On December 25 2016 10:07 aeroblaster wrote: So the build now is max Jingu and Boundless with 1 in Tree Dance right? Stronger crit and longer stun is better than the slow and magic damage from Tree Dance so it's just a 1 point wonder in mobility by comparison.
I monkey king is like really really bad, if you dont feed this retard in lane if hes core, then u are going be good going into team fights late because hero is fucking shit in big 5v5 team fights.
The key to fighting Monkey King is that if you see him in a lane, or setting up in trees, just dont waste your time to find him and just go to where your friends are or other shit and ball or farm in proximity to each other. Then go gank him when hes farming lanes because its the easiest hero to gank in the world as long as hes not setting up in trees.
Atm I've begun maxing Jingu Mastery first by default, and then going for Boundless Strike if it's allowing you to burst heroes down or you need the stun, or for Tree Dance if you're just farming.
Treads should be the preferred boots over phase with how Jingu mastery works. There's no real need for movespeed when you have a skill to close gaps easily together with a 300 range melee oov slow. Treads attack speed = much higher dps, and faster charge up to lifesteal when manfighting.
I haven't lost a single game of ursa vs MK yet. Bears > monkeys on the food chain.
On December 25 2016 21:14 Kaj wrote: I monkey king is like really really bad, if you dont feed this retard in lane if hes core, then u are going be good going into team fights late because hero is fucking shit in big 5v5 team fights.
The key to fighting Monkey King is that if you see him in a lane, or setting up in trees, just dont waste your time to find him and just go to where your friends are or other shit and ball or farm in proximity to each other. Then go gank him when hes farming lanes because its the easiest hero to gank in the world as long as hes not setting up in trees.
He's only shit because people don't bother to get bkb. His ult is also the most broken shit ever if you have setup for it. His strong laning presence allows for some crazy teamfighting supports that are shit in babysiting lanes, like treant, enigma, ES.
I can understand wanting PT over phase but I still prefer the bonus movespeed, while Echo Sabre and the lvl 10 talent provide the attack speed. I find I don't really have the slots to carry OoV too long, especially if I go desolator.
I dont think the slight increase in attack speed from treads is enough within the 3-4 hits that you need to apply jingu, most the time you can settle for 3 hits use boundless strike to get the 4th and then your pretty much unstoppable with phase to finish them out. You get 2 straight out of echo and pretty much need 1 hit which the treads dont help with, also his ulti doesnt benefit from as only damage. Bkb is definitely core, i feel right after echo saber your pretty much a initiating/teamfight god
On December 26 2016 15:08 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: if you can get away with deso before bkb it increases your ult effectiveness massively
but of course if you die during ult its bad so you need bkb a lot of the time
the fact that your ult can bash can make basher extremely valuable too
Now tell me why on earth would u want deso over maelstrom there is absolute 0 reason to get it over maelstrom.
Increases his farmrate, buffs his ult into oblivion.
deso in all regards sure its good to apply that -armor but you do realise every illusion can procc the maelstrom at once right?.
and its not unlikley you se that happen, if you sit in trees and drop ult on center of 2 heroes.
then other 3 comes in to help boom chainreaction and you have a laguna on all 5 heroes.
Just no, there is NO reason to get deso its horrible on him compared to maelstrom and also you want to be tanky, to be able to take some sort of hits if i ever would concider any item instead of going maelstrom it would be vanguard.
Also the ulti monkeys only hit once every 2 seconds without a guarantee that it will proc mael, while deso will always apply it and if they dont hit often (like a huge aoe stun/disable) its the inital attack that you want to be impactful. People rarely stay in the ulti or allow the ulti to last enough for every monkey to proc a chain lighting. (The exception being disables which if u have 5 heros in that ulti for the duration theyre fucked regardless of orb) Not to mention that negative armor benefits your physical damaging allies. Maelstorm isnt bad, thats not what im saying im saying you underestimate deso and overestimate Maelstorm.
On December 27 2016 12:29 Shock710 wrote: Also the ulti monkeys only hit once every 2 seconds without a guarantee that it will proc mael, while deso will always apply it and if they dont hit often (like a huge aoe stun/disable) its the inital attack that you want to be impactful. People rarely stay in the ulti or allow the ulti to last enough for every monkey to proc a chain lighting. (The exception being disables which if u have 5 heros in that ulti for the duration theyre fucked regardless of orb) Not to mention that negative armor benefits your physical damaging allies. Maelstorm isnt bad, thats not what im saying im saying you underestimate deso and overestimate Maelstorm.
Are you telling me 8 illusions wont procc it? or yourself? i dont know what world you are living in :D, fact is maelstrom IS better on him there is no reason to argue it will provide more dmg becuse they CANNOT enter that zone if you have used it on him you know how much dmg it does its insane they either have to pop you directly or they die. while deso sure it provides dmg its good but its nowhere close to the aoe dmg maelstrom provides just two proccs is enuff to overwelm deso in damage, and the longer they are in the ult the more damage it provides, and most games at this point have 0 bkb:s also.
and deso dont increase your farmrate either plus your q acts as an auto attack that have individual proccs that means over multiple target it maths it out and in a teamfight your Q is more or less 100% procc on maelstrom.
"they either have to pop you directly or they die" ... or they run out seems like what MK ult always does tbh. I've yet to see someone surviving in that zone for more than 5 seconds and most of the time it's like 2 near the center.
On average his ult gets ~4-5 autos off. The ppl you didn't go on likely will get hit 0-1 times and the target in the center will get ~3 hits, sometimes more. So that's 1 additional maelstrom proc. 125 magic aoe damage if they are close enough to get hit. Compared to 20 (60 on the close target) damage and -7 armor there is zero doubt in my mind that Deso deals more damage.
Arguing that q has aoe and proccs Mael to deal more damage than Deso is so ridiculous I'm asking myself if you are trolling. Boundless's aoe is very thin and often you use it with gingu, which gets amplified by the -7 armor from desolate. It's a single hit, so the bonus AS does nothing and the bonus damage works, so Deso's stats are better as well.
There are reasons to consider Mael over Deso, mainly bonus AS synergizing with Gingu, Mjolnir being a decent upgrade while Deso is dead end and Mael increasing his farm speed more. I could imagine something like Vanguard Maelstrom becoming standard. But if we compare pure damage output in skirmishes and teamfights and ignore his autoattacks, it's not even close.
Looking at Dotabuff it doesn't seem to be built very often; I have played very little of this hero, but I'd be guessing some combination of "splitpush", "dispel silence without having to commit BKB", "movespeed to build up Jingu Mastery charges more easily", and "not an absolutely rubbish damage item, though probably worse than alternatives".
It does not seem better than the alternatives to me in most cases; I think you would have to really badly want the safer splitpush and dispel. Possibly I'm missing something.
EPT
