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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/7/7a/Treant_Protector_Large.png) Rooftrellen, the Treant Protector
Far to the west, in the mountains beyond the Vale of Augury, lie the remains of an ancient power, a fount of eldritch energy nestled deep in the high woods. It is said that the things that grow here, grow strangely. To the forces of nature this is a sacred place, made to stay hidden and unknown. Many are the traps and dangers of this land—all-consuming grasses and crossbred fauna and poisonous flowers—but none are so fierce as the mighty Treant Protectors. These ageless, titanic beings, charged with keeping the peace in this dangerous land, ensure that none within encroach without reason, and none without poach their secrets. For time untold they tended to their holy ground, uninterrupted, only dimly aware of the changing world beyond. Yet inevitably the wider world grew aware of this untamed land, and with each passing winter the outsiders grew bolder. Soon they arrived with tools to cut and with flames to burn, and often the Treants would ponder: who are these fragile, industrious creatures? What now had become of the wild, green world? There came and went an age of questions and of doubts, a thousand summers of long traditions set to scrutiny, while more and more the outsiders died and fed their earth. When all that bloomed had finally finished their say, curiosity had overcome caution. It was decided: a lone Protector would be sent into the wider world, and instructed to wander until the glaciers arose once more, to observe the changing land and its creatures, and to discover what unknown dangers could threaten their sacred ground.
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/3/3f/Treant_Protector_icon.png)  Treant Protector
This hero is picked more than Mirana it seems! Personally I find this hero boring to play, I thought he would be an awesome treebeard kind of guy but he ends up being like a less fun version of Omniknight. My guess is he's a top pro pick because Living Armor is a ridiculous global skill that Omni can't offer until after he gets aghs.
6.86 buffs:
- Leech Seed mana cost reduced from 100/110/120/130 to 80/95/110/125
- Overgrowth AoE increased from 675 to 800
- Scepter Overgrowth damage and vision AoE increased from 700 to 800
+ Show Spoiler [List of all hero discussion threads] +
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It seems like all his skills are good, his problem is just that his mana pool is low and he's melee. Of course, he does have insane damage which kinda makes up for it. I think he sucks as a solo support though.
Living armor does fall off later, as does Leech Seed. His ult is really high impact though, which makes up for it IMO.
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I miss the times when treant had free wards. Just plant them sneaky trees :D
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On June 23 2014 14:14 DucK- wrote:
I miss the times when treant had free wards. Just plant them sneaky trees :D
Yeah, way better than owl mines.
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On June 23 2014 14:14 DucK- wrote:
I miss the times when treant had free wards. Just plant them sneaky trees :D
Yeah me too... loved those trees!
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Tree is a great support for helping to maintain a lead or take advantage of a team that doesnt have a decent pushing lineup. I disagree that living armor gets worse over time. It gets less useful for healing teammates but once you have the mana to support it you are healing buildings almost nonstop. The unique utility of healing buildings is very strong and not to be underestimated.
His other skills are solid too. Leech seed is good early and helps with a rosh attempt in the early/mid game and natures guise is great for scoutting as the game goes into mid/late as most teams will not want to waste money on a gem or sentries to deal with a support tree. And if they do thats money that didnt go towards somethign that hurts your other teammates.
Also having a relatively low cd ult that goes through magic immunity is great at any point in the game.
Overall great support in almost all points in the game.
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How do you guys build him? I'm starting with Rob ->mana boots->drum->blink. Also have a bit of a problem with levels since I roam a lot early game for ganks once I hit level 4 (1-2-1). Thoughts?
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I always go boots first if I can convince the other support to grab all the initial support items. Treant is just so good at getting a lv1 first blood.
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On August 15 2014 08:41 Ace wrote:
How do you guys build him? I'm starting with Rob ->mana boots->drum->blink. Also have a bit of a problem with levels since I roam a lot early game for ganks once I hit level 4 (1-2-1). Thoughts?
Skip the Basi. You are just delaying your Arcanes unnecessarily as the Basi doesn't help to address any of Treant's problems.
If you are planning on getting a Blink, skip the drums too. It's more unnecessary spending delaying the more useful item.
For my Treant games, if I am building the Mek, I'm 100% going Arcs. If I'm not the Mek builder, then the options to solve my mana problems become more diversified depending on what my team needs or what I want to achieve. Don't chain yourself down to the same build every game. Brown boots into force or phase drums can all be good in certain situations. I would also have you strongly consider Force Staff. Blink is better than Forcestaff as an initiation tool because it is instant and has greater range but Overgrowth is a terrible initiating spell. It's best used as a counter initiator and Force is good enough for that (most of the time you can just walk in). Plus it has much wider utility while also solving mana pool problems if you didn't get Arcs.
As for the lvl issues, I think you are doing it backwards. You need to gank to get lvls, not get lvls to gank. Hitting lvl 4 gives you nothing that you couldn't have done at lvl2 with a smoke, not to mention hitting lvl4 with a support is really slow. You need to think about what your goals are and what is the quickest way to achieve them. Sure it would be nice to go gank with lvl2 leech, natures guise, and a basi, but if you could have done the same gank a lot earlier, why wait?
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On August 15 2014 08:41 Ace wrote:
How do you guys build him? I'm starting with Rob ->mana boots->drum->blink. Also have a bit of a problem with levels since I roam a lot early game for ganks once I hit level 4 (1-2-1). Thoughts?
