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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 952

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
September 08 2014 09:49 GMT
#19021
Probably because it doesn't scale as well as 2 bf + big crit
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
dreamseller
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Australia914 Posts
September 08 2014 11:49 GMT
#19022
any way to limit steam upload speed but keep unlimited download?
PGtour admin
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
September 08 2014 13:43 GMT
#19023
How viable is PMS on non-agility heros if you expect that you get harassed a lot, on heros like lifestealer, Sven, centaur etc.?
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-08 14:24:30
September 08 2014 14:22 GMT
#19024
It's buyable but most melee strength heroes get more survivability out of a ring of protection + stout than out of a PMS. Plus the RoP builds into basi or tranquils or whatever. Plus cheaper. Unfortunately it's not purchaseable at the side shop.

I'd only buy PMS on high-armor melees (ogre, spirit breaker, etc) who are getting BADLY harassed in lane yet have side shop access while their mid is bottle crowing. Or some similar combination of factors
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-08 15:54:13
September 08 2014 15:52 GMT
#19025
On September 08 2014 23:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'd only buy PMS on high-armor melees (ogre, spirit breaker, etc) who are getting BADLY harassed in lane yet have side shop access while their mid is bottle crowing. Or some similar combination of factors

You don't do it when you're behind from harassment, you do it when you're ahead and you're trying to be a bitch to the enemy carry and waiting for a courier trip would relieve some of the pressure on something like Axe offlane vs. a weak dual lane.

It's a really awful buy when you're behind, because the only way in which it's good is the immediate strength of the 100% block chance vs. heroes in lane, which you only only are going to get good value out of if you're playing really aggressively and trying to snowball your lane hard. If you're behind and forced to play like a pussy, the block chance gets less practical value against harassment than buying regen.
Moderator
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
September 08 2014 16:06 GMT
#19026
do crit multipliers take effect after damage reduction from krakens shell or before?
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
September 08 2014 16:09 GMT
#19027
Crits affect how much dmg u do.

So if I crit at 2x on my 100 dmg attack, I deal 200 dmg to tide, minus kraken for (10/20/30/40), then minus armor.

However, if I have anchor smash -dmg debuff, then I crit at 2x my lowered damage (losing 60% base damage, assuming I have no pure dmg items I'd crit him for 40x2=80, minus kraken = 40, then minus armor).
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
[APGT]Tex
Profile Joined November 2013
22 Posts
September 08 2014 16:25 GMT
#19028
Hi all, about Death prophet in captain mode how you deal agaist her? What do you pick/ban? And how do you execute the game?? I don't know how to win agaist this bulldozer hero
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-08 16:46:42
September 08 2014 16:45 GMT
#19029
On September 09 2014 00:52 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2014 23:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'd only buy PMS on high-armor melees (ogre, spirit breaker, etc) who are getting BADLY harassed in lane yet have side shop access while their mid is bottle crowing. Or some similar combination of factors

You don't do it when you're behind from harassment, you do it when you're ahead and you're trying to be a bitch to the enemy carry and waiting for a courier trip would relieve some of the pressure on something like Axe offlane vs. a weak dual lane.

It's a really awful buy when you're behind, because the only way in which it's good is the immediate strength of the 100% block chance vs. heroes in lane, which you only only are going to get good value out of if you're playing really aggressively and trying to snowball your lane hard. If you're behind and forced to play like a pussy, the block chance gets less practical value against harassment than buying regen.


What about an even lane?
Also from my experience with the item it really boosts your early game survivability. Like lets say you are offlane void, the difference between stout and pms is huge, ganks that would kill you 100% of the time with a stout are no big deal with a pms and you walk away with 200hp. The 6 agility are nice but that isn't the main reason you buy it, or is it?
It is confusing that it is only "normal" on agility heros. Is there some math or something i am missing? A pms blocks 20 dmg flat, a stout blocks ~12 as it only blocks 60% of the time, 3 armor from aquila gives around 15% damage reduction on a hero with 0 armor, most heros early have around 50-60 damage so that is about 8-10 damage blocked and it is way more expensive than a pms or a stout. I'm aware that armor scales better and aquila has other benefits as stats and the aura too.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-08 16:55:58
September 08 2014 16:48 GMT
#19030
? you'd literally have to take 40 hero autoattacks for that to be the case lol

also we aren't talking aquila we are talking casual rop.

If PMS 100% blocked creep hits then it'd be worth it way more often on non-traditional buyers. It'd also be too good
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
September 08 2014 17:22 GMT
#19031
thx didnt know order of operations there
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-08 17:57:39
September 08 2014 17:51 GMT
#19032
On September 09 2014 01:45 idonthinksobro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2014 00:52 TheYango wrote:
On September 08 2014 23:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'd only buy PMS on high-armor melees (ogre, spirit breaker, etc) who are getting BADLY harassed in lane yet have side shop access while their mid is bottle crowing. Or some similar combination of factors

You don't do it when you're behind from harassment, you do it when you're ahead and you're trying to be a bitch to the enemy carry and waiting for a courier trip would relieve some of the pressure on something like Axe offlane vs. a weak dual lane.

It's a really awful buy when you're behind, because the only way in which it's good is the immediate strength of the 100% block chance vs. heroes in lane, which you only only are going to get good value out of if you're playing really aggressively and trying to snowball your lane hard. If you're behind and forced to play like a pussy, the block chance gets less practical value against harassment than buying regen.


