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On October 09 2015 19:36 makmeatt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 18:16 PoulsenB wrote:
Is vanguard still viable as a pre-radiance sustain/survivabiliy item? If it is, what should be the buildup? Stout/regen/branches > brown boots > quelling > phase > vit booser into full vanguard?
I feel vanguard would be quite alright in lower level pubs, where there are a lot of random fights and lots of people go for the urn, making it impractical to get for the Spectre player (with all the pudges and huskars running around). It's p.good in my experience, you can get it by 8 minutes with this buildup and it makes you feel much more comfortable farming lanes after the laning phase, plus you can actually farm jungle without biting your fingernails off all the time. If you are unsure about your farming capabilities in a particular game, just get a vit booster and then decide whether to finish it and then start saving for radi or to get radi as soon as possible, with the vit booster being used later for the heart. The sooner you get radi the better, since burning haunt will be that much more deadly and you can skew the game in your favor much quicker. Urn is p.good against pudger AND huskar since it's pure damage, and you shouldn't be manmoding huskar until much later anyway.
Thanks mate, I'll try it out today after work 
As for the urn, I meant that you often have other urn carriers in your team who get it regardless of what other people are doing, so if you get one as well you can't get charges reliably ;]
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New dispersion's extra effect with damage block, by the numbers:
Stout shield + level 1 Dispersion - 1.6 extra damage reflected per proc (0.8 avg. per attack)
Stout shield + level 2 Dispersion - 2.24 extra damage reflected per proc (1.14 avg per attack)
Poor man's shield + level 1 Dispersion - 2 extra damage reflected per proc. The effect of reflecting before the extra armor is negligible (roughly 0.25% of the attack)
Poor man's shield + level 4 dispersion - 4.4 extra damage reflected per proc. The effect of reflecting before the extra armor is almost negligible (roughly 0.5% of the attack)
Vanguard + level 1 Dispersion - 4 extra damage reflected per proc (3 avg. per attack)
Vanguard + level 4 Dispersion - 8.8 extra damage reflected per proc (6.6 avg per attack)
Crimson Guard buff + level 4 Dispersion - 12 extra damage reflected per attack
Pipe of Insight barrier should still block damage before Dispersion applies. I have not tested this, however. If it does disperse damage done to the Pipe barrier, the interaction would reflect 112 extra damage.
Guardian Angel/Cold Embrace + level 4 Dispersion - No extra damage negated, but now returns 22% of incoming damage.
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SoCal8910 Posts
its still not worth leveling before anything else though.
I played her the other day, felt pretty good about getting 4 points into desolate with the new phase boots.
my question is, desolate only works on creeps if they are completely by themselves, as in there is no hero OR other friendly/neutral creeps near by? in the heat of the game I only paid attention at certain times and that's what I thought I noticed. just want to confirm.
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neuts shouldn't block desolate (they used to but it was fixed, theres a chance it could be broken again), allied creeps do* block
edit: dont -> do
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SoCal8910 Posts
when you say allied creeps..
im referring to the fact that if I am alone in lane (no enemy heroes near by) and im last hitting..
are you saying that MY creeps won't block desolate?
or are you saying that the enemy's surrounding creeps won't block desolate?
basically if there are no heroes near by, should my desolate work on enemy lane creeps and neutrals, no matter how many of them are next to one another.
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whoops my bad i meant to say allied creeps do block
enemy creeps block, specs creeps do not block
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Yeah IIRC desolate only works on creep that are isolated from other enemy creep, I think the ranged creep is generally far enough away from the melee creep for desolate to work for example, or when youre killing the last creep in the wave desolate will work on that creep.
SEA its pretty standard to use vaguard buildup into radiance, or at least vit booster into radiance then heart. the urn phase is good if youre hoping to nab some gold from cleaning up fights, but means you will be paper if youre ganked.
The hero is supposed to suck pre-radiance, theres not all that much you can do about it short of playing exceptionally well, so it depends if you want to be an in for a penny in for a pound kind of player, where you farm exceptionally safe and clean up fights when they happen with phase urn, or if you want a build like vangaurd which gives slightly more chance to survive ganks and a larger room for error, but has less potential pay off than phase urn. it really depends on the server, shit is so chaotic on sea that its a lot safer to go with treads vang.
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I see there is a lot of discussion about Vanguard Spectre, which is awesome because I think it's a really good item build(though merlini will talk about how Treads Aquila Urn is always better, which frustrates me but may be something that applies to pro games where Spectre is laned better).