I recommend going arcanes->urn> blink. Its similar to what you were doing but honestly the urn is better than rob and drum combined on this hero. Once you have arcanes you dont need INT and urn gives you mana regen and STR which is more than enough to get you started. Do not under estimate urn for healing or damage. I get so many garbage kills with it when an enemy is almost dead. Once you get this core you can pretty comfortably go whatever your team needs Pipe/AC/Shiva/Force but thats all luxury. Another way to approach his items is to get an early gem and an extra level or 2 in natures guise and just wreck havoc in enemy jungle screwing up camp spawns and setting up ganks.
If youre ganking well you should have lvl 6 pretty fast. If youre not dont be afraid to pull or take farm in an unused lane to get your 6 and get right back out there.
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Don't build drums on a hero that basically only contributed with living armour and overgrowth. You just need blink on him. Arcane are usually necessary. Mek is a good choice too, and may be gotten over blink. Anything else is a luxury.
You won't see a clear improvement with drums on support treant. It is a waste of gold. The rationale is of course that drums benefit the team, but your team would definitely appreciate you having an earlier blink instead.
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Wanted to bump this a bit cause I think treant deserves some love right now -- he's very strong against doom / void and pretty good vs tinker.
If you can get lv 7 fast enough, solo dooms can't get kills, and you can even turn fights and kill with leech seed. His ult is basically on the same timer as chrono late game and if one of your cores gets bubbled, treant ult pierces bkb.
On top of all that he's naturally str beefy, quite good vs the popular stuff nowadays
I think he better suits shutting down these cores and early roaming, he's pretty useless vs early aggressive push
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He's obviously a very good pick against Void in general. Armor can shut down Void's ability to solo kill almost entirely and he's tanky enough that if he does get caught the Void will have a hard time killing him.
Still he relies on getting levels and has to be ganking successfully early to make the most of the pick.
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Now that Nature's Guise only costs 60 mana, with a Soul Ring you could stay permanently invisible with level 2 NG.
This could make for an interesting offlane Treant, permanent invisibility with +10% move speed and Living Armor every 30s to whatever needs protecting.
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Hard carry Rooftrellen:
1) Buy Swaghanim's Scepter.
2) Put Eyes at all of the small and medium neutral creep camps.
3) Overgrowth every cooldown.
4) Prophet.
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On November 25 2014 09:53 piratekingflcl wrote:
Hard carry Rooftrellen:
1) Buy Swaghanim's Scepter.
2) Put Eyes at all of the small and medium neutral creep camps.
3) Overgrowth every cooldown.
4) Prophet.
If you get your support Bloodseeker to rage you before cast, can you do hard camps too?
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On November 25 2014 17:53 ASoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2014 09:53 piratekingflcl wrote:
Hard carry Rooftrellen:
1) Buy Swaghanim's Scepter.
2) Put Eyes at all of the small and medium neutral creep camps.
3) Overgrowth every cooldown.
4) Prophet. If you get your support Bloodseeker to rage you before cast, can you do hard camps too?
If no one else is clearing them between cooldowns, you can do them on your own. Most medium creeps will be sitting at half HP anyway.
For added fun, you can plant them along the lanes as well and basically have global split push while farming everything except ancients.
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it can take a long time to setup this ! ^^
Agah + time spended placing the wards (60sec CD) but it can be quite fun
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Now that Nature's Guise only costs 60 mana, with a Soul Ring you could stay permanently invisible with level 2 NG.
This could make for an interesting offlane Treant, permanent invisibility with +10% move speed and Living Armor every 30s to whatever needs protecting.
I've always wondered if you could make this work. Would getting high levels on treant be enough to justify taking the offlane? Maybe with a lineup that synergises well with living armor?
I really like this hero but I never end up playing him mostly because I feel unsure of what to do with him. I know he hits like a truck early and makes a good frontline body/ counter initiator later on. Anyone have some general tips on what to focus on when playing treant and the situations in which he is a good pickup?
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Offlane treant is in my opinion even better than support in many ways. In 1v2 lanes you can just bully the support and farm the lane with your ridiculous right click damage, and the moment you are left 1v1 you do the same to the carry. When you get 6 you become a very powerful roaming machine for a brief timing, so you can call a support to take over your (probably won) lane. If you are versing a trilane (which is already a win since they commit 3 heroes to a stupid tree), just soak exp and farm when supports leave to gank.
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I mean, just from a laning perspective sure treant can go offlane since he's pretty tanky and got two heals and an invis. But really after you got that lvl 7 you're pretty much turning into a third (or 2nd with jungler) support. You dont scale, you have no special items to farm, you cant make any plays. Maybe you could make play by maxing leech seed and 1-2pts in invis, but then you'll miss everything thats good about the hero.
Yes its nice to get an early lvl 7 and all, but really unless your team is snowballing at a very early stage of the game you'll end up as a slightly overleveled support which really isnt worth it. So many other offlaners can stay much more relevant for a lot longer.
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Agha Treant is so ridiculous :D
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On February 09 2015 19:40 robaq wrote:
Offlane treant is in my opinion even better than support in many ways. In 1v2 lanes you can just bully the support and farm the lane with your ridiculous right click damage, and the moment you are left 1v1 you do the same to the carry. When you get 6 you become a very powerful roaming machine for a brief timing, so you can call a support to take over your (probably won) lane. If you are versing a trilane (which is already a win since they commit 3 heroes to a stupid tree), just soak exp and farm when supports leave to gank.
