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For all CRYING
:BAN PUDGE - ONLY Na'VI plays it . only Na'Vi can pull that comeback..and ppl cry .. jesus
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On August 10 2013 12:03 dtz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:02 AgentW wrote:On August 10 2013 12:02 Plansix wrote:On August 10 2013 11:59 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 10 2013 11:56 Gevna wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 goody153 wrote:
this is ridiculous i dont really understand why people complain about chen-pudge combo and asking for nerfs ... this is why this game is popular ,.. maybe the one who complained are new to this and expected this game to be something like sc2 or bw "this is why this game is popular". uh no. To me it is, if I wanted a fade game with everything linear, toned down I would play lol. But there are a lot of weird things, OP stuff which makes this game amazing. Anyway I don't even know why everybody is whining about fountain hooks, because it was Tong fu's fault not capitalizing enough when they had their advantage, and letting Hvost farming like mad men. Sure fountain hooks are flashy, but it was just a cleaver strategy to buy time for Hvost, killing one random hero every 5 minutes is not turning a game around. Nobody has answered this question. What could Tongfu have done to win that game? A number of things, all covered previously, including counter pick pudge and shut him down. Noob question: does hook go through BKB? Could they have just BKB'd and charged? I honestly don't know the game well enough to know if this stuff would work. No it doesnt block.
Okay, good to know. So even if they charge and get hooked, it's still 4v4. Since they were bigger and stronger, could they have just forced an engagement?
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On August 10 2013 11:59 gLhF.Revere wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:56 Gevna wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 goody153 wrote:
this is ridiculous i dont really understand why people complain about chen-pudge combo and asking for nerfs ... this is why this game is popular ,.. maybe the one who complained are new to this and expected this game to be something like sc2 or bw "this is why this game is popular". uh no. To me it is, if I wanted a fade game with everything linear, toned down I would play lol. But there are a lot of weird things, OP stuff which makes this game amazing. Anyway I don't even know why everybody is whining about fountain hooks, because it was Tong fu's fault not capitalizing enough when they had their advantage, and letting Hvost farming like mad men. Sure fountain hooks are flashy, but it was just a cleaver strategy to buy time for Hvost, killing one random hero every 5 minutes is not turning a game around. Nobody has answered this question. What could Tongfu have done to win that game?
Press the issue after every failed hook? Push, chase Navi instead of falling back. Spent your 10min of being ahead with acquiring mobility items instead of relying on walking after the enemy. Guard your crucial heroes with readily available Visage birds or your supports. Actually win the fight even if one of your supports got hooked, because you were still tremendously ahead?
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The SC2 drama queens have invade. We must stop them.
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On August 10 2013 12:06 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:05 Colston wrote:On August 10 2013 12:03 iokke wrote:On August 10 2013 11:55 superstartran wrote:On August 10 2013 11:52 Tien wrote:On August 10 2013 11:50 superstartran wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 anonymitylol wrote:On August 10 2013 11:46 TanKLoveR wrote:On August 10 2013 11:43 trinxified wrote:On August 10 2013 11:42 TanKLoveR wrote:
[quote]
It's not even about Na'Vi doing anything they can to win even if its completely retarded and turned me off from supporting them, it's the fact that people are celebrating this kind of BS. That "victory" was 100% luck, Na'Vi displayed NO skill in that match. You think Navi cares that you don't support them anymore when they can win 1.4 million? No they don't give a shit, and I don't give a shit about them now. That was complete crap, it's literally the same as people celebrating and cheering for Idra swearing, calling people names and early GGing. People around here are little kids, so easily pleased by shitty behavior. but when [A] picks kotl pl it's all hunky-dory for mr. dedicated [A] fan! double standards 4ever The difference is that you have to outplay your opponents first to get into a position to abuse PL/Kotl. With fountain hooking, you can be losing the game and hit maybe 2-3 key ones and turn the entire game around. Do you even play dota? Fountain hooking is the most impossible thing to ever coordinate and pull off. There's only 2 players in the world that could pull it off in a pro game. If they're that good, hats off to them. Stop crying If this was IXDL I'd call 1v1 for a temp ban. Unfourtanately it's not. From a player's perspective, there's no one here that would argue that they would feel that the fountain hooking isn't bullshit. If you lost to it, you know you'd be bitching about it 100%, especially in a tournament with this much money on the line. It's 'within the rules' but whether or not it's 'fair' is another. IceFrog probably didn't expect anyone to really have the coordination to pull this off, but he'll likely take a look after this. And remember, unless it's 'IceFrog confirmed' it can be changed. A dev confirming an intended change means nothing. All those posts from TankLover are just disgusting, especially comparing this strat to Idra bming, gging out early (ironic)? And speak for yourself. You hated it, myself and lots of other people were insanely entertained by something different, and by a high risk/reward strat. How dare those "idiots" in the audience get excited too right, we should all be allmighty and biased like you. And saying that this takes no skill or teamwork to pull of is just ignorant. It may be cheesy, but you can make this argument for lots of strats. With regards to your post, I'd argue that fountain hooking isn't BS, it's a strat that's rarely seen. It must be either too hard to pull of or too risky, meaning that it can be defeated. If it was a bs easy mode cheese strat it would have been used more often id think. And gogo TL While I don't agree on "high risk" it's definitely high reward, and I don't mind either way, TongFu should've just grown enough cojones to just run them down before XBOCT got too much farm. Na'vi was so far away from Dendi there's no way Tongfu could ever catch them. Please rewatch the game. They were banking on Dendi getting a few hooks to stall for Hvost to get big.
