EPTThere's similar questions for techies mines (which afaik are independent of each other and you can have a rank1 and rank 2 mine in the same spot, they'll do different damage values) and a bunch of other "delayed damage" situations.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 966
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
Fleetfeet
Canada2723 Posts
There's similar questions for techies mines (which afaik are independent of each other and you can have a rank1 and rank 2 mine in the same spot, they'll do different damage values) and a bunch of other "delayed damage" situations. | ||
|
FHDH
United States7023 Posts
That's what you'd expect but I wonder. Also there is the question of how that affects reverberation effects such as Earth Spirit's or Echo Slam. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 05 2014 08:00 Fleetfeet wrote: I thought the urn charge question was related to duration. I.E. if you have an urn charge ticking and are bloodraged afterwards, does it amplify damage of further urn ticks? It shouldn't but DotA 2 does some really stupid shit with regard to over-time damage effects updating damage based on changes to the spell effect while the effect is applied (some skills are bugged such that if you skill them up during their effect, the effect will rank up according to the new rank of the skill, while others properly preserve the skill rank when cast--again this is not consistent across heroes and spells). | ||
|
Mecha King Ghidorah
United States595 Posts
| ||
Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
| ||
|
Yurie
12088 Posts
| ||
|
nojok
France15846 Posts
| ||
|
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
They both give the same aura of mana regen and armor. (Which imo is the main reason to get it) The combination of the wraithband with Basilius only gives an extra +3 agi. However it's probably an item that you will end up selling pretty soon, so shouldnt the investment in the regen/armor be as minimal as possible? Ofc there are definitely heros that benefit from those stats (im not say all heros shouldnt get aquila) but on some heros i feel like the stats are less important and the wraith band money (as small as it may seem) could be better spent towards a core item. I also understand that lets say if a hero starts off with a wraith band for laning reasons and then finishes into aquila thats also fine. but to have the basilius and then go back for the wraith band i sometimes find inefficient and i almost never see the non-finished aqualia (Basilius) on agi heros. Are the stats overvalued. Most the time u end up selling the aquila pretty early to make room for wand, tp, boot, 1 core item, possible bottle, part of next item (the 2 parts of ur 1st item). eg: on someone like veno, (sure u can say the stats are nice, some extra hp and mana) but 485 gold is a significant amount towards your point booster. If u went mid with a wraith band and later made aquila im not gonna say anything thats perfectly fine, or if ur an illusion hero like naga fine stats are nice and u need that ring anyway. | ||
|
Fleetfeet
Canada2723 Posts
If you're picking up a bottle (unlikely as a farming core) or have a support that could grab the basi, then I could see avoiding the basi and aquila altogether, but otherwise it's a damn efficient item that offers you a likely needed source of mana regen in the same slot as cost efficient damage. I also don't see any scenarios where you're selling your aquila before your 2nd/3rd item anyways, in which case it has been well worth its expense and its gentle regen has outlived its usefulness. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
In Aquila's case, it's stats provided are primarily DPS stats, so on a hero like Morphling, Weaver or Slark, who might spend a long time not buying a damage item (Perseverance-first Linkens on Morph or Weaver, Blink Dagger on Slark), the Aquila early DPS stats can even make a lot of value while farming before it get's sold. | ||
|
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
The stats is obviously better than no stats, if ur tp-ing to a different lane to join a fight thats started out and ur there to give the extra edge/clean up the kills the stats are gonna help. (i guess its more often these days than the passive farmer ) even still its a really situational thing because once u leave the lane you definitely need to get something done other than reassure your teammates hey im here sometimes its better to not join fights till you have a specific item bkb, linkens are the more notable ones. You could apply pressure, secure a couple 8cs per wave. If you're coming to a fight and the wraith bands stats save your life maybe u shouldnt have come, if you came to a fight where the wraith bands stats secure the kill thats kinda super rare and also maybe in most cases u shouldnt have come as well because thats a fine line of kill gold <vs> farm gold. (There are going to be times where the line isnt so thin and in general the stats do benefit u in the fight especially if ur getting multiple hits in with as weaver) So even tho the stats are providing primarily dps on how much actual use are those stats going to get if your primarily farming creeps with last hits, (even if u were pushing simply the basilius ring's armor bonus, slight mana regen to use a wave clear would be enough, the dps from the stats wouldnt be as big of a pushing factor in comparison) The stats ofc could be lifesaving hp/armor for you to get away, as ur bounded to get ganked (smoke or good timing from ur opponents) tho most the time they're probably going to have the damage to overkill you by a fair amount. Farming the jungle with the stats of ofc is an increase, tho its no raw ms, or as simply agi bonus. would it ever be an increase over 485 gold in say 25-30 mins. I know aquila has its uses and imo its situational but i cant recall someone not finishing it, people who have the basilius first then pick up the wraith band no matter what (for agi heros that is) so is there a consideration to not pick it up or it this just all in my head,is its value worth it in basically 99-100% of the time. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2014 10:39 Shock710 wrote: If you're on a farming core like morphling, weaver (or in a case where u are playing less of a teamfight role and more just split pushing, or just controlling the lane infront of ur tower, jungling) wouldnt the stats in that scenario be less efficient if ur ideally not coming to a fight till u pick up a core item. The thing is, at 3-4 minutes when you have the gold for it, it's not always clear how teamfight-focused the game is going to be yet. The game might need you to splitpush, it might need you to be in every fight. You can't really tell yet without knowing how the game is going to play out for a few minutes more. Committing to the components for another item could be awkward if the game becomes unsuitable for it, and banking the gold impacts your laning ability against your lane opponent. Aquila is a fairly noncommittal item choice at that point where it's quite good for fighting, and not bad for farming. Usually it's not all that easy to predict the progression of the game from the 3rd or 4th minute, so maintaining some flexibility at that point before you can definitively even say who's winning their lanes is preferable. | ||
|
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
| ||
|
Fleetfeet
Canada2723 Posts
485 gold for 9 agi, 3int/str and 3 damage is a really cost effective purchase for agi, and if you've already got basi doesn't even cost an item slot. Barring exceptional circumstances where you really need that 485 gold for something more important, I don't know why you're debating the merits of upgrading a basilius to an aquila so hard. I can see fewer situations where you'd want to stop after basi in favour of something else as much as forgoing the basilius entirely in the first place. | ||
|
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
 it was just some random musing as to upgrading basi to aquila nothing important | ||
|
Fleetfeet
Canada2723 Posts
| ||
|
miicah
Australia2470 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ee1yuF3.jpg) What is this bullshit? EDIT: Fuck off Dota said I abandoned that match. Don't you have to be disconnected for 5 minutes to abandon? I was DC for max 3mins maybe. What a load of shit. | ||
|
icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
| ||
|
miicah
Australia2470 Posts
| ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The system has to prevent people leaving then coming back a minute before the throne drops just to avoid getting an abandon. If you set it at, for example, 10 minutes, that would realistically happen in a lot of cases. | ||
| ||
