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On December 30 2016 08:11 Belisarius wrote:
I would love to love this hero, but his invis is just so annoying to use. I feel like they've done something to the way it checks.
It decloaks randomly so often in the new jungle, and I swear there are gaps that sometimes you can cross and sometimes you can't. I have no confidence sneaking around enemy heroes anymore.
The radius is REALLY small. Test it in demo mode, it's like... you can make 1,5 step from a tree, but not more.
On the gaps, I want to agree with you, I sort of had the same experience, or feeling anyway. Would need to test further.
I feel dagger is that much important now, for those reasons (need to hug trees so hard + crossing gaps feels unreliable), and also to get the free bash initiation. And ult.
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TREE ANT not TRENT
TREE ANT
Alrighty so treant is one of the strongest supports in 719, so I thought I’d post a mini guide to anyone who is looking for a support to climb with. I’ve played around 60 treant games in the last two months of solo queue, gained around 500 mmr to reach just about divine 2 again after losing a bunch during recalibration. My win rate with Dota buff is 70%, which as a first pick hero is pretty absurd.
I’m going to base this post around playing him as a pos 5. I know he is most commonly run as a 4, but I am a pretty old and slow player, so I find freeing up farm for my 4 is better, and tree doesn’t need items to have a crazy impact.
game plan and mindset
All right so treant does a few things really well, and there’s a lot of misconceptions about him too.
His biggest strength (and you should always be thinking about this) is mid game, when you are a map control monster. You have a perma invis and max movespeed. He can easily plant very deep wards and set up insane vision. When the game slows down, he sets up key kills on split pushing heroes easily. His Q when maxed is one of the most obnoxiously abilities in the game at 10-20 mins. Absolutely you should be building treant to take advantage of this.
His secondary strength is his laning. He more or less guarantees a won lane if you itemize correctly. 100 base dmg and a root, with tons of hp.
His third strength which is overrated by pretty much everyone is his healing and sustain. You can keep objectives alive for a while, and save heroes who shouldn’t be saved. That said, I’m gunna be frank about this, if you play treant defensively and passively, you are going to lose more than you should. Watching friends play, it’s almost always the problem. There are better heroes for healing than tree.
Lastly, agha is very overrated, but still very good. I’ll explain in a bit.
starting items and laning
Where to lane? Wherever you will be more effective. Doesn’t matter this patch. Figure it out with your cores.
Start 2 obs, shield, 2 tangos, (sentry if the other support gets something). You should do this in 90% of your games. Why not oov? OOV is good if you have a very strong lane partner and the enemy core or sup can’t get away. But nowadays, you usually have slippery heroes like weaver or grim or something, and OOV does nothing for you. Stout helps you trade and tank hits, which is crazy good when you are trading 100 dmg autos. If you really want you can get an oov later.
Laning strategy is simple. You skill q, you hide in trees, you bop people, you hide again, you bop again, you hide again. That’s it. You are there to eat through regen and force them to waste gold of sentries. You can pull if your lane gets pushed out.
itemization
So after your starting items, you want to follow this game plan. I’ve broken it in to steps. You always want to keep obs out of stock and courier them to your other lanes if you are sitting and bopping heroes.
Early game: brown boots - tranqs - wind lace - wand. You need movespeed more than anything. You come online with lv 4 q, tranqs, and lace.
Mana sustain — just eat clarities. I buy 10-15 per game I think
Mid game: urn-vessel, or meteor hammer. Sometimes force. Up to you and how your team is itemizing, but urn-vessel is going to be the best in 90% of games. Vessel is actually broken and for some reason people don’t like building it. Just tell your team you are building it, or make sure your 4 pos rushes it instead of getting some useless shit like blademail.
Most games end or are decided around this point.
Llxury stuff late game: Blink is very good almost always. Force same. Euls sometimes. Some games you’ll want to go aghs for map control, but I find it’s veyr rarely worth the long build up. Treant doesn’t get gold easily although it’s doable with meteor. You have to consider if aghs will be better than blink-force, and usually it won’t be for a pos 5.