I'm curious about timings, because my lane nearly always gets dived under tower early game as Spectre and so I have no example games of Free farm. Assuming normal regen stout shield starting items
What is typical Radiance timing for Full wand- Power Treads - Vanguard?
For Full Wand - Phase Boots - Vanguard?
For Full Wand - Aquila - Urn?
For Full Wand - Aquila - Morbid Mask(apparently Envy runs this)?
I'm hoping someone at least has a few answers, and they may help guide my itemization decisions. Feel free to also discuss the itemizations.
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On October 16 2015 12:39 Bippzy wrote:
I see there is a lot of discussion about Vanguard Spectre, which is awesome because I think it's a really good item build(though merlini will talk about how Treads Aquila Urn is always better, which frustrates me but may be something that applies to pro games where Spectre is laned better).
I'm curious about timings, because my lane nearly always gets dived under tower early game as Spectre and so I have no example games of Free farm. Assuming normal regen stout shield starting items
What is typical Radiance timing for Full wand- Power Treads - Vanguard?
For Full Wand - Phase Boots - Vanguard?
For Full Wand - Aquila - Urn?
For Full Wand - Aquila - Morbid Mask(apparently Envy runs this)?
I'm hoping someone at least has a few answers, and they may help guide my itemization decisions. Feel free to also discuss the itemizations.
When I go phase/aquila/morbid mask I get radiance about 25 minutes or so. Though usually I go that build cause I have no space and lane and are farming solely jungle creeps.
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The build I've described earlier in the thread, phase aquila yasha radiance gets radiance usually around 24 minutes.
The arteezy build treads wand morbid-mask radiance seems to get radiance around 18-19 minutes, and I think full manta around 23 if I remember correctly. You're pretty durable with his item and skill build, you just lack some chasing potential (can't be as aggressive with your ults).
Free-farm on Spectre isn't really a thing btw unless your offlane and mid both just crushed their lanes and are already carrying. Usually you either get fucked down in lane or you get a really easy lane for the first 8 minutes and then get completely zoned off the map after that because by then they're ready to hunt you to the ends of the earth and beyond. My timings are all based off shitty pubs.
Vanguard, especially with all that other junk seems like the worst of all worlds if you aren't no-shit forced into it by a super fed chasing hero (qop, storm, tinker, maybe a riki or bh, etc). You don't need the defensive skill build arteezy runs with VG, but you don't make the most of a dagger or desolate first max either. Building VG along with treads and wand seems like an inferior version of the arteezy build. If you're just trying to cookie-cutter your way through a VG you may as well just go naked boots VG radiance with a desolate first max for farming purposes. If you aren't losing too many kill opportunities from ults relative to the arteezy build that should probably net you a 17-18 minute radiance, maybe as early as 16-- I dunno, haven't tried it.
I dunno what the best item or skill build is after the patch, but items like madness, urn, and vanguard don't seem any more desirable this patch than last. Casual morbid mask at the most seems like the only purely defensive item you need, if you elect to build defensively at all, outside of specific scenarios described before regarding a reactive vanguard.
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Some stats, not including any spell/skill upgrades, for level 8 spectre. Ordered by gold cost. Max 5 slots taken so you can carry a TP. Intangible (non-direct) bonuses listed beneath. Calculated using devilesk.com's hero calculator. Winners in each category are bolded green, losers are bolded red. Ordered by gold cost. Aimed at around the 4k gold cost.
TREADS ASSUMED ON STRENGTH. DPS IS HIGHER WHEN AGI, MANA AND MANA REGEN HIGHER WHEN INT. TREADS ARE REALLY GOOD.
