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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On August 14 2013 19:12 maru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:00 cecek wrote:On August 13 2013 20:36 renfree wrote:
Post-TI3 reshuffle:
Na`Vi - Kky+Ppy out;
iG - Zhou, 430, YYF out;
LGD.int - full disband;
Liquid - Korok out;
Dignitas - Universe out;
Zenith - xy- out;
VP - Crazy, Illidan out;
MUFC - fzfz out;
Mouz - Synderen out;
RS - full disband;
Quantic - full disband;
EG - full disband except Fear.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? Pajkatt, Misery and God join Puppey + Kuro to form New World Order 2.0 and they dominate the world of Dota once again! I have no idea what I'm talking about. Once again?
NWO with Kuro, Puppey and Pajkatt was vey strong at one point.
Or is that a Chinese supremacy complex talking?
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On August 14 2013 19:08 figq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 11:01 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 10:56 zgl wrote:
Can someone provide a link to Chinese vods for the grand finals? You can go to youtube.com/user/dota2/videos , there are vods with chinese commentary Alternatively: http://www.dota2.com/international/mainevent/schedule/sunday/Choose a game, click "View", below the embedded youtube choose "Chinese". You can also watch all replays in the client and choose the Chinese commentary. By the way, Burning himself is commentating. Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 09:53 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 08:44 The_Red_Viper wrote:I watched the first time Dota at TI3 and have to say that i really like it. I never would have thought that a dotatype game ("moba" is hated right  ) could be fun to watch, but dota feels pretty exciting. But i have one question, is there any infotable about the champs being picked/banned at the event? i really would like to see that and liquipedia doesnt have it if i am not mistaken. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/3406-heroes-of-the-international-3 This may be useful too: http://dotaflame.com/tournament/heroes/-3
wait a second, does this mean its pretty common to pick the same heroes over and over again?
I didnt notice this in the actual tournament (well first time watcher^^), but this doesnt sound all that good for me.
Only 53 heroes are picked/banned more than 10 times in 163 games.
14 heroes of those are picked/banned in over 50% of the games, thats kinda dull Oo
Could anyone try to explain that?
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On August 14 2013 21:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:08 figq wrote:On August 14 2013 11:01 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 10:56 zgl wrote:
Can someone provide a link to Chinese vods for the grand finals? You can go to youtube.com/user/dota2/videos , there are vods with chinese commentary Alternatively: http://www.dota2.com/international/mainevent/schedule/sunday/Choose a game, click "View", below the embedded youtube choose "Chinese". You can also watch all replays in the client and choose the Chinese commentary. By the way, Burning himself is commentating. On August 14 2013 09:53 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 08:44 The_Red_Viper wrote:I watched the first time Dota at TI3 and have to say that i really like it. I never would have thought that a dotatype game ("moba" is hated right ) could be fun to watch, but dota feels pretty exciting. But i have one question, is there any infotable about the champs being picked/banned at the event? i really would like to see that and liquipedia doesnt have it if i am not mistaken. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/3406-heroes-of-the-international-3 This may be useful too: http://dotaflame.com/tournament/heroes/-3 wait a second, does this mean its pretty common to pick the same heroes over and over again? I didnt notice this in the actual tournament (well first time watcher^^), but this doesnt sound all that good for me. Only 53 heroes are picked/banned more than 10 times in 163 games. 14 heroes of those are picked/banned in over 50% of the games, thats kinda dull Oo Could anyone try to explain that?
From what I recall, this has always kinda been the case. It isn't necessarily bad, it just means certain heroes fit the competitive "metagame" or "trends" or whatever you want to call it more-so than other heroes. There's always potential for someone to figure out a new use for a hero and their popularity to spike; dota champs go in and out of style all the time sometimes just from nerfs/buffs due to a patch. There's even websites that list the tiers of heroes based on how much they get picked in tournament games. Still, like you said, it does make it a little dull to see the same pool of heroes picked over and over. TIL was absolutely awesome though, I haven't played dota in yeaaaaars and it made me dl and start playing dota2, so it can't be that dull haha
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On August 14 2013 21:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:08 figq wrote:On August 14 2013 11:01 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 10:56 zgl wrote:
Can someone provide a link to Chinese vods for the grand finals? You can go to youtube.com/user/dota2/videos , there are vods with chinese commentary Alternatively: http://www.dota2.com/international/mainevent/schedule/sunday/Choose a game, click "View", below the embedded youtube choose "Chinese". You can also watch all replays in the client and choose the Chinese commentary. By the way, Burning himself is commentating. On August 14 2013 09:53 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 08:44 The_Red_Viper wrote:I watched the first time Dota at TI3 and have to say that i really like it. I never would have thought that a dotatype game ("moba" is hated right ) could be fun to watch, but dota feels pretty exciting. But i have one question, is there any infotable about the champs being picked/banned at the event? i really would like to see that and liquipedia doesnt have it if i am not mistaken. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/3406-heroes-of-the-international-3 This may be useful too: http://dotaflame.com/tournament/heroes/-3 wait a second, does this mean its pretty common to pick the same heroes over and over again? I didnt notice this in the actual tournament (well first time watcher^^), but this doesnt sound all that good for me. Only 53 heroes are picked/banned more than 10 times in 163 games. 14 heroes of those are picked/banned in over 50% of the games, thats kinda dull Oo Could anyone try to explain that?