if only there was an item in dota that allows you to blink half a screen away to engage on people
if only
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On August 10 2013 12:03 Korelle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:57 iv~nk~j wrote:On August 10 2013 11:53 big_shark wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 10 2013 11:46 BongChambers wrote:On August 10 2013 11:44 gLhF.Revere wrote:
If it's fountain hooks aren't gimmicky, could someone explain to me what Tongfu could've done to win? To sum it up short, they were scared shit less to do anything to capitalize when Pudge missed his hooks. It was Tungfu's game to win or lose, Na'Vi the experience beasts that they are, were able to play patiently and come out on top in the end due to Tongfu's passive play. Thanks for the non-answer. Pudge misses hook. And Na'Vi is 2 screens away from where Dendi just was sent back from. What can Tongfu do? Ban pudge, ban chen, have one of there supports focused on eating the fountain hook in a team fight, blocking pudge LOS with creeps or gargoyles. NaVi created a tactic and people are butthurt that there isn't some pre-created tactic to counter it. Time will tell if it is truely OP or not. you know you've lost when your argument for how to counter-play the exploit abuse is to ban the heroes that are needed to do it You know you've lost the arguement when you want something that only one team in the world has managed to pull off in one game against a team that threw the game by playing too passively nerfed. Dendi is literally the best Pudge player in the world, playing with a top 3 Chen, and then it was more TongFu's loss than Na'Vi's win. If Fountain Hooking was a problem Pudge/Chen would be instabanned like Wisp is.
navi is the only team i know of that has tried doing it so how do you know other teams wouldn't be able to pull it off if they tried?
maybe other teams don't want to rely on such a cheap and gimmicky strat?
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On August 10 2013 12:04 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:03 iokke wrote:On August 10 2013 11:55 superstartran wrote:On August 10 2013 11:52 Tien wrote:On August 10 2013 11:50 superstartran wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 anonymitylol wrote:On August 10 2013 11:46 TanKLoveR wrote:On August 10 2013 11:43 trinxified wrote:On August 10 2013 11:42 TanKLoveR wrote:On August 10 2013 11:40 Fruscainte wrote:
[quote]
OH NO PEOPLE ARE PLAYING TO WIN IN A 1.4 MILLION DOLLAR FIRST PRIZE TOURNAMENT
A BLOO BLOO BLOO
:| It's not even about Na'Vi doing anything they can to win even if its completely retarded and turned me off from supporting them, it's the fact that people are celebrating this kind of BS. That "victory" was 100% luck, Na'Vi displayed NO skill in that match. You think Navi cares that you don't support them anymore when they can win 1.4 million? No they don't give a shit, and I don't give a shit about them now. That was complete crap, it's literally the same as people celebrating and cheering for Idra swearing, calling people names and early GGing. People around here are little kids, so easily pleased by shitty behavior. but when [A] picks kotl pl it's all hunky-dory for mr. dedicated [A] fan! double standards 4ever The difference is that you have to outplay your opponents first to get into a position to abuse PL/Kotl. With fountain hooking, you can be losing the game and hit maybe 2-3 key ones and turn the entire game around. Do you even play dota? Fountain hooking is the most impossible thing to ever coordinate and pull off. There's only 2 players in the world that could pull it off in a pro game. If they're that good, hats off to them. Stop crying If this was IXDL I'd call 1v1 for a temp ban. Unfourtanately it's not. From a player's perspective, there's no one here that would argue that they would feel that the fountain hooking isn't bullshit. If you lost to it, you know you'd be bitching about it 100%, especially in a tournament with this much money on the line. It's 'within the rules' but whether or not it's 'fair' is another. IceFrog probably didn't expect anyone to really have the coordination to pull this off, but he'll likely take a look after this. And remember, unless it's 'IceFrog confirmed' it can be changed. A dev confirming an intended change means nothing. All those posts from TankLover are just disgusting, especially comparing this strat to Idra bming, gging out early (ironic)? And speak for yourself. You hated it, myself and lots of other people were insanely entertained by something different, and by a high risk/reward strat. How dare those "idiots" in the audience get excited too right, we should all be allmighty and biased like you. And saying that this takes no skill or teamwork to pull of is just ignorant. It may be cheesy, but you can make this argument for lots of strats. With regards to your post, I'd argue that fountain hooking isn't BS, it's a strat that's rarely seen. It must be either too hard to pull of or too risky, meaning that it can be defeated. If it was a bs easy mode cheese strat it would have been used more often id think. And gogo TL In the particular situation they were in, there was 0 risk in doing what Dendi did. His team was not going to take a 5v4 fight. Tongfu were taking towers and winning the game the entire time until the Aegis hook.