NO QUELLING OR TP INCLUDED, USUALLY YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A QUELLING TOO
Wand-Cloak-Treads-PMS-Ring of Aquila:
3925 gold - 1797 Physical EHP, 1802 Magical EHP, 472 mana, 2.11 Mana Regen, 97 DPS, 340 Movement speed
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, RoA Aura
Wand-Treads-Vanguard:
4015 gold - 1728 Physical EHP, 1699 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 1.34 ManaRegen, 66 DPS, 340 Movement speed
Intangible: 40 damage block @ 75% chance
Wand-Phase-PMS-Drums: (phase and drums activated)
4105 gold - 1518 Physical EHP, 1365 Magical EHP, 550 mana, 1.7 ManaRegen, 120 DPS, 473 Movement speed
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Drums active for allies (DPS and movement speed modified by drums active)
Wand-Phase-Urn-Ring of Aquila-PMS: (phase activated)
4140 gold - 1702 Physical EHP, 1365 Magical EHP, 472 mana, 2.84 ManaRegen, 107 DPS, 421 Movement speed
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, RoA aura, Urn heal/damage
Wand-Phase-Urn-PMS-Vit booster: (phase activated)
4230 gold - 1712 Physical EHP, 1623 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 2.01 ManaRegen, 84 DPS, 421 Movement speed
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Urn heal/damage
Wand-Phase-PMS-Sange: (phase activated)
4305 gold - 1628 Physical EHP, 1543 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 1.34 ManaRegen, 93 DPS, 421 Movement speed
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Sange maim
Phase-Ring of Aquila-Yasha: (phase activated)
4350 gold - 1428 Physical EHP, 1112 Magical EHP, 420 mana, 1.95 ManaRegen, 127 DPS, 456 Movement speed
Intangible: RoA aura
Arteezy Morbid build (Wand PMS Treads Morbid) not included because lifesteal is waaaaay too intangible, but basically it's 3265 gold and the worst EHP (both physical and magical) out of all of these. But given it's cheaper, that's expected.
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when farming neutrals killing the smaller creep first lowers the overall time right? with desolate damage getting more hits in? Ofc there are times where u wanna finish them off with a spectral dagger and hit the neighbour camp as well.
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On October 16 2015 13:46 Birdie wrote:
Some stats, not including any spell upgrades, for level 8 spectre. Ordered by gold cost. Max 5 slots taken so you can carry a TP. Intangible (non-direct) bonuses listed beneath. Calculated using devilesk.com's hero calculator. Winners in each category are bolded. Ordered by gold cost. Aimed at around the 4k gold cost.
Wand-Cloak-Treads-PMS-Ring of Aquila:
3925 gold - 1797 Physical EHP, 1802 Magical EHP, 472 mana, 97 DPS, 340 Movement speed
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, RoA Aura
Wand-Treads-Vanguard:
4015 gold - 1728 Physical EHP, 1699 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 66 DPS, 340 Movement speed
Intangible: 40 damage block @ 75% chance
Wand-Phase-PMS-Drums:
4105 gold - 1518 Physical EHP, 1365 Magical EHP, 550 mana, 105/120 DPS, 473 Movement speed (phased and drums)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Drums active for allies (DPS and movement speed modified by drums active)
Wand-Phase-Urn-Ring of Aquila-PMS:
4140 gold - 1702 Physical EHP, 1365 Magical EHP, 472 mana, 107 DPS, 421 Movement speed (phased)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, RoA aura, Urn heal/damage
Wand-Phase-Urn-PMS-Vit booster:
4230 gold - 1712 Physical EHP, 1623 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 84 DPS, 421 Movement speed (phased)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Urn heal/damage
Wand-Phase-PMS-Sange:
4305 gold - 1628 Physical EHP, 1543 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 93 DPS, 421 Movement speed (phased)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Sange maim
With what skill build? Makes a big difference.
There's a lot of information that you've either over-simplified or omitted that make this data not that useful.
The two builds I described (which incidentally you discounted both of) are on opposite ends of the build spectrum and accomplish different things-- most of your builds do generally the same thing. You've also discounted lifesteal options altogether.
You've omitted hp regen, desolate damage, dispersion damage, I dunno what dispersion reflect level you're using, mana regen, and dagger damage/ms. If I had aquila or urn I would be using dagger on stacks and aligned camps to make use of the mana regen (and tp to fountain before ulting).
I don't see a point in building both urn and vitality or both urn and aquila. How did you choose these builds?
On October 16 2015 23:14 Shock710 wrote:
when farming neutrals killing the smaller creep first lowers the overall time right? with desolate damage getting more hits in? Ofc there are times where u wanna finish them off with a spectral dagger and hit the neighbour camp as well.
Yes. Don't waste dagger unless you've leveled it and have mana regen.
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On October 17 2015 00:27 Nightmarjoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2015 23:14 Shock710 wrote:
when farming neutrals killing the smaller creep first lowers the overall time right? with desolate damage getting more hits in? Ofc there are times where u wanna finish them off with a spectral dagger and hit the neighbour camp as well. Yes. Don't waste dagger unless you've leveled it and have mana regen.
After radiance, attack the large creep first in camps with 3+ creeps. And if for some reason you max Dispersion with level 1 Desolate, the math sometimes swings in favor of keeping creeps alive to maximize Dispersion damage.
