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Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 936

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
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TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 07 2014 14:42 GMT
#18701
The 40% that lose with Necro are the players who think he's a support.
Moderator
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
August 07 2014 14:50 GMT
#18702
Heroes that don't die, have higher winrates. Top 4:
Necrophos 59.18%
Omniknight 57.86%
Abaddon 56.38%
Wraith King 55.75%
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
HollowLord
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3862 Posts
August 07 2014 15:02 GMT
#18703
On August 07 2014 23:50 Laserist wrote:
Heroes that don't die, have higher winrates. Top 4:
Necrophos 59.18%
Omniknight 57.86%
Abaddon 56.38%
Wraith King 55.75%


Pretty much. Not dying = winning games, period. Really, the scoreboard in Dota 2 isn't about which team has the most kills, it's about which team has the least deaths. Not dying is significantly more important than getting a kill, which is something that a lot of pub players don't take into consideration.

You were 13/8/6 as Antimage? Well, you died 8 times dipshit, I don't care if you were "KDA Positive".
dota 2 stream #noskill #feed #noob twitch.tv/dmcredgrave
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
August 07 2014 15:42 GMT
#18704
On August 07 2014 23:42 TheYango wrote:
The 40% that lose with Necro are the players who think he's a support.

he can't offlane, that means in pubs you need to play him mid or safelane? I don't think people is ganna concede those lanes for a necro, especially 90% of the games people don't pick support to begin with.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
August 07 2014 16:00 GMT
#18705
On August 08 2014 00:42 rei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 23:42 TheYango wrote:
The 40% that lose with Necro are the players who think he's a support.

he can't offlane, that means in pubs you need to play him mid or safelane? I don't think people is ganna concede those lanes for a necro, especially 90% of the games people don't pick support to begin with.


I don't know what bracket you are but you can offlane(even solo) in my bracket, trench obviously.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-07 17:55:00
August 07 2014 16:11 GMT
#18706
On August 08 2014 00:02 HollowLord wrote:
You were 13/8/6 as Antimage? Well, you died 8 times dipshit, I don't care if you were "KDA Positive".


The best is the progression of someone who trades solo kills for deaths with assists and goes like 13/8/0 to his allies' 0-3 deaths then blames his teammates when the vastly higher level enemy team starts rolling them. People seem to fail to realize that 1 kill for 1 kill + 1 assist is a net loss, not an even trade (barring trading lower positions for higher positions in a favorable way).
Logo
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-07 18:35:34
August 07 2014 18:17 GMT
#18707
On August 08 2014 00:02 HollowLord wrote:
Not dying = winning games, period.


The stats don't bear this out. The top 3 least dying heroes are:
Phantom Lancer (4.88 deaths/game, 50% win rate)
Morphling (5.73 deaths/game, 43% win rate)
Medusa (5.78 deaths/game, 49% win rate)

Looking further down the list, top picks Abaddon, Wraith King and Omniknight are in the top 10, as well as the underplayed but solid Brewmaster and 6 heroes with <50% win rates. Also, Anti-mage is at position #11 with one of the worst win rates in the game.

Clearly, there is more to winning than not dying. And from this small sample, it appears to be mostly a distinction between supports and carries. A support hero with a really low death rate is winning a resource war. A carry hero with a really low death rate isn't having enough game impact.

Now compare that list to, say, assists per game, where 9 of the top 10 have >50% win rates and Necrophos is #3. Or hero healing per minute, where 8 of the top 10 have >50% win rates and Necrophos is again #3, with Omniknight, Wraith King and Abaddon also top 10.
HighTimeDotA
Profile Joined May 2014
Canada1412 Posts
August 07 2014 20:24 GMT
#18708
teamfighter + hard to kill + straightforward heroes have high pub winrates. orge magi imba.
rtz is like the Bieber of dota, true Canadian treasure.
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
August 07 2014 20:26 GMT
#18709
On August 08 2014 03:17 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2014 00:02 HollowLord wrote:
Not dying = winning games, period.


The stats don't bear this out. The top 3 least dying heroes are:
Phantom Lancer (4.88 deaths/game, 50% win rate)
Morphling (5.73 deaths/game, 43% win rate)
Medusa (5.78 deaths/game, 49% win rate)

Looking further down the list, top picks Abaddon, Wraith King and Omniknight are in the top 10, as well as the underplayed but solid Brewmaster and 6 heroes with <50% win rates. Also, Anti-mage is at position #11 with one of the worst win rates in the game.

Clearly, there is more to winning than not dying. And from this small sample, it appears to be mostly a distinction between supports and carries. A support hero with a really low death rate is winning a resource war. A carry hero with a really low death rate isn't having enough game impact.