In any game, certain characters are going to be favored over others. 53 heroes is a huge variety already, but the fringe picks are really interesting too, especially since fringe picks tend to have a very good winrate due to being situationally strong or unexpected.
The DotA metagame changes frequently and drastically, in spite of very few major changes to the game over the course of many years. Players start to adopt new strategies, and then those strategies get countered, and this cycle is neverending. I think almost every hero in DotA has been competitively high tier at some point.
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On August 14 2013 21:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:08 figq wrote:On August 14 2013 11:01 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 10:56 zgl wrote:
Can someone provide a link to Chinese vods for the grand finals? You can go to youtube.com/user/dota2/videos , there are vods with chinese commentary Alternatively: http://www.dota2.com/international/mainevent/schedule/sunday/Choose a game, click "View", below the embedded youtube choose "Chinese". You can also watch all replays in the client and choose the Chinese commentary. By the way, Burning himself is commentating. On August 14 2013 09:53 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 08:44 The_Red_Viper wrote:I watched the first time Dota at TI3 and have to say that i really like it. I never would have thought that a dotatype game ("moba" is hated right ) could be fun to watch, but dota feels pretty exciting. But i have one question, is there any infotable about the champs being picked/banned at the event? i really would like to see that and liquipedia doesnt have it if i am not mistaken. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/3406-heroes-of-the-international-3 This may be useful too: http://dotaflame.com/tournament/heroes/-3 wait a second, does this mean its pretty common to pick the same heroes over and over again? I didnt notice this in the actual tournament (well first time watcher^^), but this doesnt sound all that good for me. Only 53 heroes are picked/banned more than 10 times in 163 games. 14 heroes of those are picked/banned in over 50% of the games, thats kinda dull Oo Could anyone try to explain that?
its the way these tournaments work. some heroes appear to be very good in certain strategies and before you try to come up with a plan to counter them on the fly you will just pick them yourself. plus why change something that does work?
in a longer lasting tournament you will probably see more different picks, but when its just a few days straight teams will stick to what they know. no need to experiment in a almost 3 million dollar tournament.
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Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too .
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On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too .
"Even more variety." Huh.
You have to keep in mind that in every game there are not only 10 heroes picked, but also 10 heroes banned.
Unless all heroes are equally viable in any circumstance(which would mean they are kind of all the same), there will be some heroes being picked more than others.
The thing is that you can't just pick any 5 heroes in a lineup, because the heroes have to function together. And a few heroes are so different from the rest that people don't yet know how to make them work in competitive games.
2 heroes, pudge and meepo, can to my knowledge only be successfully played by dendi and n0tail, respectively. No one else is good enough to make them work.
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On August 14 2013 20:46 cecek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:12 maru~ wrote:On August 14 2013 19:00 cecek wrote:On August 13 2013 20:36 renfree wrote:
Post-TI3 reshuffle:
Na`Vi - Kky+Ppy out;
iG - Zhou, 430, YYF out;
LGD.int - full disband;
Liquid - Korok out;
Dignitas - Universe out;
Zenith - xy- out;
VP - Crazy, Illidan out;
MUFC - fzfz out;
Mouz - Synderen out;
RS - full disband;
Quantic - full disband;
EG - full disband except Fear.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? Pajkatt, Misery and God join Puppey + Kuro to form New World Order 2.0 and they dominate the world of Dota once again! I have no idea what I'm talking about. Once again? NWO with Kuro, Puppey and Pajkatt was vey strong at one point. Or is that a Chinese supremacy complex talking?
Indeed 
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On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too .
Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility.
Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol.