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On October 17 2015 00:27 Nightmarjoo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2015 13:46 Birdie wrote:
Some stats, not including any spell upgrades, for level 8 spectre. Ordered by gold cost. Max 5 slots taken so you can carry a TP. Intangible (non-direct) bonuses listed beneath. Calculated using devilesk.com's hero calculator. Winners in each category are bolded. Ordered by gold cost. Aimed at around the 4k gold cost.
Wand-Cloak-Treads-PMS-Ring of Aquila:
3925 gold - 1797 Physical EHP, 1802 Magical EHP, 472 mana, 97 DPS, 340 Movement speed
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, RoA Aura
Wand-Treads-Vanguard:
4015 gold - 1728 Physical EHP, 1699 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 66 DPS, 340 Movement speed
Intangible: 40 damage block @ 75% chance
Wand-Phase-PMS-Drums:
4105 gold - 1518 Physical EHP, 1365 Magical EHP, 550 mana, 105/120 DPS, 473 Movement speed (phased and drums)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Drums active for allies (DPS and movement speed modified by drums active)
Wand-Phase-Urn-Ring of Aquila-PMS:
4140 gold - 1702 Physical EHP, 1365 Magical EHP, 472 mana, 107 DPS, 421 Movement speed (phased)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, RoA aura, Urn heal/damage
Wand-Phase-Urn-PMS-Vit booster:
4230 gold - 1712 Physical EHP, 1623 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 84 DPS, 421 Movement speed (phased)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Urn heal/damage
Wand-Phase-PMS-Sange:
4305 gold - 1628 Physical EHP, 1543 Magical EHP, 433 mana, 93 DPS, 421 Movement speed (phased)
Intangible: 20 damage block @ 100% chance, Sange maim
With what skill build? Makes a big difference. There's a lot of information that you've either over-simplified or omitted that make this data not that useful. The two builds I described (which incidentally you discounted both of) are on opposite ends of the build spectrum and accomplish different things-- most of your builds do generally the same thing. You've also discounted lifesteal options altogether. You've omitted hp regen, desolate damage, dispersion damage, I dunno what dispersion reflect level you're using, mana regen, and dagger damage/ms. If I had aquila or urn I would be using dagger on stacks and aligned camps to make use of the mana regen (and tp to fountain before ulting). I don't see a point in building both urn and vitality or both urn and aquila. How did you choose these builds? Show nested quote +On October 16 2015 23:14 Shock710 wrote:
when farming neutrals killing the smaller creep first lowers the overall time right? with desolate damage getting more hits in? Ofc there are times where u wanna finish them off with a spectral dagger and hit the neighbour camp as well. Yes. Don't waste dagger unless you've leveled it and have mana regen.
he explains the skill build and how he chose the item build at the top of his post
i think 4411s almost always the best build tho
i like treads urn roa pms oov
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No he just says level 8 with 5 items around 4k. That doesn't indicate skill build and there are other options around 4k he omitted.
I'm not sold on it yet, but I was practicing arteezy's build and variations on it to see if it was worth running, and while I'm not convinced it's better, it certainly is viable. His skill build was 2-2-3-1 at 8. I ran 1-2-4-1 also with the same item build and I at least haven't found something that feels much worse than anything else. I need more games before I can really compare my old build to his or my variations on it. Need to play with skill builds more because of the patch.
Why do you like urn with aquila? I don't understand that item build at all. If you want to chase the enemy, why not grab phase and not have to waste an item slot on oov? Ideally you're spending the least money possible on the most efficient early items to get you to relic. I guess a better question is why you reject alternative builds over that one?
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SoCal8910 Posts
IMO 1 point of dagger is sufficient at lvl 7/8 this patch only if you're getting phase boots. otherwise, you have no way of catching anyone quickly before things can turn on you. I still think the value in desolate outweighs the extra points in dispersion in most scenarios because by the time you really want to fight, you'll be well past lvl 7/8. the patch is still young though and her skills are all looking like they're in a pretty good place so we could wind up seeing a variety of choices become viable.
as for the RoA and urn, I think you're wasting 1k gold that could be something else especially since you're already getting treads too. you're not going to be spamming dagger, so you don't need that much mana regen and you're also picking up treads, so you will have some stats to go alongside the urn..roa is, IMO, unnecessary.
even if you pick up phase, I think that getting an urn AND RoA is pretty unnecessary because you're investing 1k gold into a small item you'll plan on replacing later on. boots, urn, roa, oov, tp, PMS is already 6 slots and you're not picking up a QB or a wand here, too.