keyword: particular situation.
You can nerf stuff that is good in particular situations, or would would ruin everything. The only things that deserve nerfs are unpunishable stuff, that are good now matter what. Something like an hero appearing in 100% competitive drafts.
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On August 10 2013 12:07 Plansix wrote:
The SC2 drama queens have invade. We must stop them.
release the rekrul?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 10 2013 12:07 Shadowpostin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:07 Plansix wrote:
The SC2 drama queens have invade. We must stop them. release the rekrul?
Release the flying monkeys
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On August 10 2013 12:05 Aurra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:03 DDie wrote:On August 10 2013 11:59 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 10 2013 11:56 Gevna wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 JoeSchmoe wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 goody153 wrote:
this is ridiculous i dont really understand why people complain about chen-pudge combo and asking for nerfs ... this is why this game is popular ,.. maybe the one who complained are new to this and expected this game to be something like sc2 or bw "this is why this game is popular". uh no. To me it is, if I wanted a fade game with everything linear, toned down I would play lol. But there are a lot of weird things, OP stuff which makes this game amazing. Anyway I don't even know why everybody is whining about fountain hooks, because it was Tong fu's fault not capitalizing enough when they had their advantage, and letting Hvost farming like mad men. Sure fountain hooks are flashy, but it was just a cleaver strategy to buy time for Hvost, killing one random hero every 5 minutes is not turning a game around. Nobody has answered this question. What could Tongfu have done to win that game? Push down the lane 4v5 when the hook misses, kill everyone? TP scrolls? There were periods where Dendi was back with his team before Hook even came off CD.
So what? Test of faith would still be on CD. rush down the lane, doom chen, win.
Tongfu choked there.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On August 10 2013 12:07 Plansix wrote:
The SC2 drama queens have invade. We must stop them.
speak for yourself
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On August 10 2013 12:05 craz3d wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 11:53 Erasme wrote:On August 10 2013 11:52 Tien wrote:On August 10 2013 11:50 superstartran wrote:On August 10 2013 11:47 anonymitylol wrote:On August 10 2013 11:46 TanKLoveR wrote:On August 10 2013 11:43 trinxified wrote:On August 10 2013 11:42 TanKLoveR wrote:On August 10 2013 11:40 Fruscainte wrote:On August 10 2013 11:38 TanKLoveR wrote:
Ugh you people seriously are ....
You're all about gimicky bs, "OPA DENDI OPA XD!!" like this hook or freaking Ursa and meepo ugh. What a ton of crap, that was a disgusting game and Na'Vi should be ashamed. But nope, everyone stood and screamed and clapped at such a shameful display, there was no skill, no team play just fucking luck. I hope Alliance destroys these people tomorrow, I look forward to it. OH NO PEOPLE ARE PLAYING TO WIN IN A 1.4 MILLION DOLLAR FIRST PRIZE TOURNAMENT A BLOO BLOO BLOO :| It's not even about Na'Vi doing anything they can to win even if its completely retarded and turned me off from supporting them, it's the fact that people are celebrating this kind of BS. That "victory" was 100% luck, Na'Vi displayed NO skill in that match. You think Navi cares that you don't support them anymore when they can win 1.4 million? No they don't give a shit, and I don't give a shit about them now. That was complete crap, it's literally the same as people celebrating and cheering for Idra swearing, calling people names and early GGing. People around here are little kids, so easily pleased by shitty behavior. but when [A] picks kotl pl it's all hunky-dory for mr. dedicated [A] fan! double standards 4ever The difference is that you have to outplay your opponents first to get into a position to abuse PL/Kotl. With fountain hooking, you can be losing the game and hit maybe 2-3 key ones and turn the entire game around. Do you even play dota? Fountain hooking is the most impossible thing to ever coordinate and pull off. There's only 2 players in the world that could pull it off in a pro game. If they're that good, hats off to them. Stop crying Just stop with that opinion, it's wrong. 1% of the player base can do it easily. They can do it, but with the efficiency of Navi? How many fountain hooks did they land last game? I lost count. I've seen this done by ROOT in a couple of their scrims months ago and they only managed to get 2-3 the whole game and got stomped in at least 75% of the games (the other 25% the Pudge had a gg and they trolled their opponents).