Common traps: starting OOV with no kill potential. Rushing arcanes. Rushing Midas. Rushing blink. Not buying wards. Small incremental items like tranqs and wind lace are where it’s at.
skill build
Ok so you know how to lane and itemize, here’s how to use ur points.
Generally, you want to skill as aggressively as possible. Think of it as playing greedy, I guess. You want lv 4 Q at 7 unless something goes horribly wrong. Sometimes a few value points in leech is the way to go. I find 4-2-0-1 to be ideal most games. You REALLY want to be able to run around as an invisible monster causing problems at lv 7, it’s where you are strongest. 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-4-x come midgame
Avoid maxing E when possible. A single point in E is pretty bad. Sometimes it will turn a dive or whatever, and your team will ping you, but it’s really not great. E is only good with multiple points, so a lot of people max it first, but you really don’t want to play defensive tree.
The only times I’d say max e is if you are doing a 1-1-4-1 build to salvage a terrible terrible lane. Like spec treant or slark treant vs grim tiny or something. But honestly even if you help that lane, your ability to do things mid game is diminished, and it’s often not worthwhile.
I’ll explain why in this next section in more detail.
post laning play style
All right so the laning phase is starting to end, or you decide to move for a kill, or whatever. You are in charge of the mid game. The power of your Q is insane. You have a 3 second fade time with a 2.2s root. And your ult is bonkers. Run around, bop people from invis, set up kills for your cores.
It’s VERY strong vs mobile heroes like ember or weaver or am or whatever. You tp to a lane, run down it and plant a deep ward, and wait for your core to show up. It’s almost always a kill if you play it right.
This is where your team should start to pull ahead in farm and xp, their cores should be afraid of showing on the map, and you should have very deep vision so you can safely play dotes.
mid/late team fights
All right so late game you want to keep a similar style with a few differences. You become more of a counter initiator in team fights. Your priority is to play around your Q cool down and try to root important cores.
Biggest difference here is watching for spirit vessel targets, and waiting for bkbs before you overgrowth. Tree has 2 bkb piercing stuns. One on a 3s CD.
If you have a meteor, it has obvious synergy with your q and ult.
talents
10% CD-R is usually better, if you are doing the panic max E then yeah take that other talent
90 dmg is a lot and it’s what you usually want, but tree respawn is very useful in games vs tree clear because you depend on your q
Guise root is insanely good. You can perma root people.
Both 25s are good, you can go either way. Aoe sustain is underrated.
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Thanks for sharing, was looking for a decent 5 sup atm, so that definitely helps a lot.
I assume that if you go two in leech seed early you go 1:2:0 if your lane partner can add some damage?
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I actually play completely sacrificial treant max armor always with 67% Winrate at ancient 3 bracket 
Global armor's just OP and people don't know how to play vs it
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On October 21 2018 02:29 Archeon wrote:
Thanks for sharing, was looking for a decent 5 sup atm, so that definitely helps a lot.
I assume that if you go two in leech seed early you go 1:2:0 if your lane partner can add some damage?
yea 1-2-0 is ideal
i think 1-2-0 in to 4-2-0-1 and then 4-2-4-1 is usually the best
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On October 21 2018 06:26 LemOn wrote:I actually play completely sacrificial treant max armor always with 67% Winrate at ancient 3 bracket Global armor's just OP and people don't know how to play vs it
def good i just hate the playstyle. I like the setting up plays/mobility aspect of treant
to be a bit more specific i find to win dota games you have to be the one making the plays, if you play reactively you generally are going to lose
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Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed.
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On October 24 2018 11:40 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed.
Well yeah obviously that sounds terrible. But it’s on you spec picker if you first picked so w/e
The only times I’d say max e is if you are doing a 1-1-4-1 build to salvage a terrible terrible lane. Like spec treant or slark treant vs grim tiny or something
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Another thing — you should get every ranged creep and deny in lane with your stout and 100 base dmg. Even if you take the CS from your carry, XPM is too important now to give up ranged creeps. If your lane is contested, always always take the ranged creep unless your carry is 99% gunna get it.