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@Nightmarjoo, please read more carefully. I mentioned that "not including spell upgrades". No skill build specified, in other words.
I chose the builds for my own interest, and placed them here in the hopes that others would find them interesting. However, given your apparent interest, I have placed your build in the list. It is the worst in the most categories of any of them, but it does win in DPS. It also has the least intangible benefits. At your request I have also added mana regen.
I discounted lifesteal builds because lifesteal is so vastly intangible compared to other relatively minor buffs such as damage block and auras that there is no meaningful comparison to be made. However, I have placed the RTZ Morbid build in summary form at the bottom of the list.
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On October 17 2015 07:37 Birdie wrote:
@Nightmarjoo, please read more carefully. I mentioned that "not including spell upgrades". No skill build specified, in other words.
I chose the builds for my own interest, and placed them here in the hopes that others would find them interesting. However, given your apparent interest, I have placed your build in the list. It is the worst in the most categories of any of them, but it does win in DPS. It also has the least intangible benefits. At your request I have also added mana regen.
I discounted lifesteal builds because lifesteal is so vastly intangible compared to other relatively minor buffs such as damage block and auras that there is no meaningful comparison to be made. However, I have placed the RTZ Morbid build in summary form at the bottom of the list.
Ok! Sorry if I'm coming across as a dick; I'm not trying to be one; but I was both short on time earlier and I've just been working hard on Spectre for a while now, and I want to make sure the thread doesn't leave behind the stuff I've worked on, both so that if I am right that other players can learn and so that if it turns out I'm wrong that other posters can accurately debate skill/item builds and tactics so that I can learn. And of course I think oversimplification abstracts the data we're using to debate with to such an extent so as to make it not useful, which defeats the point of debating anything at all.
I've been quiet in the thread since arteezy's build was recorded, since I've been trying to figure out how much merit it has, and in what scenarios it's advisable or inadvisable, and I dunno if I have an answer yet. A big part of that comes from the patch too, which had unexpected buffs to a hero I already thought was quite strong.
Can't tell if the dispersion buff means arteezy's build has more merit or if the buff means his build is even less necessary. Can't tell if the desolate buff supports or disfavours his build either-- on the one hand having more levels accelerates farm rate more than ever before, but on the other hand just 1-2 levels go farther than before since it now impacts farm rate.
My experience with arteezy's build leaves me unsure on how much I like it. On the one hand, compared to any other straight radiance rush build it's the most comfortable I've ever used, but like all the other radiance rush builds I've run it still feels uncomfortable as far as fighting goes following the radiance until you have a full manta. When I build the yasha before radiance I feel quite strong once I finish the radiance, but when I rush the radiance I don't feel as strong after completing yasha. Maybe part of it is I usually run the yasha build with phase but the radiance rush with treads, but when I ran treads with my normal build I didn't really feel worse off, however that scenario does have the least sample size for me.
The other side to it is I dunno what the best skill build to run with the item build is: I know arteezy was going 1-1-1 into 2-2-1 into 2-2-4 (though I reject his idiosyncratic stats levels after that point), and as I said earlier I also ran it with 1-1-1 into 1-1-4 into 1-4-4, but I don't really have a consensus on which of those options are best. It could even be that the item build works fine with a more normal skill build, 2-4-1 or 4-2-1 or some shit; I dunno yet, still need more games.
I will say that the build is surprisingly effective at achieving early ult kills in spite of having inferior ms differential and desolate proc damage, though it does trail off a bit into the midgame. It is nice being able to dive towers harder thanks to greater dispersion (and doing more damage on the target thanks to the dispersion change, damage that you didn't really have with last patch's dispersion, especially at level 1).
I need to go back to my old build though to see how it compares this patch-- all my info and numbers are based on last patch for that build.
Now as for the two builds you've added to your list, I think there are more "intangible" effects than you're accounting for. First, the reason I was so anal about inquiring into skill build is I feel the skill build strongly changes how the item build will perform, and changes which items you choose to build or not build.
First, both builds I've been running include quelling blade, which accelerates farm quite a bit, both by improving damage on creeps and by providing tree chopping so that you can more easily move through camps without using Dagger. So while quelling is slot inefficient, it's much much more cost efficient (and simply cheaper) than the slots you're calculating for. Furthermore it seems like the point of your math is to guide which items you choose purely with regard to fighting, but fighting as an activity takes up the smallest percent of your time, so it's important to consider how these items effect your farm rate.