On February 09 2015 19:55 Kreb wrote:
Yes its nice to get an early lvl 7 and all, but really unless your team is snowballing at a very early stage of the game you'll end up as a slightly overleveled support which really isnt worth it. So many other
offlaners can stay much more relevant for a lot longer.
Well i'm glad i asked this question because it seems to warrant some discussion ^^ The answer seems to depend mostly on whether you can effectively stay in lane and get some farm. Basically rushing level 6-7 and then leaving to roam and push. I agree that this is quit a specific situation, and that it might be more useful to have these levels on other heroes.
I could imagine a situation were you might go to an abandoned offlane to soak xp with NG (soulring/manaboots) when you notice you don't have much else to do, right? You lose your right clicking umph pretty quickly and in passive games it is sometimes hard to find other useful things to do
(+babysitting can be done remotely).
And as a related question: when to pick Treant (support), and what to do after your done punching offlaners?
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I think treant is a much better support than an offlaner. Although getting aghs is really nice on him, I feel like most of his game impact results from living armor spam, so he doesn't need much gold or experience. He's a decent roaming support, zoner, and ganker with his leech seed + power punches and if he's run offlane he often has to use armor on himself which takes away a lot of his early game impact.
Speaking of which, can someone explain how this hero has so much impact as a support in pubs? He's statistically my best hero at 3.8k mmr but when I play him all I do is pull safelane jungle camps (I don't feel confident looking for armor targets and zoning at the same time), occasionally fight with my team, buy wards, and use living armor on teammates whenever I can.
I always have awful kda, xpm, and gpm but my team still wins. Is it because people don't know how to deal with living armor at low mmr, so it consistently changes the outcome of engagements?
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I think that a huge impact Treant has on pubs is kinda shutting down solo pushers. Grouping up as five to take a tower is uncommon, so you can keep all your T1's alive for a very long time. This of course makes the game way easier, although people might not notice it.
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On February 10 2015 16:53 Rainling wrote:
Speaking of which, can someone explain how this hero has so much impact as a support in pubs? He's statistically my best hero at 3.8k mmr but when I play him all I do is pull safelane jungle camps (I don't feel confident looking for armor targets and zoning at the same time), occasionally fight with my team, buy wards, and use living armor on teammates whenever I can.
I always have awful kda, xpm, and gpm but my team still wins. Is it because people don't know how to deal with living armor at low mmr, so it consistently changes the outcome of engagements?
This is exactly how I feel when playing him: running around feeling useless while somehow still helping to win games.
I do feel that heals are very strong at low mmr, which is also why omniknight and abbadon have such a high winrate i think. People forget to factor in the heals/shields and overextend, allowing your team to collapse on them and clean up.
Having said that i don't think that treant is an Abba/omni level healer so there have to be some other factors (like the structure heal robaq mentiones). Another thing i really like is that the ultimate goes through BKB.
I'm gonna play some more games on him using these criteria for picking:
- Are there things for me to punch early (low ms/melee heroes)
- Do we need a body & counter initiator
- Do they have a (slow) split pusher like NP or heroes that tend to push out the lane
I'm also gonna try to use NG more because it seems like there is a lot of benefit to get from using it effectively.
Final question: always go mek if no one else is? Or is the blink to good to skip?
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Random treant tip: You're like the best gem carrier in the game. You need no other items and you can contribute with all your spells from invis in team fights. Buy that gem at first sign of you needing it.
Hell I even tried counterpicking Clinkz a couple of times with treant. Think Im like 4-0 or something in the matchup. Get arcane boots -> Gem (or even gem before arcanes if you have a bad game and you need to stop his snowballing before you have time to get both) and run around in your jungle with 2pts in guise. It completely stops his ability to continue solo ganks. And pubs seldom counter buys detection ("its a treant lolol fuck detection") but even if they do its hard to kill you with dust since you're invis all fights they first need to hit you with dust then lock you down and kill you. And gems to counter you with your gem doesnt happen.
Its also great vs stuff like sblade Slark or snowballing BHs/Nyx's (uncommon).
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I actually think you could run treant as an offlaner, but you cannot run him as position 3. You could put him in offlane as position 5 hero to leech exp, if you have a jungler and an easy to zone out offlaner from enemy team, but giving treant any farm priority is just wasteful. The fact of the matter is that treant is not in a good spot right now as a hero, he was best for keeping towers alive, but since the patch that greatly reduced tower gold he lost much of his usefulness. He really is a niche pick currently, he's very good with early game diving heroes like slark, weaver or undying, however he is really weak in teamfights as he does very little damage, so in a team with heroes that lack damage output in teamfights he is close to auto-loss in current pub meta.
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On February 10 2015 18:36 llKyonll wrote:
Final question: always go mek if no one else is? Or is the blink to good to skip?
I feel like mek is not great on tree because he's always using his mana for stuff, so he doesn't have a lot to spare. It's still a good item when your team is in need of one though. Also he farms really slowly so the mek will generally be very late. Blink is decent, so is force staff, because his spells provide a lot of short-range utility. I think vlad's is usually a better version of mek on tree because it benefits his mana pool, enables him to farm more sustainably, and scales better into the lategame, which is appropriate considering how late it will be coming out.