Now compare that list to, say, assists per game, where 9 of the top 10 have >50% win rates and Necrophos is #3. Or hero healing per minute, where 8 of the top 10 have >50% win rates and Necrophos is again #3, with Omniknight, Wraith King and Abaddon also top 10.


I think you missed a point. It is not the stats but the hero gives the utility to stay longer and inflict more damage/heal more. So statistically you can contribute more which also indicates the assist number etc..
Abaddon , WK, necro , omni these guys can stay in battle field longer than others even though they die in the end, the contribution is much more than the others. Consider average dota skill level where picks and lanes are not that important as top tiers games. throwing a bunch of spells or able to run from a bad situation is a huge plus.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-07 22:44:37
August 07 2014 22:39 GMT
#18710
Necro/Omni/Aba/WK might very well be the four heroes you have to be most careful taking fights against. You really have to judge the situation before going on either of them. Heroes with escapes, say PL, probably dies less but they dont provoke people into taking bad fights as the other four. Where the PL runs away and the fight is over, the Aba or the Necro fights back and win. And considering how good people are at making judgements when to take fights, their win rates doesnt seem to surprising.

Obviously thats not all of it (no one thing is all of it), but it certainly plays a part.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-08 07:41:36
August 08 2014 07:36 GMT
#18711
Nvm.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Phantasmiq
Profile Joined January 2013
Czech Republic32 Posts
August 08 2014 10:00 GMT
#18712
What are the most popular carries as of now? By carries I mean safelane carries, not other cores, such as mid. Thanks
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
August 08 2014 10:11 GMT
#18713
why does it have to be popular? just curious
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
August 08 2014 10:20 GMT
#18714
On August 07 2014 16:46 ahw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2014 11:54 obesechicken13 wrote:
On August 07 2014 11:48 rei wrote:
why Necrophos have 60% win rate in pubs?

Combination of everything strong about him. Just read his skills/stats.

People like to single out stuff like "oh his ult is so op because it prevents buyback and doesn't afraid of any hp" or "his passive is like infinite sustain and mana" or "his Q is like a free mek so mek is the best item on him." Sometimes the extra death timer on his ult probably helps his team fight with a numbers advantage.

But if we didn't have dotabuff he'd probably be considered weak in pubs because he has no escape and is squishy.

when someone plays necro, everyone else on the team understands that they just gotta run at towers and force fights.

it's not this, but hte fact that when no one on the team understands whats going on what people tend tod o is run at towers and force fights (except ricers)
posting on liquid sites in current year
Phantasmiq
Profile Joined January 2013
Czech Republic32 Posts
August 08 2014 10:37 GMT
#18715
On August 08 2014 19:11 icystorage wrote:
why does it have to be popular? just curious

By popular I meant carries that are picked the most, because they fit the meta perfectly. So for example not AM, because meta is oriented more towards teamfights and finishing early, but AM needs a lot of farm to do anything.
Laserist
Profile Joined September 2011
Turkey4269 Posts
August 08 2014 11:06 GMT
#18716
On August 08 2014 19:00 Phantasmiq wrote:
What are the most popular carries as of now? By carries I mean safelane carries, not other cores, such as mid. Thanks


Void.
“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-08 15:17:34
August 08 2014 15:16 GMT
#18717
It's hard to figure out who the most popular safe-lane carries are because the current meta has a lot of drafts with flexible lanes. Wraith King, Mirana, Void, Razor and Viper are all popular carries in pro play, but all of them get run both as safe-lane farmer and as some other position - offlane for Void, roaming support for Wraith King and Mirana, and mid for Viper and Razor.
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
August 08 2014 18:36 GMT
#18718
On August 09 2014 00:16 Buckyman wrote:
It's hard to figure out who the most popular safe-lane carries are because the current meta has a lot of drafts with flexible lanes. Wraith King, Mirana, Void, Razor and Viper are all popular carries in pro play, but all of them get run both as safe-lane farmer and as some other position - offlane for Void, roaming support for Wraith King and Mirana, and mid for Viper and Razor.

roaming wraith king?0_o
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
August 08 2014 18:40 GMT
#18719
yeah u just smoke around stunning people and basically wait for passive gold to get blink (can also hit jungle creeps after skilling 1 point in aura at 4). Stay mostly off the map so that u can pretend like ur ganking and once u get blink ur job is to literally start fights by feeding in the middle of as many of them as possible for a 75% slow.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-08-08 20:32:02
August 08 2014 20:31 GMT
#18720
On August 09 2014 03:40 Sn0_Man wrote:
yeah u just smoke around stunning people and basically wait for passive gold to get blink (can also hit jungle creeps after skilling 1 point in aura at 4). Stay mostly off the map so that u can pretend like ur ganking and once u get blink ur job is to literally start fights by feeding in the middle of as many of them as possible for a 75% slow.


Not to mention that sweet sweet ranged lifesteal that stacks with unique attack modifiers.
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