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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 954

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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Surprise.820
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1276 Posts
September 10 2014 12:37 GMT
#19061
Leveling sprout or not over stats is subjective as Hell guys.
Erase and improve
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 14:31:17
September 10 2014 14:03 GMT
#19062
Thought just occurred to me after the Medallion comments last page.

Medallion is used by Lycan to solo Rosh early. This is well known. Also, Roshan has spell immunity that you have to pop before you can (for example) hit him with Shackle or Hex or whatever.

So...if Medallion goes through that...what is its interaction with Linkens? Does it go through that without popping it too?



Edit: Apparently I can't spell today.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
September 10 2014 14:05 GMT
#19063
On September 10 2014 23:03 -Celestial- wrote:
Thought just occurred to me after the Medallion comments last page.

Medallion is used by Lycan to solo Rosh early. This is will known. Also, Roshan has spell immunity that you have to pop before you can (for example) hit him with Shackle or Hex or whatever.

So...if Medallion goes through that...what is its interaction with Linkens? Does it go through that without popping it too?

Urn and medalion do not proc linkens (rosh spell immunity is same mechanic), it is that way so linkens can't be countered with a 1k item
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
hrough
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany212 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 14:08:18
September 10 2014 14:07 GMT
#19064
On September 10 2014 23:03 -Celestial- wrote:
Thought just occurred to me after the Medallion comments last page.

Medallion is used by Lycan to solo Rosh early. This is will known. Also, Roshan has spell immunity that you have to pop before you can (for example) hit him with Shackle or Hex or whatever.

So...if Medallion goes through that...what is its interaction with Linkens? Does it go through that without popping it too?


You got it wrong: Medalion doesn't go through the spell shield, it just has a lower cooldown than the spell shield.

*edit: wtf? it does go through??
Make it idiot proof and someone is going to invent a better idiot...
Rocket-Bear
Profile Joined July 2014
3070 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 14:28:25
September 10 2014 14:21 GMT
#19065
Yeah medallion goes through Linkens, doesn't break it.

I like the necronomicon archer's spell to break linkens, think it's underused. Also a pretty safe way of doing it.

Edit: Necro level 1 still has the archer spell. So it cost 2700, also has long range because he runs fast and you can yolo a bit with it. Then upgrading it to level 3 for the damage / mana drain + more importantly the true sight. Dewarding with necro 3 is so nice.
Favorite players: Gh and Zai
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 14:51:34
September 10 2014 14:24 GMT
#19066
The cheapest item that procs linkens is force staff IIRC. Then basically euls, dagon, and atos in that order. Atos definitely has the range advantage though.

Literally nobody would buy linkens if you could medallion it lol. It's a balance thing.

E: Technically Maelstrom and Necro 1 both indirectly can proc linkens for 2700g as well, as can a helm of the dominator'd creep for 1850g.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
September 10 2014 14:35 GMT
#19067
It used to, urn as well. People still bought it, but it was obviously a big issue.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 10 2014 14:46 GMT
#19068
On September 10 2014 23:35 SKC wrote:
It used to, urn as well. People still bought it, but it was obviously a big issue.

The only heroes that bought Linken's when this was the case were those heroes that absolutely had to for the regen/stats anyway.
Moderator
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
September 10 2014 14:50 GMT
#19069
Linken's shield antimage was the best thing ever
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
September 10 2014 15:19 GMT
#19070
Well, yes, but it wasnt a case of literally noone buying the item. It didnt make the item completelly useless. Even now people rarely get it outside of the heroes that absolutelly need the regen/stats.
Surprise.820
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1276 Posts
September 10 2014 15:46 GMT
#19071
Is that more to do with less BKB piercing heroes and heroes like Void whom you not gonna block much from or Skywrath where you simply just want a BKB/heart and deal with something like Batrider with brute force?
Erase and improve
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 16:29:37
September 10 2014 16:29 GMT
#19072
Linkens is not like BKB. You get a BKB if you want to prevent disables/magical damage, even if getting it sucks, like rushing it for QoP/Storm. You get it for the effect, pure and simple. If the stats help you, like for a Sven, good, you may be more likely to get it, but its ussually not the main reason.

You dont get Linkens for the block, outside of extreme lategame scenarios or something very specific. You get it because you need stats and mana regen. The block is a bonus, and it helps that some heroes that need them also like being harder to gank. But heroes that dont need the stats hardly ever should get it, or you end up with the Linkens first Miranas that were popular some time ago for some reason. The stats are the key part of the item, and thats why it was still useful even when the block was far more vulnerable.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
September 10 2014 16:33 GMT
#19073
Linkens first mirana was to let u farm with starfall
no it wasn't good

Linkens kinda needs both the regen and the block parts of it to be good. having the block part of it be always useless is really rough.