I think ppd's dotabuff is a good guide to itemization on treant. I'm going to start copying him. I feel like agh's is so good though, not sure why he never builds it.
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On February 10 2015 22:42 Rainling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2015 18:36 llKyonll wrote:
Final question: always go mek if no one else is? Or is the blink to good to skip? I feel like mek is not great on tree because he's always using his mana for stuff, so he doesn't have a lot to spare. It's still a good item when your team is in need of one though. Also he farms really slowly so the mek will generally be very late. Blink is decent, so is force staff, because his spells provide a lot of short-range utility. I think vlad's is usually a better version of mek on tree because it benefits his mana pool, enables him to farm more sustainably, and scales better into the lategame, which is appropriate considering how late it will be coming out. I think ppd's dotabuff is a good guide to itemization on treant. I'm going to start copying him. I feel like agh's is so good though, not sure why he never builds it.
Because he never ever gets the farm for it :D
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imo: The reason why he doesnt build aghs septer is by the time you actually get it, a hex or other item would actually be more impactfull in a teamfight. The only combo i know of that actually works is aghs treant+natures prophet because if he has vision off all junglecamps he can ultimate and kill all junglecreeps on the map every 60 seconds, making him richer then hugh hefner! Else it sucks for its cost.
Maybe if they would change it so the visiontrees damages nearby creeps in a small aoe, so you could jungle with the aghsupgrade slowly and multiple camps at once. Then aghs could be rushed and treant could become a semi core on a pos4 (a bit like silencer if he steals alot of int)..
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How are you guys building support tree these days?
I think arcanes is a must for the hero (because soul ring + tranquils does not give him a large enough mana pool to use all of his spells), and i have been building arcane to mek to aghs. The issue with this build is the mek is usually pretty late (in the 20 minute mark) and the aghs is very late (30-40 min), building guardian greaves eventually if the game goes long enough.
Are there other items you guys would suggest to build outside mek? I think something in the 2K gold price range is right to build after arcanes. (Drums or force staff or blademail, with the only exception being medallion or maybe urn.) I prefer bigger items because of the restriction to item slots (I usually buy a quelling blade for dewarding in the midgame and carry wards and dust).
Do you think I should just be rushing the aghs instead of an intermediary item? I have found aghs to really pull its weight, and earlier is better because you get to just cover the map, but you trade off a large amount of time where you don't add much else to your team while building it.
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It's pubs. You should be able to get an Agha at a certain time. Then you plant trees everywhere since pubs don't buy Gem + Quelling for the longest time.
And I think SR is sufficient. Only time you are out of mana is because of active usage of Leech/Overgrowth, of which you usually do not use often.
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I kinda have my own way of playing treant I think, but I've found it to be very effective. I basically abuse the fact that treant is the best gem-carrier in the game.
I almost exclusively pick him against Clinkz, Brood, Slark and the odd carry-Riki. Then I either go Arcanes->Gem or even Gem->Arcanes depending on how early I need the gem. Two points in guise (to not have to spam-recast to stay invis) and afterwards you just run around in your jungle. You get like no items that way and you'll likely stay low level, but I've been a big part in turning around multiple games where the invis hero gets a good start. Last treant game I had (actually against VP.Illidan on Clinkz) the Clinkz got off to a very good start with like 13-14min deso or something and I absolutely believe that game was lost without me just going brown boots into gem. I even skipped stick and some wards to get an earlier gem, like litterally brown boots->gem. But we killed him a few times, stopped the snowball and turned it around eventually.
Broods and Clinkz's gets fucked the hardest because their whole solo play game kinda gets destroyed and they're both vulnerable to both Overgrowth and Leech Seed.
Slark is so-so because he'll notice when a gem-treant is on top of him and his Dark Pact pretty much deals with everything Treant can do. He is also less dependent on solo plays and can play a farming game too. Ideally you need strong lockdown from your teammates to catch him. But you'll still likely force him out of your jungle anyway.
Carry-Riki barely exists so not sure if I ever played that matchup, but should be good for the treant.
Even if they counter-buy detection its very hard to kill you since you contribute with all your spells from invis. And you only really commit to a fight to get an overgrowth off, so if they do stuff like dust after overgrowth you're probably already on your way out from the fight and wont die. Also none of the above heroes have TP interrupt so if a Slark buys dust and pops it on you when he notices hes in vision or a Brood buys gem, just TP out.
Its not a playstyle for everyone I guess since you're doing very little except running around your jungle with gem. But I kinda enjoy it :p
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agree the above is really cool, another of treeants great strengths is his ability like support bounty to be able to get great deep wards off safely.
I find medallion/solar crest to be great on treeant, as you are hanging back in fights anyway, as well as just being amazing items for rosh and stuff in general. Also if im playing hard support, Ill often go urn and medallion skipping arcanes, which gives me enough mana regen to skip arcanes (may have to occasionally ferry a clarity out with wards but nowhere near the cost of arcanes).
By the time aghs comes online when playing hard support the game is usually over, when you can get a blink for half the price to give you team-fight winning ults. People always say the vision is amazing, they're not wrong, but you are a treeant so you should always have great deep wards and you scouting anyway, so you still have good vision without aghs.
aghs speeds up your farm speed greatly so on a say position 3 tree it can be good, but increasing your farm speed at 45 minutes is a bit late for hard support
I tend to always first pick in ranked, and one issue I often come across with 1st pick tree, is it can end with your team going too greedy giving you 0 kill potential in all lanes whilst they have a ranged offlaner, making you pretty much useless for the laning stage.
