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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 955

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
September 11 2014 15:47 GMT
#19081
Thanks. I knew something was up. I don't get to see Viper much in pro games and when I do, he's usually played solo mid then goes Mek into DPS items (at least that how SingSing built Viper).
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
September 11 2014 16:17 GMT
#19082
On September 12 2014 00:47 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Thanks. I knew something was up. I don't get to see Viper much in pro games and when I do, he's usually played solo mid then goes Mek into DPS items (at least that how SingSing built Viper).


what "dps" items did he build? A normal Viperbuild nowadays is aquila, treads, mek, aghs, bkb.
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
September 11 2014 16:39 GMT
#19083
On September 12 2014 01:17 idonthinksobro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 12 2014 00:47 SilverSkyLark wrote:
Thanks. I knew something was up. I don't get to see Viper much in pro games and when I do, he's usually played solo mid then goes Mek into DPS items (at least that how SingSing built Viper).


what "dps" items did he build? A normal Viperbuild nowadays is aquila, treads, mek, aghs, bkb.

hm can't recall. I might have it mixed up with a different game.

so vipers are now built as tanks?
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Kirsed
Profile Joined May 2013
9380 Posts
September 11 2014 16:39 GMT
#19084
When is arcane bolt damage calculated?
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
September 11 2014 16:42 GMT
#19085
More "utility", which necessitates a lot of incidental survivability since your strength gain isn't huge.

Mek is your first "big" item since its not only the most cost-efficient survivability but it also helps your team fight which is obviously viper's strong suit. Next is usually aghs as it keeps scaling your HP pool, gives you more mana which can be a bit of an issue, and puts your strongest ability on a very short cooldown. After that you branch out based on the game, either more tank with a bkb, more dps with something like mjollnir, etc.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Unleashing
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark14978 Posts
September 11 2014 17:15 GMT
#19086
On September 11 2014 16:31 njt7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2014 15:53 Unleashing wrote:
On September 10 2014 08:28 njt7 wrote:
On September 10 2014 00:41 Andre wrote:
On September 09 2014 11:51 njt7 wrote:
On September 09 2014 10:59 synapse wrote:
On September 09 2014 09:18 njt7 wrote:
On September 09 2014 07:18 Spacecoast8908 wrote:
Why do a lot of people take stats over multiple stats of sprout on Furion?


The main reason is because AdmiralBulldog does it. Other reasons is that more levels of sprout doesnt help you farm faster while stats does and the actual reason is probably that it helps bulldog be more effective in teamfights as he usually takes pretty aggressive teleport locations and the extra tankiness gained from stats is more valuable then an extra second of a soft disable.

keeping sprout lvl 1 was a thing way before bulldog was on the scene...


You didnt write a simple question but I will give you a simple answer anyway. Of course every build has been used before they gain public traction. My answer to the original question if you depersonalize is that most people use the builds that has been popularized by a professional player without really analyzing why they build their heroes the way they do.

Except it's common knowledge not to level sprout for like 5 years in dota now.


Then tell me why they maxed sprout in the grand final of The International 2011 and 2012 but didnt 2013?
Afaik furion was never a popular competetive pick in dota 1. I dont really see this 5 year period that you are talking about. 2 years seem more reasonable to me.

Want me to go find TI2 replays where stats are gotten over maxing sprout? Because i can do that, lmao.
It has NOTHING to do with bulldog and has been done for ages.

Sure why not. lmao

http://cdn.dota2.com/apps/dota2/international2012_static/games/1_p0_v1.html
http://cdn.dota2.com/apps/dota2/international2012_static/games/6_p0_v1.html

Didn't bother look through prelims, just checked some of the main event games.
In TI2 the prophets that did max sprout and the prophets that didn't varied a lot with the players, xiao8 seemed to favor maxing sprout for example.
Both builds have been used since dota1 and it wasn't something that magically appeared or got popular because of bulldog.
It was used in the beta ever since the beta began as far as dota2 goes, and as you might know monkey see monkey do. People see others use the build and begin using it. I've alternated between both builds depending on what enemy i'm against and prophet is my most played hero. Against heroes like lifestealer it can be amazing because even his rage does nothing to get him out if he doesn't have a quelling blade or a tango.
However against a CK it does very little unless his reality rift is off cooldown.