I mean sure it was still purchased back in the day but it was pretty awful.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 16:48:45
September 10 2014 16:45 GMT
#19074
On September 11 2014 00:19 SKC wrote:
Well, yes, but it wasnt a case of literally noone buying the item. It didnt make the item completelly useless. Even now people rarely get it outside of the heroes that absolutelly need the regen/stats.

I mean it was all of 3 versions where Medallion existed and Linken's popped on it (6.70 Medallion added, 6.73 Linken's changed), which was less than a year of DotA.

None of the "must-Linken" kind of heroes got played in that year except Morphling (by 6.72 the hero basically phased out) and none of the heroes that situationally got Linken's wanted it because it wasn't reliable vs. Urn+Medallion. Even Morphling play had a lot more movement toward BKB-first kind of play/etc.

So ya, noone was buying the item because the heroes that had to buy it weren't being played, lol.
Moderator
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-10 16:51:04
September 10 2014 16:50 GMT
#19075
On September 11 2014 01:45 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 11 2014 00:19 SKC wrote:
Well, yes, but it wasnt a case of literally noone buying the item. It didnt make the item completelly useless. Even now people rarely get it outside of the heroes that absolutelly need the regen/stats.

I mean it was all of 3 versions where Medallion existed and Linken's popped on it (6.70 Medallion added, 6.73 Linken's changed), which was less than a year of DotA.

None of the "must-Linken" kind of heroes got played in that year really and none of the heroes that situationally got Linken's wanted it because it wasn't reliable vs. Urn+Medallion.

So ya, noone was buying the item because the heroes that had to buy it weren't being played, lol.

Well, Urn was added in 6.65 and the issue was fairly similar, even though it needs charges. He also just mentioned one of them. Either way if the heroes that got Linkens were being played, you would probally see linkens being picked up. It was more a metagame thing than the item being completelly useless. It was certainly being used in pubs, even by decent players. Im not exactly good at matching patch versions to popular strats, but I guess that in the AM era but before Morphling started being picked up.
njt7
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden769 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-11 08:12:38
September 11 2014 07:31 GMT
#19076
On September 10 2014 15:53 Unleashing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2014 08:28 njt7 wrote:
On September 10 2014 00:41 Andre wrote:
On September 09 2014 11:51 njt7 wrote:
On September 09 2014 10:59 synapse wrote:
On September 09 2014 09:18 njt7 wrote:
On September 09 2014 07:18 Spacecoast8908 wrote:
Why do a lot of people take stats over multiple stats of sprout on Furion?


The main reason is because AdmiralBulldog does it. Other reasons is that more levels of sprout doesnt help you farm faster while stats does and the actual reason is probably that it helps bulldog be more effective in teamfights as he usually takes pretty aggressive teleport locations and the extra tankiness gained from stats is more valuable then an extra second of a soft disable.

keeping sprout lvl 1 was a thing way before bulldog was on the scene...


You didnt write a simple question but I will give you a simple answer anyway. Of course every build has been used before they gain public traction. My answer to the original question if you depersonalize is that most people use the builds that has been popularized by a professional player without really analyzing why they build their heroes the way they do.

Except it's common knowledge not to level sprout for like 5 years in dota now.


Then tell me why they maxed sprout in the grand final of The International 2011 and 2012 but didnt 2013?
Afaik furion was never a popular competetive pick in dota 1. I dont really see this 5 year period that you are talking about. 2 years seem more reasonable to me.

Want me to go find TI2 replays where stats are gotten over maxing sprout? Because i can do that, lmao.
It has NOTHING to do with bulldog and has been done for ages.


Sure why not. lmao
"All the casters who flamed me ever for anything."
BobMcJohnson
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
France2916 Posts
September 11 2014 11:05 GMT
#19077
Does Sheepstick disable Elder Titan's aura?
Romanes eunt domus
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
September 11 2014 12:55 GMT
#19078
On September 11 2014 20:05 BobMcJohnson wrote:
Does Sheepstick disable Elder Titan's aura?

I believe so, but not the spirit aura
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
September 11 2014 15:37 GMT
#19079
Did I miss anything or is it totally normal to build Vanguard then MKB on Viper? I've encountered that build twice in a row now.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-11 15:39:18
September 11 2014 15:38 GMT
#19080
it was totally normal 4 years ago
now its horrible but you know, old habits die hard.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
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