So back to skill builds: how many levels you have in each skill is going to change both how quickly you farm and how well you fight. Discounting "spell effects" greatly skews the data from realistic scenarios. With lower levels in Dagger you're getting farther and farther away from your paper-dps, because you're not sustaining auto attacks on the enemy at your actual attack speed. With higher levels in Desolate you're frequently doing far more damage than your dps calculations suggest. And then obviously differing levels in Dispersion change your EHP, even though you've only provided one value per item build-- with what skill level in Dispersion are those calculated?
So my old build maxes Dagger first with 2 in Desolate. In conjunction with phase and yasha, not only is my paper-dps higher, but my ability to sustain that dps is much greater on average than any other build due to the higher average MS. Since my durability comes mostly from agility-armour, pms damage block, and lvl 1 dispersion my EHP may be lower on paper than these builds that blow money on extra hp, the calculations miss the point that I have increased surviveability even with less innate durability-- the increased MS from Dagger levels and Yasha (and phase active relative to the treads builds) make it much easier to avoid damage by getting out of range or out of vision. So your data only accounts for the damage you are taking, not the damage you aren't taking.
Furthermore another "intangible" benefit of my build is the point of the build itself: that it gives Spectre's team (to potentially include Spectre herself) more gold and experience on average by merit of creating her own space (for her to use to farm and for her team to use to get into a stronger position to give Spectre more space later to catch up with, as is necessary). By discounting surviveability from evading the enemy, discounting surviveability from removing enemies sooner (and thus removing the enemy team's capacity to deal damage to Spectre), and discounting Spectre's capacity to actually execute and maintain the paper-dps, you're really missing everything that makes the build relevant and viable. I didn't construct my build from data, I constructed it from emperical experimentation. Your calculations can't keep track of the things my build does accomplish.
Arteezy's build also has intangible benefits you aren't accounting for. You do point out that it has the cheapest 5 slots of all these builds, but I think erroneously conclude that it also has the worst EHP. Since his build is run with a specific skill build, if your calculations use a Dispersion level under 4 your conclusion is already inaccurate. Furthermore lifesteal's increase to EHP is not intangible. If you can compare the DPS of these builds even knowingly discounting Desolate levels and the build's capacity (on average) to sustain that DPS then you can with the same rate of abstraction from reality calculate (i.e. on a whole, estimate) the EHP lifesteal provides. Plug in lifesteal % with dps, and you can say that in a vacuum the hp gained per second is a permanent increase to EHP. Throw in an average enemy armour value (just grab average neutral creep armour value if you want) and you have something tangible.
Furthermore I think relegating the fact that it's the cheapest efficient 5slot to a footnote is also misleading. The point of the build is to consistently finish Radiance on a specific timing, without wasting time and money on items you don't need, without too greatly compromising her capacity to help her team prior to Radiance completion. This is another reason I asked where you came up with those builds, because I didn't see anything that most of those builds accomplished relative to the builds I've described. The exception is the phase drum build: it's similar to my old build, and that isn't a coincidence. I have since rejected that particular build, but it was the popular ancestor my approach to Spectre and my build evolved from. So what I'm getting at is: your calculations ask "what is the most cost effective set of 5 or fewer items we can build that cost approximately 4k with regard to dps, EHP, and movement speed". I'm not saying your calculations are wrong at answering this question, I'm saying it's the wrong question to ask.
The question the two builds I've considered the most answer is "what's the most effective way to complete a Radiance". Efficiency is a factor, not a component of the question. My build may not require 5 slots. One thing I could not create a conclusive answer for was "is the aquila necessary?". I can easily answer what the aquila is useful for, but I have to recognize that just because it's useful doesn't make it necessary. So are all of the items you listed at least situationally useful? Yes, but some are much more likely to be useful than others. Are all of the items you listed even situationally necessary? No. I'm not saying you can't make use of an Urn, Sange, Cloak, Vitality Booster, or Vanguard, and regarding the last item have pointed out uncommon (but plausible) scenarios I think VG is absolutely actually necessary in, but on average none of those items are essential.
Is a Yasha essential? No, but in a build that tries to effectively obtain a Radiance in an adverse scenario where you are likely to have teammates unable to create the space you need to just afk-farm a Radiance or in adverse scenarios where being able to fight or effectively flee from the enemy is necessary I find it outcompetes its alternatives, especially since it, unlike most of the items you have chosen to use, is a part of Spectre's overall item progression (as a component of Manta).
