did fine. So being unsure of what to do in a tough situation isn't allowed for the best teams in the world? Obviously both teams just did that to annoy the crap out of you, how silly to believe it might have been about winning TI3. actually it's not that they weren't unsure of what they want to do they just knew they lost and there was little they could do to win.it must be fucked up playing such a long game and than suddenly realizing you can't win They weren't lost, that is just how China dota games go when it goes super late. The team to make the first mistake loses and loses almost instantly. That is why they play so safe. They have done this shit for YEARS. The whole of 2009-2010 was played like that, with 90 minute games and one huge teamfight deciding everything. To say they didn't have a gameplan is just not understanding Chinese dota. That's how EVERY Dota lategame goes. It's just that the western teams tend to fuck up way before that and lose right there in comparison.
Or perhaps that western dota teams push advantages (sometimes too zealously) and doesn't play defensive dota for 90 minutes waiting for that one fight.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WBR7CPZ.png)
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