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Germany25658 Posts
On August 10 2013 12:01 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:57 MCDayC wrote:On August 10 2013 11:57 KadaverBB wrote:On August 10 2013 11:56 MCDayC wrote:On August 10 2013 11:55 KadaverBB wrote:On August 10 2013 11:53 AgentW wrote:On August 10 2013 11:53 KadaverBB wrote:
Gogo pudge! You are half-way there already fnatic! Isn't it improper for you to be flame baiting?  I'm just posting as a fan right now awesome icon, congrats on the blue name btw  Thanks ^^ was it for anything super specific, or just really good work? He sold his soul for TL+++ which gives a blue name
Shhhhhh
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On August 10 2013 11:59 gLhF.Revere wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:56 Gevna wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 goody153 wrote:
this is ridiculous i dont really understand why people complain about chen-pudge combo and asking for nerfs ... this is why this game is popular ,.. maybe the one who complained are new to this and expected this game to be something like sc2 or bw "this is why this game is popular". uh no. To me it is, if I wanted a fade game with everything linear, toned down I would play lol. But there are a lot of weird things, OP stuff which makes this game amazing. Anyway I don't even know why everybody is whining about fountain hooks, because it was Tong fu's fault not capitalizing enough when they had their advantage, and letting Hvost farming like mad men. Sure fountain hooks are flashy, but it was just a cleaver strategy to buy time for Hvost, killing one random hero every 5 minutes is not turning a game around. Nobody has answered this question. What could Tongfu have done to win that game?
A number of things, all covered previously, including counter pick pudge and shut him down.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
Clearly the bottle nerf needs to be stronger
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WHAT! A COURIER SURVIVES!
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Russian Federation4447 Posts
Man if this strategy was so imbalanced and easy to do why didn't Fnatic pick pudge?
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On August 10 2013 11:59 gLhF.Revere wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:56 Gevna wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 goody153 wrote:
this is ridiculous i dont really understand why people complain about chen-pudge combo and asking for nerfs ... this is why this game is popular ,.. maybe the one who complained are new to this and expected this game to be something like sc2 or bw "this is why this game is popular". uh no. To me it is, if I wanted a fade game with everything linear, toned down I would play lol. But there are a lot of weird things, OP stuff which makes this game amazing. Anyway I don't even know why everybody is whining about fountain hooks, because it was Tong fu's fault not capitalizing enough when they had their advantage, and letting Hvost farming like mad men. Sure fountain hooks are flashy, but it was just a cleaver strategy to buy time for Hvost, killing one random hero every 5 minutes is not turning a game around. Nobody has answered this question. What could Tongfu have done to win that game?
Contest map awareness from beginning. Winning the 4v4s when pudge took one with him. Or just dodge the critical hook.
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On August 10 2013 12:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:59 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 10 2013 11:56 Gevna wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 goody153 wrote:
this is ridiculous i dont really understand why people complain about chen-pudge combo and asking for nerfs ... this is why this game is popular ,.. maybe the one who complained are new to this and expected this game to be something like sc2 or bw "this is why this game is popular". uh no. To me it is, if I wanted a fade game with everything linear, toned down I would play lol. But there are a lot of weird things, OP stuff which makes this game amazing. Anyway I don't even know why everybody is whining about fountain hooks, because it was Tong fu's fault not capitalizing enough when they had their advantage, and letting Hvost farming like mad men. Sure fountain hooks are flashy, but it was just a cleaver strategy to buy time for Hvost, killing one random hero every 5 minutes is not turning a game around. Nobody has answered this question. What could Tongfu have done to win that game? A number of things, all covered previously, including counter pick pudge and shut him down.
I think they counter picked him pretty well, its just that passive Chinese Dota style that cost them
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THAT was clutch NP TP, jesus I thought that was FB
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51103 Posts
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Russian Federation3339 Posts
On August 10 2013 11:58 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:57 Bisu-Fan wrote:On August 10 2013 11:33 xyzz wrote:I tend to be towards the bottom, you play to win, I mean how many cheese outs have we seen in major SC2 games? Tons I have yet to see any 'creative special strategies' in SC2 where if you can time 2 abilities well you one shot the enemy army. Every argument that 'this is hard' are ridiculous. It's not hard for the best players in the world since they do this every day all the time. Then why isn't pudge banned EVERY game? Because he sucks as a hero... He was relevant back like in TI1... Everyone goes crazy when pudge is picked because he isn't a very viable hero in this game right now... He has quite good win ratio this TI?
He has (according to dota-academy... in bruno i trust) 2 picks this TI... both by dendi... both wins... so yes he has a good win ratio but it's not a big data pool... and the fact that it's so abusable by "all pros" but only picked twice (and banned only against Na'Vi) must indicate something...
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On August 10 2013 12:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:59 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 10 2013 11:56 Gevna wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 goody153 wrote:
this is ridiculous i dont really understand why people complain about chen-pudge combo and asking for nerfs ... this is why this game is popular ,.. maybe the one who complained are new to this and expected this game to be something like sc2 or bw "this is why this game is popular". uh no. To me it is, if I wanted a fade game with everything linear, toned down I would play lol. But there are a lot of weird things, OP stuff which makes this game amazing. Anyway I don't even know why everybody is whining about fountain hooks, because it was Tong fu's fault not capitalizing enough when they had their advantage, and letting Hvost farming like mad men. Sure fountain hooks are flashy, but it was just a cleaver strategy to buy time for Hvost, killing one random hero every 5 minutes is not turning a game around. Nobody has answered this question. What could Tongfu have done to win that game? A number of things, all covered previously, including counter pick pudge and shut him down.