In these cases I tend to just go for a mid bottle snipe, as treeant one hit kills it.
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Saki [NETOGE] is a creative forummember and suggested in my short "bountyhunter draftquiz" that riki offlane could be a good counterpick against a support bountyhunter when you run a jungler like enchantress. He would try to get firstblood with riki+enchantress on the bountyhunter in the early stages of the game.
After reading kreb's post, maybe its also possible to accomplish firstblood on a bountyhunter at lvl1 or lvl2 (lvl1 guise & lvl2 leechseed)+enchantress. I haven’t tested this at all, just theorycrafting here. Bountyhunter would hopefully reach lvl6 too late to change the outcome of the game. bad idea or doable?
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On June 01 2015 21:05 govie wrote:
Saki [NETOGE] is a creative forummember and suggested in my short "bountyhunter draftquiz" that riki offlane could be a good counterpick against a support bountyhunter when you run a jungler like enchantress. He would try to get firstblood with riki+enchantress on the bountyhunter in the early stages of the game.
After reading kreb's post, maybe its also possible to accomplish firstblood on a bountyhunter at lvl1 or lvl2 (lvl1 guise & lvl2 leechseed)+enchantress. I haven’t tested this at all, just theorycrafting here. Bountyhunter would hopefully reach lvl6 too late to change the outcome of the game. bad idea or doable?
although bounty has the ability of being able to track team-mates you're trying to guise-save in later-game. for the early stage of the game treeant should wreck a support bounty. being able to living armour whatever lane he ganks, and preventing the gank/kill without ever having to even rotate can win you the early game so hard against support bounty.
regardless of whether or not you can 1st blood him, support tree works out great vs bounty.
Think its eg who had success at summit 3 with using treeant support to counterpick support bounty
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Has it occurred to anyone that you can do an aggressive Overgrowth with Aghs, Blink and a branch? While remaining entirely invisible no less!
Cast invisibility near a tree. Then blink and plant the branch. You will remain invisible thanks to the grace period. Now if you enchant the tree and ulti you will create an effect similar to Shaker ulti.
Requires a few minutes in demo mode to practice, but it's a very cool trick. If you practise it enough, you can easily do it fast enough so the enemy won't have time to react.
The items are also quite rational and possible to obtain on tree, so it's not an entirely unreasonable thing to pull off even in a high level game.
Just throwing this idea here if any tree players want to try it out.
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I mean this ideally works when you catch the enemy team grouped up. So in this hypothetical, do none of them have stuns? Also this relies on them not being smart enough to just carry a quelling and delete your tree right away.
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Stuns are not really a problem. Unless you have arthritis it is going to be pretty much as fast as blink ultying.
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On June 07 2016 15:02 Karpfen wrote:
Stuns are not really a problem. Unless you have arthritis it is going to be pretty much as fast as blink ultying.
It's .2s or .3s slower (Liquipedia contradicts itself) which means it will come out after the cast frontswing of most other heroes.
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Out of all the new stuff going on I feel like the dark horse is going to be this new nature's guies. Laning against Treant will be a nightmare. Treant might even end up with a winrate similar to omni-kinght. +50% winrates heroes getting a huge buff, SeemsGood Thanks frozentoad!
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Keep in mind that roots were also majorly buffed to stop all sorts of mobility skills, making tree ult very, very good now.
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treant is disabled in new captain's mode for a reason even IF expects he might be too fucked for competitive
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I've been spamming treant in unranked pubs for a couple hours, went "carry build", the new nature's guise is indeed very, very strong : the bash is crazy.
But it's also quite annoying as you need to stay surprisingly close to trees for it to stick (feels the range has been nerfed from the old spell). I lost my invis a lot while walking in the jungle. He's very strong in lane though, for sure.
The 20% 2s bash at level 25 is ridiculous on a "carry" build. And he also gets +65 dmg or something along the way. Om nom nom.
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treads - echo sabre - sange yasha - bkb - butterfly/assault/mjolnir
Is this the best treant carry build? Would mordiggian be a good pick up as well? (it would be close to be a burst with echo) Midas might be a good way to get fast levels + help attack speed + accelerate farm even
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I'd argue that SnY is way overkill with an Echo already. Blink is better bang for buck, or just go into a Assault.
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It helps with overall attack speed tho + it helps with team fighting so you can run people down and be harder to be kited with force staffs and slows. While blink also helps with mobility, it don't have synergy with the nature's desguise, wich would be your main way of initiation.
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I guess it depends on the game (what your team is made of, and what their team is made of). Do they have mass physical, do they have burst, lot of control, escape, etc.
I carried really hard with treads -> echo -> blademail -> AC -> bloodthorne -> satanic. +65 dmg and 20% 2s bash, ofc. Also I made a Helm of a dominator somewhere along the way, OP regen and nice to scout roshan.
But yeah, I mean it worked on that game (we had slardar, they had LC + lycan), probably wouldn't have on a different setup. Was quite fun tho :>
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If you ever gonna concider carry Treant, its attackspeed his base is great and good dmg gain and hp gain.
Echosaber would suit well for the mana regen needed.
battlfury would be niche/farm pickup and works well with change on his ultimate to cleave. and to increase his farmrate.
bkb is an obvious one.
