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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On December 03 2014 10:13 TheYango wrote: Manta and Purge don't follow the same dispel rules, so I would be careful lumping them together, which you seem to be doing calling them "normal dispel". If the wiki isn't accurate, then what's the answer to the question? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Among the things that are supposed to be dispelled by Manta but aren't are Naga's net and all of Venomancer's skills. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
If Valve hasnt stated it as a bug (link to bug thread?) it seems very reasonable to believe its intended. I dont know how many times I've read or heard that something is "supposed to" work in one way for no other reason than that it worked like that in Dota1. And Dota2 is not supposed to be Dota1. Either way, being able to Manta out of 2000 ticking poison damage on you would be completely ridiculous. The hero would be so worthless. Intended or not, it better stay un-manta-able. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Venomancer was totally a fine hero in DotA 1 even with Manta the way it was. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
it will give you a list of what you can manta out of, eul's out of, purge with diffusal, etc. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On December 04 2014 00:14 Comeh wrote: Man, it would be so nice if I didn't have to build a BKB against veno...not that anyone picks him in my games. what is so special about veno in your statement? | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On December 04 2014 00:16 ahswtini wrote: what is so special about veno in your statement? Probably this: On December 03 2014 12:25 TheYango wrote: Among the things that are supposed to be dispelled by Manta but aren't are Naga's net and all of Venomancer's skills. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2014 00:59 Comeh wrote: Naga's net is really weird that it isn't dispelled by Manta. Makes 0 sense. It's supposed to, and is on the bug list. The problem being that Manta's buff removal is supposed to encompass both the Physical and Magical dispel classes (Naga's Ensnare is a Physical buff and is therefore removed by Ghost Scepter). However, DotA 2 doesn't properly distinguish dispel classes, so interactions with anything that doesn't fall under the Magical dispel class (i.e. stuff that should be dispellable, but not by Purge) has super inconsistent interactions with the other sources of Dispel. Naga net being an example. Skills that were fully converted from Physical to Magical (i.e. Ghost Scepter no longer dodging Heat Seeking Missile or Echo Slam) are intended changes. However, anything that is Physical typed and removable by Physical dispels should be removed by ALL such dispels. This isn't a matter of "DotA 2 should be the same as DotA 1", it's a matter of interactions in the game being logically consistent with one another. If you don't want the Physical dispel class to exist because it's too complicated or whatever, then take out all Physical dispels from the game. Otherwise, they should behave in a logically consistent manner with one another. (As a side note, Decrepify completely lost its Physical dispel functionality in DotA 2 and only serves as slow/magic amp/physical damage immunity. It's on the bug list, but has been there for ages and probably will stay that way. Personally, I think it's stupid because making the skill functionally different from Ethereal form doesn't actually make any sense, but the debuffs also stack in DotA 2 when they shouldn't, so who the fuck knows.) | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Edit: ninjad  | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2014 01:50 BluemoonSC wrote: so does that mean that ensnares like treant's can be dispelled with a ghost scepter? Treant's ulti is based on Entangle, and not Ensnare. Entangle-based spells (the commonly referenced one being CM's Frostbite) are typically magical debuffs. The other notable Ensnares are the Dark Troll Warlord net (which does not properly get dispelled by Ghost Scepter in DotA 2 but DOES get removed by Manta--confusing as fuck) and Meepo's Earthbind (which likewise doesn't get properly dispelled by Ghost Scepter but does get removed by Manta). On December 04 2014 02:00 Comeh wrote: I wonder why they chose to not having physical / magical debuffs. Perhaps it was supposed to make things less complicated, but the opposite effect clearly is going on. I don't think they made a specific choice not to. They probably took it on a spell-by-spell basis rather than trying to follow the overarching rules. It probably ended up the way it is just like how we don't have the distinction between base/bonus stat gains anymore or why all the triggered heal/damage prevention interactions are so broken/inconsistent. By the time they realized that it screws with a shit-ton of things in game, the current system was already so integrated into the game that changing it would be a major systemic overhaul. | ||
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hooahah
3752 Posts
Went Treads -> Vlads (for farming and lane sustain) -> Diffusal (for teamfighting, not sure how effective it was) -> BKB (was up against ET/SK/Ogre/Luna/AA), I thought the BKB would allow me to manfight but I just exploded. I did no damage, my illusions didn't live for more than a split second and even with BKB I couldn't do anything. I'm guessing ET's aura goes through BKB, but what else could I have done? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
bkb sux on an illusion hero u just tell them who u are wihtout achieving anything cuz if ur illusions die u do no damage anyway buy heart, use doppelganger to dodge bullshit, you can spam lance from outside the fight for a while if u die too easily. Post in the PL thread too if u have PL specific questions. PS: PL literally can't lose if they don't have an earthshaker-style hero, he's WILDLY overpowered. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
On December 04 2014 03:07 hooahah wrote: I'm guessing ET's aura goes through BKB, but what else could I have done? sn0_man and yango answered all the other stuff..diffusal is so broken on this hero and heart makes your illusions strong. but yes ET's aura does go through bkb. you ideally need a vlad's and ac carrier on your team. but don't get it on your PL, like sn0_man said. it seems good in theory, but its better picked up on someone else. | ||
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