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On October 23 2018 03:42 ahw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2018 06:26 LemOn wrote:I actually play completely sacrificial treant max armor always with 67% Winrate at ancient 3 bracket Global armor's just OP and people don't know how to play vs it def good i just hate the playstyle. I like the setting up plays/mobility aspect of treant to be a bit more specific i find to win dota games you have to be the one making the plays, if you play reactively you generally are going to lose
Not really
I do play Ancient 3 range though, role matchmaking the carries tend to be somewhat competent
But global armor + salves for carry + deny almost every creep in lane = that 67% winrate in solo Q 
Max Leech seed+armor is just a huge boost for push/depush, why you see most pros maxing them first and max 1 level in invis
And midgame all you get is medallion/solar + wand tranquil and you're set/ready to push
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On October 24 2018 11:40 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed.
That lane's no question
Max leech seed+armor+carry spare salve(s)
and get a value invis point if there's a ranged harasser like WR
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On October 31 2018 01:47 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2018 11:40 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed. That lane's no question Max leech seed+armor+carry spare salve(s) and get a value invis point if there's a ranged harasser like WR
idk i would disagree, there's no support that would salvage an underlord +1 aggro lane when you have a spec. maybe a really aggressive magic support like skywrath or grim, but even then ur almost certainly gunna lose the lane if they buy regen. Def can't win it with a melee support.
playing with spec is more about getting out of the laning phase and playing recovery through kills and ganks, which tree offers if you skill him aggressively.
just keep in mind how difficult it is to get things done if you keep 1 pt Q in that 10-20min period.
in bad lanes i usually do 1-1-1 in to 1-1-4-1, but even that feels pretty bad i can't imagine delaying maxing Q until 15+ mins
i guess its a playstyle thing
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I've pretty much played only tree for like 3 months as first pick every game. The hero is amazing with a competent core/lane partner.
I usually go 4-2-0-1 and only start making armour at 8. Getting max q is extremely important post laning because it's your map control ability. It allows you to ward deeper earlier, scout better and gank more efficiently.
The only real downside of max q is when your dumbass teammates spam ping you for having 0 armour when they've played like 1 tree game in the last 5 years.
Post laning stage you typically want to play in areas that are typically dangerous (aka dead lanes), to let your cores get more out of the map, or gank enemy cores that are off alone by themselves for which chain is q important. In terms of warding you typically want to avoid all the obvious cliff spots for map control, and instead go for key pathways/lane wards.
I think the leech seed talent is underrated...700 hp heals are no joke. However, against lineups that don't build mantas or dispels the root talent is also quite insane.
Don't build Midas, don't rush aghs, force your team to defend any tower pushes that can be contested and you're to go. This is from divine to beyond.
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On November 08 2018 23:26 Baggage wrote:
I've pretty much played only tree for like 3 months as first pick every game. The hero is amazing with a competent core/lane partner.
I usually go 4-2-0-1 and only start making armour at 8. Getting max q is extremely important post laning because it's your map control ability. It allows you to ward deeper earlier, scout better and gank more efficiently.
The only real downside of max q is when your dumbass teammates spam ping you for having 0 armour when they've played like 1 tree game in the last 5 years.
Post laning stage you typically want to play in areas that are typically dangerous (aka dead lanes), to let your cores get more out of the map, or gank enemy cores that are off alone by themselves for which chain is q important. In terms of warding you typically want to avoid all the obvious cliff spots for map control, and instead go for key pathways/lane wards.
I think the leech seed talent is underrated...700 hp heals are no joke. However, against lineups that don't build mantas or dispels the root talent is also quite insane.
Don't build Midas, don't rush aghs, force your team to defend any tower pushes that can be contested and you're to go. This is from divine to beyond.
ye i agree 100%
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EPT