However for attackspeed i would go with mjollnir. due to he himself is great target to apply it on. and the bounces on attack during ult is great damage. for him.
Problem comes that he dont have much armor as most str heroes and will need some sort of armor item, ac feels like an overkill on his attackspeed but certainly is viable but i mean this is alot of gold.
I just dont feel treant ever will be a good carry.especially since at highground pushes, there is no trees to abuse his natures guise wich might seem little but its kinda big.
if i would ever play him as right clicker it would be more like a disruptor durable tank like, sb
armor ms and as is his weakness damage is not somthing you will need, if anything it would be crit or mkb.
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Vlad, dominator and mordiggian are viable sources of armor, while those being pretty cheap. Blade mail may be viable as well, if you manage to be such a threat that can't be ignored in a team fight.
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On December 13 2016 00:15 Pontual wrote:
It helps with overall attack speed tho + it helps with team fighting so you can run people down and be harder to be kited with force staffs and slows. While blink also helps with mobility, it don't have synergy with the nature's desguise, wich would be your main way of initiation.
Nature's guise requires you to be very close to trees, and in many spots on the map there are gaps that you can't cross without becoming visible and losing your bash. Blink mitigates this, and also allows you to get in great position to ult + whack people in teamfights.
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On December 13 2016 05:03 xxpack09 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2016 00:15 Pontual wrote:
It helps with overall attack speed tho + it helps with team fighting so you can run people down and be harder to be kited with force staffs and slows. While blink also helps with mobility, it don't have synergy with the nature's desguise, wich would be your main way of initiation. Nature's guise requires you to be very close to trees, and in many spots on the map there are gaps that you can't cross without becoming visible and losing your bash. Blink mitigates this, and also allows you to get in great position to ult + whack people in teamfights.
uhh
the best way to medigate this is to buy branches and plant trees along the way. Even in old patch I did some rediculously troll build with treant ganking mid with iron branch to get closer in range to cast my leech seed from invis xD
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(mitigate)
and xD at the iron branch mid, good idea ^^ Doesn't work with MK treeform btw.
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ive always wanted them to have some small trees in middle lane for this specific reason heroes like timber/treant and now Mk.
like a clumb in 4 places that dont obscure vision to much.
Would not be to much to ask for tbh 
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just went trolling with a friend, the bash is hilarious, I killed full HP legion end game with like 300 hp cuz i perma-bashed her to oblivion...
his bash stack with abyssal bash, so I think... you just go mjonir abyssal on this guy and you can stun lock for days, you have abyssal stun, abyssal proc stun, your innate proc stun, and ultimate if things gets tricky, honestly the best lockdown hero in the game if you can get the first abyssal hit in. Its like the old troll from dota 1 lul. Pretty sure it's not that good higher skill lvl but for lulul it's amazing fun
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2842700006
You're the biggest AM counter right now, you just sit in his jungle wait for him to farm neutrals, come out of invis stun him 2 sec, echo sabre hit some more, turn on ult, some more echo sabr hit, dead hero.
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Is the bf good? Can he farm efficiently after the hero gets it? Or would you recommend a sny more?
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On December 13 2016 21:01 evanthebouncy! wrote:
honestly the best lockdown hero in the game if you can get the first abyssal hit in.
Or just use a dagger from tree invis -> guaranteed first hit 2s bash. Because the invis lingers a bit (and so does the bash attached to attacking from invis).
I played him some more yesterday (power treads / echo sabre / dagger / blademail / ac), this guy is indeed quite the roamer / semi-carry now.
And dat ms while invis /drool
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I would love to love this hero, but his invis is just so annoying to use. I feel like they've done something to the way it checks.
It decloaks randomly so often in the new jungle, and I swear there are gaps that sometimes you can cross and sometimes you can't. I have no confidence sneaking around enemy heroes anymore.
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On December 30 2016 08:11 Belisarius wrote:
I would love to love this hero, but his invis is just so annoying to use. I feel like they've done something to the way it checks.
It decloaks randomly so often in the new jungle, and I swear there are gaps that sometimes you can cross and sometimes you can't. I have no confidence sneaking around enemy heroes anymore.
The radius is REALLY small. Test it in demo mode, it's like... you can make 1,5 step from a tree, but not more.
On the gaps, I want to agree with you, I sort of had the same experience, or feeling anyway. Would need to test further.
I feel dagger is that much important now, for those reasons (need to hug trees so hard + crossing gaps feels unreliable), and also to get the free bash initiation. And ult.
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TREE ANT not TRENT
TREE ANT
Alrighty so treant is one of the strongest supports in 719, so I thought I’d post a mini guide to anyone who is looking for a support to climb with. I’ve played around 60 treant games in the last two months of solo queue, gained around 500 mmr to reach just about divine 2 again after losing a bunch during recalibration. My win rate with Dota buff is 70%, which as a first pick hero is pretty absurd.
I’m going to base this post around playing him as a pos 5. I know he is most commonly run as a 4, but I am a pretty old and slow player, so I find freeing up farm for my 4 is better, and tree doesn’t need items to have a crazy impact.
game plan and mindset
All right so treant does a few things really well, and there’s a lot of misconceptions about him too.
