• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:25
CET 02:25
KST 10:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery Rollback Netcode in Brood War Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Stratus: Battle for the sky now on steam Early acc Deus Ex 3!?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Playlenda
Playlendapro
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10561 users

Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 970

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 968 969 970 971 972 1254 Next
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
October 09 2014 14:28 GMT
#19381
On October 09 2014 23:25 ChunderBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2014 23:16 hooahah wrote:
I have no idea how to lane against Clinkz. He just harasses me off the lane and I can't do shit to him because he has his speed + invis. Case in point, played as Jugg. PMS appearently doesn't do much, support can't zone him out because Clinkz just right clicks him to death before I can do anything. Bad matchup or is there something to do that I'm missing?

hit him instead of focusing on cs in the first 1-3 levels until he runs out of regen. jug isnt that good but he can do well against clinkz. heroes like pa/am straight off win against him

Can't he just kite you, and take minimal damage from creeps because he can orb walk you?
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
hooahah
Profile Joined October 2011
3752 Posts
October 09 2014 14:29 GMT
#19382
On October 09 2014 23:25 ChunderBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2014 23:16 hooahah wrote:
I have no idea how to lane against Clinkz. He just harasses me off the lane and I can't do shit to him because he has his speed + invis. Case in point, played as Jugg. PMS appearently doesn't do much, support can't zone him out because Clinkz just right clicks him to death before I can do anything. Bad matchup or is there something to do that I'm missing?

hit him instead of focusing on cs in the first 1-3 levels until he runs out of regen. jug isnt that good but he can do well against clinkz. heroes like pa/am straight off win against him


that's so simple, thank you!
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 09 2014 14:32 GMT
#19383
On October 09 2014 23:28 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2014 23:25 ChunderBoy wrote:
On October 09 2014 23:16 hooahah wrote:
I have no idea how to lane against Clinkz. He just harasses me off the lane and I can't do shit to him because he has his speed + invis. Case in point, played as Jugg. PMS appearently doesn't do much, support can't zone him out because Clinkz just right clicks him to death before I can do anything. Bad matchup or is there something to do that I'm missing?

hit him instead of focusing on cs in the first 1-3 levels until he runs out of regen. jug isnt that good but he can do well against clinkz. heroes like pa/am straight off win against him

Can't he just kite you, and take minimal damage from creeps because he can orb walk you?

1) learn 2 creep aggro
2) ur melee, buy a stout and creeps are really not that painful
3) clinkz has the shittiest base model to offset searing arrows + invis. His animation sux, his move speed sux, his hp sux, his mana sux, etc. If u make him invis then not only is that a decent cooldown where he can't play aggressively, but it's also a lot of his very constrained mana pool.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
October 09 2014 14:46 GMT
#19384
On October 09 2014 23:32 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2014 23:28 ahswtini wrote:
On October 09 2014 23:25 ChunderBoy wrote:
On October 09 2014 23:16 hooahah wrote:
I have no idea how to lane against Clinkz. He just harasses me off the lane and I can't do shit to him because he has his speed + invis. Case in point, played as Jugg. PMS appearently doesn't do much, support can't zone him out because Clinkz just right clicks him to death before I can do anything. Bad matchup or is there something to do that I'm missing?

hit him instead of focusing on cs in the first 1-3 levels until he runs out of regen. jug isnt that good but he can do well against clinkz. heroes like pa/am straight off win against him

Can't he just kite you, and take minimal damage from creeps because he can orb walk you?

1) learn 2 creep aggro
2) ur melee, buy a stout and creeps are really not that painful
3) clinkz has the shittiest base model to offset searing arrows + invis. His animation sux, his move speed sux, his hp sux, his mana sux, etc. If u make him invis then not only is that a decent cooldown where he can't play aggressively, but it's also a lot of his very constrained mana pool.

like this guy says.
1) creep aggroing is by far the most important aspect of laning in ANY lane, i only see 5k+ players do it constantly and i only see 6k+ players do it right. (by right i mean they aggro a creep back to themselves just when it is the right time to last hit them)
2) never ever get a qb from base. you can always go tango/salve/stout/branches from fountain...
or you can get tango/salve/3branches and then at lvl 1 in ur lane you can buy stout/qb from sideshop depending on wut the lane is. fast pms is needed against clinkz
3)+1 to this point. clinkz has such a weak chasis/body or w.e (awful attack windup/ms/hp/mana) exploit this and drive him out of lane before he gets to lvl 3 or lvl 5 for stronger searing arrows
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
HighTimeDotA
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada1412 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-09 15:24:52
October 09 2014 15:24 GMT
#19385
why is beesa blue wtf. what is this special treatment.