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On August 14 2013 21:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 19:08 figq wrote:On August 14 2013 11:01 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 10:56 zgl wrote:
Can someone provide a link to Chinese vods for the grand finals? You can go to youtube.com/user/dota2/videos , there are vods with chinese commentary Alternatively: http://www.dota2.com/international/mainevent/schedule/sunday/Choose a game, click "View", below the embedded youtube choose "Chinese". You can also watch all replays in the client and choose the Chinese commentary. By the way, Burning himself is commentating. On August 14 2013 09:53 mnesthes wrote:On August 14 2013 08:44 The_Red_Viper wrote:I watched the first time Dota at TI3 and have to say that i really like it. I never would have thought that a dotatype game ("moba" is hated right ) could be fun to watch, but dota feels pretty exciting. But i have one question, is there any infotable about the champs being picked/banned at the event? i really would like to see that and liquipedia doesnt have it if i am not mistaken. http://www.gosugamers.net/dota2/features/3406-heroes-of-the-international-3 This may be useful too: http://dotaflame.com/tournament/heroes/-3 wait a second, does this mean its pretty common to pick the same heroes over and over again? I didnt notice this in the actual tournament (well first time watcher^^), but this doesnt sound all that good for me. Only 53 heroes are picked/banned more than 10 times in 163 games. 14 heroes of those are picked/banned in over 50% of the games, thats kinda dull Oo Could anyone try to explain that?
You do realize that the metagame in Dota is changing, MUCH much faster than in SC2, right? Two weeks in Dota can mean already big changes in these stats. Some of the heroes that you now see at the bottom used to be at the top etc. So, yes at any given moment the viable pool is not too wide - but that reflects how optimized the metagame always is.
Actually, the pool is pretty wide if you consider all this. Other similar games and genres have worse problems with competitive variety - for example, in fighting games often there's a character that's just dominant in this game, and in tournaments you only see a few other characters.
Bottom line is: if you like a hero, but it seems weak right now and that frustrates you, remember:
1. The metagame changes so fast and so much, that before long you'll get to see your favorite hero become viable in competitve play.
2. At a non-professional level any hero is viable at any moment. You can certainly make it work, even if the best teams in the world aren't using it right now. Unless you are a pro, you can play whatever you want, really.
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On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol.
You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all.
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On August 15 2013 07:05 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol. You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all.
I assume he means SSBB, but yes, not every fighting game has S-tier characters.
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On August 15 2013 07:05 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol. You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all.
He probably means Brawl. In Melee Fox has advantage against practically most of the characters, but it isn't as crazy as Meta Knight vs the world.
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On August 15 2013 07:05 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol. You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all.
To pick on another section of his post:
"WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE."
Wat.
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On August 15 2013 08:28 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 07:05 Count9 wrote:On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol. You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all. To pick on another section of his post: "WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE." Wat.
This is only true if we're talking about past a certain time period. Human for a very long time were extremely dominant, especially after people started figuring out the Masonry Tower metagame where you'd just spam like 800 towers and Steam Ganks galore.
It is true though that Orc/NE in the last stages of WC3 was pretty much the two most dominant races (with way more Orcs than NE players), with Human kinda lagging behind, and UD being very weak. This is due to a multitude of reasons, but the main reason was because of the rise of the Blademaster with 500 crits due to Claw Stacking.
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On August 15 2013 21:17 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 08:28 babylon wrote:On August 15 2013 07:05 Count9 wrote:On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol. You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all. To pick on another section of his post: "WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE." Wat. This is only true if we're talking about past a certain time period. Human for a very long time were extremely dominant, especially after people started figuring out the Masonry Tower metagame where you'd just spam like 800 towers and Steam Ganks galore. It is true though that Orc/NE in the last stages of WC3 was pretty much the two most dominant races (with way more Orcs than NE players), with Human kinda lagging behind, and UD being very weak. This is due to a multitude of reasons, but the main reason was because of the rise of the Blademaster with 500 crits due to Claw Stacking.
that's not true at all.
there was a period in vanilla WC3 with Heman and FatC that ended pretty quickly.
in frozen throne there where Sky and Infi, later TH000 and in between sometimes ToD that shined. but there was never a long period of human domination. even in the tower era good UDs dominated humans and then lost to some random Orc
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I'm somewhat disappointed by the tournament now as after an intense week. No official coverage of the preliminaries was a big miss, lackluster camera production was another miss as instant player/fan reaction was nowhere to be seen. I also disliked that there was man on the ground covering the stories from the venue.