His biggest strength (and you should always be thinking about this) is mid game, when you are a map control monster. You have a perma invis and max movespeed. He can easily plant very deep wards and set up insane vision. When the game slows down, he sets up key kills on split pushing heroes easily. His Q when maxed is one of the most obnoxiously abilities in the game at 10-20 mins. Absolutely you should be building treant to take advantage of this.
His secondary strength is his laning. He more or less guarantees a won lane if you itemize correctly. 100 base dmg and a root, with tons of hp.
His third strength which is overrated by pretty much everyone is his healing and sustain. You can keep objectives alive for a while, and save heroes who shouldn’t be saved. That said, I’m gunna be frank about this, if you play treant defensively and passively, you are going to lose more than you should. Watching friends play, it’s almost always the problem. There are better heroes for healing than tree.
Lastly, agha is very overrated, but still very good. I’ll explain in a bit.
starting items and laning
Where to lane? Wherever you will be more effective. Doesn’t matter this patch. Figure it out with your cores.
Start 2 obs, shield, 2 tangos, (sentry if the other support gets something). You should do this in 90% of your games. Why not oov? OOV is good if you have a very strong lane partner and the enemy core or sup can’t get away. But nowadays, you usually have slippery heroes like weaver or grim or something, and OOV does nothing for you. Stout helps you trade and tank hits, which is crazy good when you are trading 100 dmg autos. If you really want you can get an oov later.
Laning strategy is simple. You skill q, you hide in trees, you bop people, you hide again, you bop again, you hide again. That’s it. You are there to eat through regen and force them to waste gold of sentries. You can pull if your lane gets pushed out.
itemization
So after your starting items, you want to follow this game plan. I’ve broken it in to steps. You always want to keep obs out of stock and courier them to your other lanes if you are sitting and bopping heroes.
Early game: brown boots - tranqs - wind lace - wand. You need movespeed more than anything. You come online with lv 4 q, tranqs, and lace.
Mana sustain — just eat clarities. I buy 10-15 per game I think
Mid game: urn-vessel, or meteor hammer. Sometimes force. Up to you and how your team is itemizing, but urn-vessel is going to be the best in 90% of games. Vessel is actually broken and for some reason people don’t like building it. Just tell your team you are building it, or make sure your 4 pos rushes it instead of getting some useless shit like blademail.
Most games end or are decided around this point.
Llxury stuff late game: Blink is very good almost always. Force same. Euls sometimes. Some games you’ll want to go aghs for map control, but I find it’s veyr rarely worth the long build up. Treant doesn’t get gold easily although it’s doable with meteor. You have to consider if aghs will be better than blink-force, and usually it won’t be for a pos 5.
Common traps: starting OOV with no kill potential. Rushing arcanes. Rushing Midas. Rushing blink. Not buying wards. Small incremental items like tranqs and wind lace are where it’s at.
skill build
Ok so you know how to lane and itemize, here’s how to use ur points.
Generally, you want to skill as aggressively as possible. Think of it as playing greedy, I guess. You want lv 4 Q at 7 unless something goes horribly wrong. Sometimes a few value points in leech is the way to go. I find 4-2-0-1 to be ideal most games. You REALLY want to be able to run around as an invisible monster causing problems at lv 7, it’s where you are strongest. 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-4-x come midgame
Avoid maxing E when possible. A single point in E is pretty bad. Sometimes it will turn a dive or whatever, and your team will ping you, but it’s really not great. E is only good with multiple points, so a lot of people max it first, but you really don’t want to play defensive tree.
The only times I’d say max e is if you are doing a 1-1-4-1 build to salvage a terrible terrible lane. Like spec treant or slark treant vs grim tiny or something. But honestly even if you help that lane, your ability to do things mid game is diminished, and it’s often not worthwhile.
I’ll explain why in this next section in more detail.
post laning play style
All right so the laning phase is starting to end, or you decide to move for a kill, or whatever. You are in charge of the mid game. The power of your Q is insane. You have a 3 second fade time with a 2.2s root. And your ult is bonkers. Run around, bop people from invis, set up kills for your cores.
It’s VERY strong vs mobile heroes like ember or weaver or am or whatever. You tp to a lane, run down it and plant a deep ward, and wait for your core to show up. It’s almost always a kill if you play it right.
This is where your team should start to pull ahead in farm and xp, their cores should be afraid of showing on the map, and you should have very deep vision so you can safely play dotes.
mid/late team fights
All right so late game you want to keep a similar style with a few differences. You become more of a counter initiator in team fights. Your priority is to play around your Q cool down and try to root important cores.
Biggest difference here is watching for spirit vessel targets, and waiting for bkbs before you overgrowth. Tree has 2 bkb piercing stuns. One on a 3s CD.
If you have a meteor, it has obvious synergy with your q and ult.
talents
10% CD-R is usually better, if you are doing the panic max E then yeah take that other talent
90 dmg is a lot and it’s what you usually want, but tree respawn is very useful in games vs tree clear because you depend on your q
Guise root is insanely good. You can perma root people.
Both 25s are good, you can go either way. Aoe sustain is underrated.
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Thanks for sharing, was looking for a decent 5 sup atm, so that definitely helps a lot.
I assume that if you go two in leech seed early you go 1:2:0 if your lane partner can add some damage?
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I actually play completely sacrificial treant max armor always with 67% Winrate at ancient 3 bracket 
Global armor's just OP and people don't know how to play vs it
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On October 21 2018 02:29 Archeon wrote:
Thanks for sharing, was looking for a decent 5 sup atm, so that definitely helps a lot.