my question: how does one become blue.
rtz is like the Bieber of dota, true Canadian treasure.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 09 2014 15:28 GMT
#19386
http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-strategy/466589-welcome-blue-posters-in-strategy
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-09 16:27:42
October 09 2014 16:27 GMT
#19387
On October 10 2014 00:24 HighTimeDotA wrote:
why is beesa blue wtf. what is this special treatment.

my question: how does one become blue.

be good at dota.
theres a reason theres only like 3 of them.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Mafe
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany5966 Posts
October 09 2014 20:11 GMT
#19388
How do bloodstone and necro ult interact? Is the additional respawn time also reduced by bloodstone charges, or do you always need at least 30 seconds to respawn if kill by necro ult?
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-10 00:38:43
October 10 2014 00:01 GMT
#19389
i dont understand the benefits of a core venomancer. can someone explain this to me?

every game (pro or pub) that i see a core venomancer, it never ends well.

EDIT - looks like aghs is a pretty good item. but a pipe + bkb would be pretty solid to purchase, no?
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Mataza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany5364 Posts
October 10 2014 00:40 GMT
#19390
On October 10 2014 09:01 BluemoonSC wrote:
i dont understand the benefits of a core venomancer. can someone explain this to me?

every game (pro or pub) that i see a core venomancer, it never ends well.

Why would anyone play venomancer as a core?
I can think of several other support heroes that make better cores than veno. No wait, actually I can't think of a support hero that makes a worse core than veno. Maybe techies, maiden or dazzle are worse as core heroes?

I would like to know as well why anyone would play veno as core. It's rubbish if you ask me.
If nobody hates you, you´re doing something wrong. However someone hating you doesn´t make you right
xxpack09
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2160 Posts
October 10 2014 00:47 GMT
#19391
On October 10 2014 09:40 Mataza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2014 09:01 BluemoonSC wrote:
i dont understand the benefits of a core venomancer. can someone explain this to me?

every game (pro or pub) that i see a core venomancer, it never ends well.

Why would anyone play venomancer as a core?
I can think of several other support heroes that make better cores than veno. No wait, actually I can't think of a support hero that makes a worse core than veno. Maybe techies, maiden or dazzle are worse as core heroes?

I would like to know as well why anyone would play veno as core. It's rubbish if you ask me.


Actually, if you look at veno in progames, when he's picked, it's almost ALWAYS as a core (in recent patches). It's cuz early levels on veno are very good for early deathball-style pushes and his ultimate packs a tremendous punch if you get it leveled up and aghs-upgraded quickly.
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
October 10 2014 00:51 GMT
#19392
On October 10 2014 09:01 BluemoonSC wrote:
i dont understand the benefits of a core venomancer. can someone explain this to me?

every game (pro or pub) that i see a core venomancer, it never ends well.

EDIT - looks like aghs is a pretty good item. but a pipe + bkb would be pretty solid to purchase, no?

venomancer is a really strong laner and can stand his ground against most heroes that face him in a 1v1. team basically use him for early pushing strats(vg at ti4) or space creation for the other cores (team tinker games)

for example rotk played it safelane to crush some of the most common offlaners (doom,cent,furion), securing an early mek and destroying the t1. after that he switches to another lane and does the same thing. this adds alot of pressure and the enemy team has to react to the constant threat of a towers being pushed. but while doing this veno although a very fragile hero is somewhat safe thanks to the vision you get through placing plague wards.

later on you still have the map control and vision you get through the plague wards and a ult that deals a ton of damage
FTD
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
October 10 2014 09:32 GMT
#19393
On October 09 2014 23:28 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2014 23:25 ChunderBoy wrote:
On October 09 2014 23:16 hooahah wrote:
I have no idea how to lane against Clinkz. He just harasses me off the lane and I can't do shit to him because he has his speed + invis. Case in point, played as Jugg. PMS appearently doesn't do much, support can't zone him out because Clinkz just right clicks him to death before I can do anything. Bad matchup or is there something to do that I'm missing?

hit him instead of focusing on cs in the first 1-3 levels until he runs out of regen. jug isnt that good but he can do well against clinkz. heroes like pa/am straight off win against him

Can't he just kite you, and take minimal damage from creeps because he can orb walk you?

It's been a really long time since I watched any beesa replays but main thing I learned from those replays is to focus on shutting down the offlane as a carry first few levels. You miss out on cs and it might suck having low cs at 4min but you ensure easy lane after that.

Worst thing is to just stand there, get harassed and compete for lasthits.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Quochobao
Profile Joined October 2010
United States350 Posts
October 10 2014 17:27 GMT
#19394
If the Dota map is square, why don't the Dire and Radiant creep meet up at the corners of the square in top and bot lane?