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On August 15 2013 21:17 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 08:28 babylon wrote:On August 15 2013 07:05 Count9 wrote:On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol. You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all. To pick on another section of his post: "WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE." Wat. This is only true if we're talking about past a certain time period. Human for a very long time were extremely dominant, especially after people started figuring out the Masonry Tower metagame where you'd just spam like 800 towers and Steam Ganks galore. It is true though that Orc/NE in the last stages of WC3 was pretty much the two most dominant races (with way more Orcs than NE players), with Human kinda lagging behind, and UD being very weak. This is due to a multitude of reasons, but the main reason was because of the rise of the Blademaster with 500 crits due to Claw Stacking.
You're right that at different periods of time, different races were dominant. But when you're strictly talking about top players, it's extremely balanced (minus UD). Not even thinking about where to rank players, you'll inevitably see people like Moon (NE), Sky (HU), Grubby (OC), Lyn (OC), ReMinD (NE), TH000 (HU), Infi (HU), ToD (HU), and possibly TeD and Happy (both UD) mentioned amongst others. The distribution is relatively even (possibly skewed towards HU depending on how you rank the players, there are people like Soccer, Insomnia, Lucifer, etc.). Also, Human play only really took off after Sky showed the world how to play proper aggressive human ~2005-2006.
In the late period of War3 (still trucking on, just fyi), the top players are pretty much HU, minus Lyn. Finals are almost always Lyn vs. TH000 these days (and Yumiko is not doing badly either, and even UD made a push-back for a while with players like TeD and Believe on the ground).
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On August 16 2013 02:50 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 21:17 superstartran wrote:On August 15 2013 08:28 babylon wrote:On August 15 2013 07:05 Count9 wrote:On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar), WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE. Strategic games like the AW series have usually 1-2 broken tier character, then 4-5 playable and the rest is unplayable generals (AW:DS however was a lot better, only 2 broken tier, 4-5 fair tier and only 3-4 unplayable). I don't play LoL but i'm pretty sure it's worse than in Dota in terms of how many heroes out of the rosters are regularly picked, not to talk about the fact that you don' have as much lane flexibility. Dota has never been so varied in term of picks either. TI2 was pretty bad already (Morph/Naga/DS/Lycan/Rubick/Lesh gege), but there have been far worse eras. Like Mirana/ES/Lina/Sand King/Lion/SF and little else (6.59 Ks.Int period). SF and Mirana in particular weren't broken but people whined FOR YEARS about them because every single game had them in it. Those heroes never saw particular nerfs and have seen mostly buffs from then on. I'd like to go and watch the old GG archives now lol. You literally have no idea what you're talking about at all. To pick on another section of his post: "WC3 had only 4 races and 1 was considered worse than the others (UD) and most top players were Orc or NE." Wat. This is only true if we're talking about past a certain time period. Human for a very long time were extremely dominant, especially after people started figuring out the Masonry Tower metagame where you'd just spam like 800 towers and Steam Ganks galore. It is true though that Orc/NE in the last stages of WC3 was pretty much the two most dominant races (with way more Orcs than NE players), with Human kinda lagging behind, and UD being very weak. This is due to a multitude of reasons, but the main reason was because of the rise of the Blademaster with 500 crits due to Claw Stacking. You're right that at different periods of time, different races were dominant. But when you're strictly talking about top players, it's extremely balanced (minus UD). Not even thinking about where to rank players, you'll inevitably see people like Moon (NE), Sky (HU), Grubby (OC), Lyn (OC), ReMinD (NE), TH000 (HU), Infi (HU), ToD (HU), and possibly TeD and Happy (both UD) mentioned amongst others. The distribution is relatively even (possibly skewed towards HU depending on how you rank the players, there are people like Soccer, Insomnia, Lucifer, etc.). Also, Human play only really took off after Sky showed the world how to play proper aggressive human ~2005-2006. In the late period of War3 (still trucking on, just fyi), the top players are pretty much HU, minus Lyn. Finals are almost always Lyn vs. TH000 these days (and Yumiko is not doing badly either, and even UD made a push-back for a while with players like TeD and Believe on the ground).
or you could attribute that to China being the only place still playing wc3 and their scene has always been dominated by human.
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On August 15 2013 02:29 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 21:43 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yeah dont get me wrong, i thought TI3 was awesome and there were a lot of exciting games. I just found it interesting that it would be like that after hearing "every hero in dota is so unique". Thought that would lead to even more variety.
Well thank u for the answers, maybe i start playing dota2 now too . Dude have u actually played a multi-rostered game? In every fighter there are always S-tier character and then the rest (SSBM had literally only 1 playable character and everyone else was underpar) [ ... ]
Actually SSBM has 8 characters considered S-Tier (source). It's worse for SSB and SSBB though.
Anyway don't mind me nitpicking, I agree with the overall point of your post
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EPT