that has to do with root being in the top 5% of the playerbase ;p
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On August 10 2013 12:03 Itsmedudeman wrote:
1. dodge hooks
2. push with creeps
3. team fight better
If you're expecting some answer like "build xxx item" so you have a 100% counter I'm sorry that this game takes execution, but all you have to do is play better. Picking pudge in itself is a huge risk and lead to Na`vi falling behind by that deficit in the first place. You also saw how underfarmed dendi was 35 minutes into the game. That's the nature of fountain hooking and pudge. Your 2 position solo mid will have virtually no farm in comparison to the other team's solo.
Don't be simplistic. If Na'Vi misses a hook, the team just backs. How do you kill Na'Vi's team when everybody is standing two screens away from Pudge? You expect Tongfu to dive two screens length to fight Na'Vi?
How can Tongfu push when that makes them most susceptible to Pudge hook. If Pudge lands a hook, Tongfu's push is stopped. If Pudge misses, then Pudge walks/tp's back since Tongfu is at Na'Vi's base. Low risk, high reward.
The only way I could've seen Tongfu win that was to smoke gank Na'Vi's team from behind and pray for a pickoff on either Pudge or Chen.
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Fnatic is turning their jungle into a gold mine. Doesn't look good for Orange especially since their supports aren't getting that much.
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On August 10 2013 12:07 Shadowpostin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:07 Plansix wrote:
The SC2 drama queens have invade. We must stop them. release the rekrul?
Yes, get them out with their lack of understanding and whining
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Tongfu's draft just had no way to start fights
which led to them losing.
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All the people who are hating the last game, I respect your opinions but you are in the minority.
Also with the Pudge is such a rare selection and he is one of the most exciting heroes in the game. Why do you think that when he is selected crowds go crazy?
Why is it with PL and KotL get selected people boo?
Just think about it
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On August 10 2013 12:07 iv~nk~j wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:03 Korelle wrote:On August 10 2013 11:57 iv~nk~j wrote:On August 10 2013 11:53 big_shark wrote:On August 10 2013 11:49 gLhF.Revere wrote:On August 10 2013 11:46 BongChambers wrote:On August 10 2013 11:44 gLhF.Revere wrote:
If it's fountain hooks aren't gimmicky, could someone explain to me what Tongfu could've done to win? To sum it up short, they were scared shit less to do anything to capitalize when Pudge missed his hooks. It was Tungfu's game to win or lose, Na'Vi the experience beasts that they are, were able to play patiently and come out on top in the end due to Tongfu's passive play. Thanks for the non-answer. Pudge misses hook. And Na'Vi is 2 screens away from where Dendi just was sent back from. What can Tongfu do? Ban pudge, ban chen, have one of there supports focused on eating the fountain hook in a team fight, blocking pudge LOS with creeps or gargoyles. NaVi created a tactic and people are butthurt that there isn't some pre-created tactic to counter it. Time will tell if it is truely OP or not. you know you've lost when your argument for how to counter-play the exploit abuse is to ban the heroes that are needed to do it You know you've lost the arguement when you want something that only one team in the world has managed to pull off in one game against a team that threw the game by playing too passively nerfed. Dendi is literally the best Pudge player in the world, playing with a top 3 Chen, and then it was more TongFu's loss than Na'Vi's win. If Fountain Hooking was a problem Pudge/Chen would be instabanned like Wisp is. navi is the only team i know of that has tried doing it so how do you know other teams wouldn't be able to pull it off if they tried? maybe other teams don't want to rely on such a cheap and gimmicky strat?
I've seen others try..
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That reminds me, haven't seen Azarkon in awhile. 
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17:07 Emnjay808 yesss
17:07 Emnjay808 yessssss
17:07 Emnjay808 fuck yo rotation
17:07 Emnjay808 era sama get your aquila
17:07 Emnjay808 and split push these scum
17:08 Emnjay808 500 from mek
17:08 Emnjay808 oh yes
17:08 Emnjay808 they can take t1 really quick
17:08 Emnjay808 CHOKE MUSHI AM
17:08 Emnjay808 MAKE HIM PAY
17:08 Emnjay808 is this how you punish second pick am
17:08 Emnjay808 i love u fnatic
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EPT