I'm asking this question because I'm trying to figure out a way to look at my own creep and then estimate the current position of enemies creep based on that (for ganking purpose -- don't want to run through their creep when I gank from behind). However, their positions don't seem to be symmetric.
Best or nothing.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 10 2014 17:31 GMT
#19395
They used to meet closer to the corners, then icefrog decided that that made the lanes too unbalanced so he changed the speed of the creeps between their spawn and the tier 2 tower in the sidelanes (slower for offlane, faster for safelane) for the first 7:30 to change where the creeps meet.

You'll figure it out if you study it for a while.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12185 Posts
October 10 2014 19:46 GMT
#19396
Easiest way is to just check your own creeps on other side of map.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-11 01:27:10
October 11 2014 01:26 GMT
#19397
On October 11 2014 02:27 Quochobao wrote:
If the Dota map is square, why don't the Dire and Radiant creep meet up at the corners of the square in top and bot lane?

I'm asking this question because I'm trying to figure out a way to look at my own creep and then estimate the current position of enemies creep based on that (for ganking purpose -- don't want to run through their creep when I gank from behind). However, their positions don't seem to be symmetric.

If you try blocking creeps in offlane/safelane youll notice that for the first half of their path before the two waves meet, offlane creeps will be much slower and safelane creeps will be much faster. Only for first 7 minutes, though. For first 7 minutes, lane pull needs to be done at #:12ish, afterwards #:16ish.
:)
Quochobao
Profile Joined October 2010
United States350 Posts
October 11 2014 03:36 GMT
#19398
On October 11 2014 10:26 synapse wrote:

If you try blocking creeps in offlane/safelane youll notice that for the first half of their path before the two waves meet, offlane creeps will be much slower and safelane creeps will be much faster. Only for first 7 minutes, though. For first 7 minutes, lane pull needs to be done at #:12ish, afterwards #:16ish.


Does that mean after 7 minutes, I can totally guess enemies' creep position by looking at exactly where my creeps are?

An unrelated question: How to stack neutrals as melee and take minimal damage? Do I walk in really close then back, or right click on neutral then back?
Best or nothing.
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
October 11 2014 04:40 GMT
#19399
On October 11 2014 12:36 Quochobao wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2014 10:26 synapse wrote:

If you try blocking creeps in offlane/safelane youll notice that for the first half of their path before the two waves meet, offlane creeps will be much slower and safelane creeps will be much faster. Only for first 7 minutes, though. For first 7 minutes, lane pull needs to be done at #:12ish, afterwards #:16ish.


Does that mean after 7 minutes, I can totally guess enemies' creep position by looking at exactly where my creeps are?

An unrelated question: How to stack neutrals as melee and take minimal damage? Do I walk in really close then back, or right click on neutral then back?



You just take a lot of damage. If you have boots and a stout shield you wont, but if you're trying to pull the banshee at minute 2, you're going to want to eat a tango
In Mushi we trust
Ler
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Germany543 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-11 11:35:24
October 11 2014 11:29 GMT
#19400
On October 11 2014 02:27 Quochobao wrote:
If the Dota map is square, why don't the Dire and Radiant creep meet up at the corners of the square in top and bot lane?

I'm asking this question because I'm trying to figure out a way to look at my own creep and then estimate the current position of enemies creep based on that (for ganking purpose -- don't want to run through their creep when I gank from behind). However, their positions don't seem to be symmetric.


Some Advice:
+ Move into a Lobby - Let bots play versus each other and spectate the natural creep equilibrium.
+ Get yourself 3 Positions on each side / lane and write down the timings when the creeps pass these positions.
+ Leave it next to you while playing.

Repeat this after the 7:30 mark to also get the changed timings.

In a week you will know exact timings and wont run / reveal yourself while ganking.


On October 10 2014 00:24 HighTimeDotA wrote:
why is beesa blue wtf. what is this special treatment.

my question: how does one become blue.


One does not simply become blue ;D
Twitter: @Ler_GG | Facebook: lergg | youtube: lerlolgg | Twitch.tv/gg_nore | #ArtOfSupport
Prev 1 968 969 970 971 972 1254 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
ISSL: Premier - Quarterfinals
CranKy Ducklings211
LiquipediaDiscussion
The PiG Daily
06:20
Best Games of SC
MaxPax vs Clem
SHIN vs TBD
herO vs TBD
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1800
Artosis 515
League of Legends
Doublelift5826
JimRising 1157
Other Games
gofns16901
summit1g10624
Liquid`RaSZi1819
singsing1705
XaKoH 396
C9.Mang0233
Maynarde132
NeuroSwarm65
ViBE31
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick666
BasetradeTV154
Counter-Strike
PGL61
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 53
• davetesta20
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3852
• Jankos3149
• Scarra1196
Other Games
• Shiphtur315
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
21h 35m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 8h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
1d 23h
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
IPSL
5 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
6 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-06
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.