Of course it's situational, almost everything outside of core things are situational in dota.
From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that this one is in the bag!
njt7
Profile Joined August 2012
Sweden769 Posts
September 11 2014 21:08 GMT
#19087
Winter had 2 points in sprout when he lost. Whatever that doesnt really matter. I think you feel some kind of animosity towards the way I answered a question directed towards your hero or something. The bulldog thing was mostly meant as fun trivia not to hurt anyones feelings.
I never claimed he invented anything but precisely as you say monkey see monkey do. To say that the most successful player on a specific hero that adamantly uses a very specific unconventional build didnt have anything to do with how said hero is played. Well that could be seen as a false assumption.

When I say that he is the most successful player on furion I am referring to his stats. He has the most competitive wins on that hero of any pro player that has been logged by datdota.com.

I am not trying to bait you man I think this is silly but to say that professional players dont have any influence at all in how heroes are played by the masses is wrong. Big parts of this very site is even dedicated to watching them play.
"All the casters who flamed me ever for anything."
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-11 23:57:31
September 11 2014 23:57 GMT
#19088
Aside from global abilities, what are the spells with the longest cast range at their highest level? Hookshot is at top, Venge Swap, then Dazzle's Weave?
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
September 12 2014 00:01 GMT
#19089
I think Rubick's Spell Steal is up there if you include his Aghs upgrade.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8916 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-12 00:09:42
September 12 2014 00:09 GMT
#19090
assassinate
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-12 03:34:17
September 12 2014 03:32 GMT
#19091
Invoker's Tornado with max Wex has longer range than Assassinate and Hookshot. I think it's the longest range non-global ability.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
September 12 2014 08:34 GMT
#19092
Yes, max wex tornado goes 3200 units, barely outranging assassinate and hookshot both at 3000.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-12 13:19:43
September 12 2014 13:19 GMT
#19093
Pretty sure the top 5 is:
Tornado (3200)
Hookshot/Assassinate (3000)
Weave (2000)
Glimpse (1800)

Unless I'm missing something.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
September 12 2014 13:36 GMT
#19094
arrow
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-12 13:41:53
September 12 2014 13:36 GMT
#19095
heatseeking missile
potm arrow
psioinic trap
boulder smash
illuminate
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8916 Posts
September 12 2014 15:25 GMT
#19096
On September 12 2014 22:36 Kupon3ss wrote:
heatseeking missile
potm arrow
psioinic trap
boulder smash
illuminate

only 1 of those spells gets longer range the more points you put into the spell
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-12 15:56:52
September 12 2014 15:49 GMT
#19097
Compiling everything so far,
Tornado (3200)
Assassinate, Hookshot, Sacred Arrow (3000)
Illuminate, Psionic Trap, Weave (2000)


And some misses:
Heat Seeking Missile has no range but 2500 radius.
Boulder Smash has 150 range but a separate 'slam distance' of up to 2000.
zdfgucker
Profile Joined August 2011
China594 Posts
September 12 2014 19:26 GMT
#19098
How do negative numbers work in dota2?

E.g. say you got 60 damage and razor removes 120 damage, leaving you with -60 damage. Will you heal creeps or deal 0 damage? Same with armour, do -5 armour work the same as +5 armour, just the other way around (i.e. amplifying damage, rather than reducing)?
fLDm
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
September 12 2014 19:27 GMT
#19099
negative damage is treated as 0

negative armor has it's own formula. look it up on liquipedia and/or the wiki.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
winterymint
Profile Joined October 2013
United States36 Posts
September 12 2014 19:43 GMT
#19100
Does bristle armor apply if necroulted him on his back
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