So if I ult into a fight out of my cozy jungle and fail to kill someone, leaving them at sub 150 hp, I don't come out of the fight or game thinking "damn, if only I had an Urn with at least one charge, I could've killed them". Instead I conclude that perhaps I didn't execute the fight properly, or perhaps I shouldn't have ulted and joined the fight at all, perhaps I chose the wrong target altogether, or perhaps I simply stayed in the fight chasing a target I couldn't hope to kill and wasted time that could've been spent heading back to a farm source or farming creeps at or near my new location. So of course if an enemy with less than 150 hp is running away from me and neither me nor my teammates can secure that kill, having an Urn with a charge is going to actually secure a kill and thus gain xp and gold, but likely the only reason you pursued that kill that hard was because you had the Urn at all, not because you chase all heroes that hard.
So finding the item useful does not mean that item was a good choice, and certainly does not mean it was the best choice. Using math to say that an Urn was worth the investment because it both explicitly saved your life (you survived with hp equal to less than the EHP the +6 str the Urn provided or thanks to the increased EHP a well-timed Urn charge provided) and killed an enemy is misleading. Even if you can point out that the gold obtained from obtaining the kill in addition to the gold you failed to lose from dying (if you had nothing to quickbuy because you're working on Radiance, or even if you "lost" no gold because you bought TPs you didn't need, you've still "lost" gold towards Radiance-- it would have been delayed by that amount of gold) exceeded the cost of the Urn itself, it still does not mean the Urn was the best use of that gold. This is because in the scenario where you didn't have that Urn, you should have made decisions based on what you did have-- so you wouldn't have wasted time chasing a kill you could only secure with Urn and you wouldn't have placed yourself in such a disadvantage position such that the raw hp or urn healing was necessary to stay alive. Therefore in that scenario you would say that not buying the Urn was better because you now completed Radiance 875 gold sooner. Of course that also is not quite accurate-- the justification can be used either way. What matters and should guide your item choice is what items are necessary on average (or per each certain scenario, either based on specific scenario-based reactions or based off average circumstances in particular themes of scenarios).
So look again at both builds I've described. Arteezy's build is a bare-bones strategy for rushing Radiance. Discount PMS because it's omnipresent in builds that don't involve a Vanguard. Discount Treads because it has about the same cost as Phase, and one or the other are omnipresent in every build. Discount Wand because it's literally in every build you've listed (except mine, incidentally). So we're left with 2 item slots: quelling, literally the cheapest possible slot, and morbid mask, which is cheaper than every other option we've discussed except for Cloak (which is only situationally ever relevant) and Urn (which is barely cheaper, and situationally greatly loses value (if you can't gain charges, or if you're fucking one of your supports by either preventing them from building one or by making their Urn considerably less useful). The morbid mask is always useful because you will always be hitting things. Perhaps there'll be a fight where you only used ult and Dagger, such that the morbid mask didn't change your efficacy in the fight, but it's plausible that the higher % hp you've retained from fighting is what encouraged you to participate in that fight, so you can still justify its construction in a brief scenario where you in fact did not hit something.
The dynamic this build is running is combining a Dispersion first max damage reflect in conjunction with PMS damage block in conjunction with stats hp and armour in conjunction with lifesteal, for the least possible cost. Items that give you a greater flat increase in hp are not inherently superior. Barring Vanguard and Urn (only if you have excess charges you can afford to use to heal yourself), none of the other options provide any kind of hp regen. This means that even the Vitality Booster option, which fairly cost effectively provides you with a nice flat hp bonus, is not necessarily providing more durability or surviveability relative to the cheaper lifesteal option, especially if you purchase it while running a skill build using fewer points in Dispersion. Even if you use for example the build which included both aquila and urn, you're providing a combination of hp, armour, and situational hp sustain for inferior slot efficiency and an increased cost. There's another cost though, by not being able to carry both TP and Quelling you're losing out on the very powerful and cost efficient farm acceleration quelling provides. Is the trade worth it? With this hit to slot and cost efficiency are you getting a good trade from having the mana regen to make greater (more frequent) use of a Dagger first max? By then running the skill build that has the most synergy with your item build, is your EHP even actually higher with the Urn hp and Aquila armour provided you're missing three levels in Dispersion (at level 8 after branching from 2-2-1)? You can do the math if you want, but I strongly suspect it's an inferior trade on average (the difference being opportunity cost in arteezy's build from lacking Urn nukes).