I assume that if you go two in leech seed early you go 1:2:0 if your lane partner can add some damage?
yea 1-2-0 is ideal
i think 1-2-0 in to 4-2-0-1 and then 4-2-4-1 is usually the best
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On October 21 2018 06:26 LemOn wrote:I actually play completely sacrificial treant max armor always with 67% Winrate at ancient 3 bracket Global armor's just OP and people don't know how to play vs it
def good i just hate the playstyle. I like the setting up plays/mobility aspect of treant
to be a bit more specific i find to win dota games you have to be the one making the plays, if you play reactively you generally are going to lose
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Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed.
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On October 24 2018 11:40 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed.
Well yeah obviously that sounds terrible. But it’s on you spec picker if you first picked so w/e
The only times I’d say max e is if you are doing a 1-1-4-1 build to salvage a terrible terrible lane. Like spec treant or slark treant vs grim tiny or something
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Another thing — you should get every ranged creep and deny in lane with your stout and 100 base dmg. Even if you take the CS from your carry, XPM is too important now to give up ranged creeps. If your lane is contested, always always take the ranged creep unless your carry is 99% gunna get it.
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On October 23 2018 03:42 ahw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2018 06:26 LemOn wrote:I actually play completely sacrificial treant max armor always with 67% Winrate at ancient 3 bracket Global armor's just OP and people don't know how to play vs it def good i just hate the playstyle. I like the setting up plays/mobility aspect of treant to be a bit more specific i find to win dota games you have to be the one making the plays, if you play reactively you generally are going to lose
Not really
I do play Ancient 3 range though, role matchmaking the carries tend to be somewhat competent
But global armor + salves for carry + deny almost every creep in lane = that 67% winrate in solo Q 
Max Leech seed+armor is just a huge boost for push/depush, why you see most pros maxing them first and max 1 level in invis
And midgame all you get is medallion/solar + wand tranquil and you're set/ready to push
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On October 24 2018 11:40 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed.
That lane's no question
Max leech seed+armor+carry spare salve(s)
and get a value invis point if there's a ranged harasser like WR
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On October 31 2018 01:47 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2018 11:40 M.S.Bismarck wrote:
Just tried max guise with a Spectre against an Underlord Mirana lane and got trashed. That lane's no question Max leech seed+armor+carry spare salve(s) and get a value invis point if there's a ranged harasser like WR
idk i would disagree, there's no support that would salvage an underlord +1 aggro lane when you have a spec. maybe a really aggressive magic support like skywrath or grim, but even then ur almost certainly gunna lose the lane if they buy regen. Def can't win it with a melee support.
playing with spec is more about getting out of the laning phase and playing recovery through kills and ganks, which tree offers if you skill him aggressively.
just keep in mind how difficult it is to get things done if you keep 1 pt Q in that 10-20min period.
in bad lanes i usually do 1-1-1 in to 1-1-4-1, but even that feels pretty bad i can't imagine delaying maxing Q until 15+ mins
i guess its a playstyle thing
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I've pretty much played only tree for like 3 months as first pick every game. The hero is amazing with a competent core/lane partner.
I usually go 4-2-0-1 and only start making armour at 8. Getting max q is extremely important post laning because it's your map control ability. It allows you to ward deeper earlier, scout better and gank more efficiently.
The only real downside of max q is when your dumbass teammates spam ping you for having 0 armour when they've played like 1 tree game in the last 5 years.
Post laning stage you typically want to play in areas that are typically dangerous (aka dead lanes), to let your cores get more out of the map, or gank enemy cores that are off alone by themselves for which chain is q important. In terms of warding you typically want to avoid all the obvious cliff spots for map control, and instead go for key pathways/lane wards.
I think the leech seed talent is underrated...700 hp heals are no joke. However, against lineups that don't build mantas or dispels the root talent is also quite insane.
Don't build Midas, don't rush aghs, force your team to defend any tower pushes that can be contested and you're to go. This is from divine to beyond.
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On November 08 2018 23:26 Baggage wrote:
I've pretty much played only tree for like 3 months as first pick every game. The hero is amazing with a competent core/lane partner.
I usually go 4-2-0-1 and only start making armour at 8. Getting max q is extremely important post laning because it's your map control ability. It allows you to ward deeper earlier, scout better and gank more efficiently.
The only real downside of max q is when your dumbass teammates spam ping you for having 0 armour when they've played like 1 tree game in the last 5 years.
Post laning stage you typically want to play in areas that are typically dangerous (aka dead lanes), to let your cores get more out of the map, or gank enemy cores that are off alone by themselves for which chain is q important. In terms of warding you typically want to avoid all the obvious cliff spots for map control, and instead go for key pathways/lane wards.
I think the leech seed talent is underrated...700 hp heals are no joke. However, against lineups that don't build mantas or dispels the root talent is also quite insane.
Don't build Midas, don't rush aghs, force your team to defend any tower pushes that can be contested and you're to go. This is from divine to beyond.
ye i agree 100%
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/f/f3/Treant_protector_natures_guise.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/4/4f/Treant_protector_leech_seed.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/6/66/Treant_protector_living_armor.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/3/3f/Treant_protector_overgrowth.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/commons/images/1/16/Treant_protector_eyes_in_the_forest.png)