Noob question: does hook go through BKB? Could they have just BKB'd and charged? I honestly don't know the game well enough to know if this stuff would work.
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THAT TREANT BLOCK CHANGED EVERYTHING
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On August 10 2013 11:57 iv~nk~j wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:53 big_shark wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 10 2013 11:46 BongChambers wrote:On August 10 2013 11:44 gLhF.Revere wrote:
If it's fountain hooks aren't gimmicky, could someone explain to me what Tongfu could've done to win? To sum it up short, they were scared shit less to do anything to capitalize when Pudge missed his hooks. It was Tungfu's game to win or lose, Na'Vi the experience beasts that they are, were able to play patiently and come out on top in the end due to Tongfu's passive play. Thanks for the non-answer. Pudge misses hook. And Na'Vi is 2 screens away from where Dendi just was sent back from. What can Tongfu do? Ban pudge, ban chen, have one of there supports focused on eating the fountain hook in a team fight, blocking pudge LOS with creeps or gargoyles. NaVi created a tactic and people are butthurt that there isn't some pre-created tactic to counter it. Time will tell if it is truely OP or not. you know you've lost when your argument for how to counter-play the exploit abuse is to ban the heroes that are needed to do it
You know you've lost the arguement when you want something that only one team in the world has managed to pull off in one game against a team that threw the game by playing too passively nerfed.
Dendi is literally the best Pudge player in the world, playing with a top 3 Chen, and then it was more TongFu's loss than Na'Vi's win. If Fountain Hooking was a problem Pudge/Chen would be instabanned like Wisp is.
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On August 10 2013 11:55 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:52 Tien wrote:On August 10 2013 11:50 superstartran wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 anonymitylol wrote:On August 10 2013 11:46 TanKLoveR wrote:On August 10 2013 11:43 trinxified wrote:On August 10 2013 11:42 TanKLoveR wrote:On August 10 2013 11:40 Fruscainte wrote:On August 10 2013 11:38 TanKLoveR wrote:
Ugh you people seriously are ....
You're all about gimicky bs, "OPA DENDI OPA XD!!" like this hook or freaking Ursa and meepo ugh. What a ton of crap, that was a disgusting game and Na'Vi should be ashamed. But nope, everyone stood and screamed and clapped at such a shameful display, there was no skill, no team play just fucking luck. I hope Alliance destroys these people tomorrow, I look forward to it. OH NO PEOPLE ARE PLAYING TO WIN IN A 1.4 MILLION DOLLAR FIRST PRIZE TOURNAMENT A BLOO BLOO BLOO :| It's not even about Na'Vi doing anything they can to win even if its completely retarded and turned me off from supporting them, it's the fact that people are celebrating this kind of BS. That "victory" was 100% luck, Na'Vi displayed NO skill in that match. You think Navi cares that you don't support them anymore when they can win 1.4 million? No they don't give a shit, and I don't give a shit about them now. That was complete crap, it's literally the same as people celebrating and cheering for Idra swearing, calling people names and early GGing. People around here are little kids, so easily pleased by shitty behavior. but when [A] picks kotl pl it's all hunky-dory for mr. dedicated [A] fan! double standards 4ever The difference is that you have to outplay your opponents first to get into a position to abuse PL/Kotl. With fountain hooking, you can be losing the game and hit maybe 2-3 key ones and turn the entire game around. Do you even play dota? Fountain hooking is the most impossible thing to ever coordinate and pull off. There's only 2 players in the world that could pull it off in a pro game. If they're that good, hats off to them. Stop crying If this was IXDL I'd call 1v1 for a temp ban. Unfourtanately it's not. From a player's perspective, there's no one here that would argue that they would feel that the fountain hooking isn't bullshit. If you lost to it, you know you'd be bitching about it 100%, especially in a tournament with this much money on the line. It's 'within the rules' but whether or not it's 'fair' is another. IceFrog probably didn't expect anyone to really have the coordination to pull this off, but he'll likely take a look after this. And remember, unless it's 'IceFrog confirmed' it can be changed. A dev confirming an intended change means nothing.
All those posts from TankLover are just disgusting, especially comparing this strat to Idra bming, gging out early (ironic)?
And speak for yourself. You hated it, myself and lots of other people were insanely entertained by something different, and by a high risk/reward strat. How dare those "idiots" in the audience get excited too right, we should all be allmighty and biased like you.
And saying that this takes no skill or teamwork to pull of is just ignorant. It may be cheesy, but you can make this argument for lots of strats.
With regards to your post, I'd argue that fountain hooking isn't BS, it's a strat that's rarely seen. It must be either too hard to pull of or too risky, meaning that it can be defeated. If it was a bs easy mode cheese strat it would have been used more often id think.
It may be based on some luck, but I think Dendi minimized this factor. And for NaVi to bring this out in such an important game, I'm sure they knew what they were doing as opposed to going in with hopes of getting lucky to win...
And gogo TL
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Ohayo blocks has been superb this tournament.
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EPT