On average I suspect Arteezy's build obtains a Radiance significantly quicker than any of the builds you originally listed, disproportionate to the simple difference in cost. So then the question is are your builds able to create a significant amount of greater farming space disproportionate to its relative increase in cost (and therefore flat increase in time necessary to complete Radiance). I don't necessarily have that answer for you, but my empirical data obtained from playing Spectre at a decent skill level suggests they do not. However more importantly, your calculations do not help you find that answer, which is why I maintain your consistent oversimplifications abstract too much from finding useful conclusions.
For myself, I'm trying to empirically answer the question of whether or not the increased gold cost of my build relative to arteezy's build is worth the increase in kill potential and space-making capacity it provides. I also don't have that answer, but it is one of my current projects. I can at least say with confidence that having tried the builds you provided above (or variations of) that I strongly believe my build is superior to all of those-- that indeed the gold cost increase (although since my item choices are either more slot efficient or more progression-efficient (I don't need to sell the Yasha slot until like 70 minutes in the game when I'm working on a perfect 6slot) that my build is actually less cost inefficient than your math suggests, since I'm selling fewer things and selling them later in the game) is more than worth the relative space-creating and fight-capacity potential the build confers.
Furthermore I'm also working on both establishing whether or not phase boots are necessary in my build (since treads are the stronger boot the longer the game goes, both as far as providing flat dps and from the collective benefits tread-swapping provide) and whether or not aquila is necessary (it certainly has strong synergy with my fight tempo, overall farming and fighting tactics, and with the Dagger first max skill build, but omitting the Aquila doesn't actually change any of those things, since my build uses fountain TPs prior to ults, so the only difference other than the flat combat stats the item provides is in the total number of Daggers I can use in the jungle, it's however many fewer I need to maintain 75 mana at all times when my ult is up or nearing coming off cd-- so I don't know if it's worth the 1k investment).
So I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do think I have answers for (or at least better questions than) your data. If there's some information I've omitted that makes something I'm taking for objective truth not make sense, it's probably something I've written earlier in this thread, but I can clarify any points I have improperly supported or elaborated on.
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In terms of RTZ's build, I'm sure the Morbid Mask is primarily so that he can sustain his HP while farming, far more so than gaining HP while he fights. And in terms of the statistics I provided, I consider the number of hits you pull off in a fight (and hence EHP gained from lifesteal) to be an unknowable number, which is why I didn't include any lifesteal builds in detail. It's certainly not the most optimal fighting item to be getting, and I HIGHLY doubt that's why RTZ gets it.
Because you seem particularly worried about skill build, I can redo the table but with a particular skill build. Which skill build would you have me do? 1-4-2-1 perhaps? I was using 0-0-0-0 previously. In terms of objective data, I don't think there is any value in recalculating DPS because the increased DPS from desolate and dispersion is dependent on a variety of in-game factors. But I can re-calculate the EHP. It is worth mentioning that increased dispersion is percent-based, and as such the winners in each category for EHP should not change. Same for if it were possibly to calculate DPS with desolate. This is why I didn't bother including skill-build; assuming every item build used the same skill build, there would be no change in the relative position of each item build. Only the total numbers would change, not the winner in each category.
In terms of Movement speed translating into more survivability, that is also intangible as it is dependent on in-game factors. I can give the raw movement speed numbers but it is for each person to decide themselves whether they value movement speed, DPS, or EHP most (and gold cost).
As noted in my post, it is assumed that you will be carrying a quelling blade over a TP scroll and using ultimate to travel into fights. As quelling blade is a farming item (and more or less ubiquitous), I didn't bother factoring a second creep-DPS into the equation. That is easily calculated by hand with the given DPS numbers.
I should note that you seem to be looking for an "optimal build". While I am not trying to argue any particular point with my data, I would say that you should consider every game what is necessary for winning that game, rather than always trying to use your "optimal build". If a game requires you to get Vanguard, Treads, Wand, Vit Booster because there is so much fighting going on that it is impossible for you to farm a radiance without dying, then do that. If you have absolute free farm, skip tank items and go straight for radiance! My post merely points out gold cost and what you achieve with your gold; it doesn't make any decisions for you. It doesn't factor in the likelihood of an item being sold later, nor the amount you are fighting, nor the intangible item benefits, nor teammates or any other uncontrollable factors. It is just the hard numbers.
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EPT