What about an even lane?
Also from my experience with the item it really boosts your early game survivability. Like lets say you are offlane void, the difference between stout and pms is huge, ganks that would kill you 100% of the time with a stout are no big deal with a pms and you walk away with 200hp. The 6 agility are nice but that isn't the main reason you buy it, or is it?
It is confusing that it is only "normal" on agility heros. Is there some math or something i am missing? A pms blocks 20 dmg flat, a stout blocks ~12 as it only blocks 60% of the time, 3 armor from aquila gives around 15% damage reduction on a hero with 0 armor, most heros early have around 50-60 damage so that is about 8-10 damage blocked and it is way more expensive than a pms or a stout. I'm aware that armor scales better and aquila has other benefits as stats and the aura too.

Of course on Agility heroes it's fundamentally more efficient, because damage is a fundamentally useful basic laning stat. Losing 6 damage because you're not an Agi hero drastically affects its usefulness in lane.

The item is useful, but you're investing 300 gold into it. That's most of the way to Boots or a Bracer and 100 gold more than a Magic Stick. All of these things also have very cost-efficient boosts to your strength in lane (though not all of them are quantifiable purely in terms of survivability).

If you're solely analyzing the survivability in an all-in gank, Magic Stick charges, Strength, and Movement Speed are going to be the most efficient way to survive. For someone who's not getting damage off a PMS, you have to be consistently and repeatedly putting yourself in situations where you take autoattack damage (which for an offlaner involves being pretty damn aggressive) for the damage block to really be worth it.
Moderator
Rocket-Bear
Profile Joined July 2014
3070 Posts
September 08 2014 21:36 GMT
#19033
On September 09 2014 01:25 [APGT]Tex wrote:
Hi all, about Death prophet in captain mode how you deal agaist her? What do you pick/ban? And how do you execute the game?? I don't know how to win agaist this bulldozer hero

Well you could ban her if you struggle with her.

But I really think the biggest counter is to hit really early, and hit hard. DP is really bad at catching up for the most part. Heavily relies on a good start, into towers into win I think. So shutting her down early, can make you able to kill her a lot easier during early pushes. Which ends up saving towers and winning fights so you should be in a good position from there.

Guess that's the general advice for all snowball-reliant mid heroes with very low mobility early game. But it works, and it's effective.
Favorite players: Gh and Zai
Joni_
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany355 Posts
September 08 2014 22:07 GMT
#19034
On September 09 2014 06:36 Rocket-Bear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2014 01:25 [APGT]Tex wrote:
Hi all, about Death prophet in captain mode how you deal agaist her? What do you pick/ban? And how do you execute the game?? I don't know how to win agaist this bulldozer hero

Well you could ban her if you struggle with her.

But I really think the biggest counter is to hit really early, and hit hard. DP is really bad at catching up for the most part. Heavily relies on a good start, into towers into win I think. So shutting her down early, can make you able to kill her a lot easier during early pushes. Which ends up saving towers and winning fights so you should be in a good position from there.

Guess that's the general advice for all snowball-reliant mid heroes with very low mobility early game. But it works, and it's effective.

Also I feel that stacking armor is quite effective (getting a hero that makes use of assault, Lich, Sven, Dazzle, aquila and so on....).
Spacecoast8908
Profile Joined May 2014
United States42 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-08 22:18:32
September 08 2014 22:18 GMT
#19035
Why do a lot of people take stats over multiple stats of sprout on Furion?
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
September 08 2014 22:34 GMT
#19036
Well one reason is that even only 1 level of sprout is a pretty big duration, the scaling isn't that good tbh. So it's really a one point wonder.

The other reason is that generally throughout the midgame when you'd have the levels to put points into sprout people still carry tangos/QB so you're limited by that, as in extra levels don't help. When you're about to start putting points into sprout again people get rid of those two items just due to slot inefficiency, so it works out nicely.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Lavitage2
Profile Joined June 2012
198 Posts
September 09 2014 00:04 GMT
#19037
If elder titan buys a gem and sends his spirit around to scout does the spirit see invis?
njt7
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden769 Posts
September 09 2014 00:18 GMT
#19038
On September 09 2014 07:18 Spacecoast8908 wrote:
Why do a lot of people take stats over multiple stats of sprout on Furion?


The main reason is because AdmiralBulldog does it. Other reasons is that more levels of sprout doesnt help you farm faster while stats does and the actual reason is probably that it helps bulldog be more effective in teamfights as he usually takes pretty aggressive teleport locations and the extra tankiness gained from stats is more valuable then an extra second of a soft disable.
"All the casters who flamed me ever for anything."
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
September 09 2014 00:44 GMT
#19039
On September 09 2014 09:04 Lavitage2 wrote:
If elder titan buys a gem and sends his spirit around to scout does the spirit see invis?


No, not that I'm aware of. The spirit is hardcoded to carry the natural order aura, but I don't believe it actually carries any others.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
September 09 2014 01:59 GMT
#19040
On September 09 2014 09:18 njt7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2014 07:18 Spacecoast8908 wrote:
Why do a lot of people take stats over multiple stats of sprout on Furion?


The main reason is because AdmiralBulldog does it. Other reasons is that more levels of sprout doesnt help you farm faster while stats does and the actual reason is probably that it helps bulldog be more effective in teamfights as he usually takes pretty aggressive teleport locations and the extra tankiness gained from stats is more valuable then an extra second of a soft disable.

keeping sprout lvl 1 was a thing way before bulldog was on the scene...
:)
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