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On July 31 2014 11:51 ReligionLOL wrote:
i need help with anti pushing heros. for instance say (in cm) our team has .... aa, void, & voker. their team has lycan, shadow shaman, and razor. what should my text 2 picks be to counter their pushing draft thus far (and bans as well).
It depends on how your team stylistically wants to deal with the push. There are many options available.
EG likes to get really greedy on the map, stack a bunch of teamfight in their draft, and dare you to push highground. If you want to do that, you might consider something like picking earthshaker/tide/enigma/WK.
Newbee dealt with VG by grabbing an extremely potent early-game and forcing early-game fights before the 5-man comes online. The idea is that you win the lanes and start pushing towers yourself as opposed to the enemy team. AA+1 support works great (rubick, earthshaker, lion, enchantress, etc), followed by an aggressive offlaner or safelaner (brewmaster/batrider/mirana/clock/centuar/etc) would be the idea here.
Or you can draft KotL like Ti3 alliance. Greed the map, have a stronger late-game, and dare the enemy team to push into illumnate spam. Slow down the enemy with spam and pick heroes that can trade well (wisp/prophet/etc). Probably not a viable picks in the draft you proposed though.
As for bans... first off, banning 2 of lycan/razor/shadowshaman first phase is probably a good idea. Letting the enemy get all 3 in 3 picks is really really bad, and all of them are first-pick worthy heroes. As for other bans, any 5-man teamfight hero would be a pretty decent ban, or any heroes you're very scared of in lane.
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On August 01 2014 04:45 mozoku wrote:
A somewhat unrelated question as well. Given that I'm in the deep trench and I'm interested in improving as fast as possible, would I be better off playing "easy" heroes like Slark/Viper and trying to snowball off people's mistakes (there are plenty of mistakes at my level) to raise my MMR and learn to play a more stable game at a higher MMR where other people play better, or would I be better off playing heroes like Anti-Mage where I'd learn things like farming efficiently that (I'm assuming) are more useful at higher levels of play?
Or play a support maybe?
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United States13143 Posts
On August 01 2014 04:45 mozoku wrote:
A somewhat unrelated question as well. Given that I'm in the deep trench and I'm interested in improving as fast as possible, would I be better off playing "easy" heroes like Slark/Viper and trying to snowball off people's mistakes (there are plenty of mistakes at my level) to raise my MMR and learn to play a more stable game at a higher MMR where other people play better, or would I be better off playing heroes like Anti-Mage where I'd learn things like farming efficiently that (I'm assuming) are more useful at higher levels of play?
"Deep Trench" doesn't mean anything, I've talked to 5K+ people and they say people still do silly item/hero builds. The trench never ends.
Also if they're the same MMR as you, that means they're probably better than you in some way, probably mechanical skill or game sense.
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On August 01 2014 05:53 Sr18 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:45 mozoku wrote:
How much of laning (in pub duo lanes) is decided by the skill of the players, and how much is decided by the hero matchup? For example, I played a game yesterday where I was Tiny with AA as a laning partner, against Sniper/Huskar, and it felt like there was nothing i could do to even get into the lane to CS. I know the players weren't good (this is 2.1k mmr), but the Huskar was at least smart enough to zone me out by standing near the creep waves and just using burning spear when I came near. I couldn't even get within 500 range to draw creep aggro without losing enough health to make it not worth doing again.
Both skill and matchup are very important. It's hard to say which is the most deciding factor. In your case, once you get zoned out, it becomes really hard to get back in lane. On the other hand, if you played better you might have prevented the zone-out from happening entirely. Sniper and huskar have no stuns and are both slow and squishy at low levels. Tiny however has an AoE stun and AA deals great damage at lvl1 with great range and attack animation. If you went ham on lvl1, i wonder if you couldnt have just won the lane right there.
While its true that being agressive on lvl 1 (while you're still healthy!) is probably not a bad call, there is still no way in hell Tiny doesnt get utterly rekt in that lane. You only have mana for so many offensive tries. You might spend their salves/tangos, or hell even get a kill if they fuck up. But even if you do get a kill, they TP back, you're oom, and then you cant farm for shit anyway. Ofc getting kills is better than not, but that lane is gonna be cancer no matter what.
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On August 01 2014 09:32 hacklebeast wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 04:45 mozoku wrote:
A somewhat unrelated question as well. Given that I'm in the deep trench and I'm interested in improving as fast as possible, would I be better off playing "easy" heroes like Slark/Viper and trying to snowball off people's mistakes (there are plenty of mistakes at my level) to raise my MMR and learn to play a more stable game at a higher MMR where other people play better, or would I be better off playing heroes like Anti-Mage where I'd learn things like farming efficiently that (I'm assuming) are more useful at higher levels of play? Or play a support maybe?
having/being a support in low mmr is just a liability.
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On August 01 2014 16:44 ChunderBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 09:32 hacklebeast wrote:On August 01 2014 04:45 mozoku wrote:
A somewhat unrelated question as well. Given that I'm in the deep trench and I'm interested in improving as fast as possible, would I be better off playing "easy" heroes like Slark/Viper and trying to snowball off people's mistakes (there are plenty of mistakes at my level) to raise my MMR and learn to play a more stable game at a higher MMR where other people play better, or would I be better off playing heroes like Anti-Mage where I'd learn things like farming efficiently that (I'm assuming) are more useful at higher levels of play? Or play a support maybe? having/being a support in low mmr is just a liability.
True. I think supports have lower mmr than carries, so when you solo queue ranked as support, you better pray you get decent carries or your team speaks english.
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Its fun how ppl expect mid Ember to win Sniper 100-0 without any ganks or even fucking courier (Well, safelane fed it to enemy team before i even got my bottle). Then again, Its more or less viable to go brown boots manta with TB against heavy nukers, they told me.
E: u know, this should be QQ thread but it isnt hmm?
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On August 01 2014 17:48 SilverSkyLark wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 16:44 ChunderBoy wrote:
having/being a support in low mmr is just a liability. True. I think supports have lower mmr than carries, so when you solo queue ranked as support, you better pray you get decent carries or your team speaks english.
I think he's pointing out that you're better off just playing cores/carries at low level because bad supports are useless. You know, those infamous Riki, Bloodseeker, Drow, Viper, and Sniper games.
As for the statement in general though, you're correct. I like to pick cores or random all games and even if I random someone like Rhasta I can just go "lmao mid becuz i got random gold m8" to influence pubs to trust the guy with random gold and can still probably win the game solo because I trust my own skill with such an impacty hero.
If people don't pick a core quickly and get sucked up into a support role in any unranked or ranked game they should deal with it, makes me wonder why ppl don't play high impact heroes like visage or enigma often because the push game is so easy in un-co-ordinated mess.
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"High impact" ..
You think team picks heroes with the mindset of "Ah nice this hero doesn't have much impact, let's pick him guys." Yet close to all heroes were picked at TI.
You know how much a game changes when you have killed all their t1s, and haven't lost any of your own? Let alone kill all their outer towers and haven't lost any of your own? People keep saying treant is a low impact hero, yet that hero wins so many games on his own.
It's like saying goalies in sports has low impact.
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Hey you can leech seed first blood and blink ult with treant he's a strong hero in general!!
Forgive me if my post sounded much worse than I intended, I really meant to direct that towards people who complain about playing a support and not my own mindset. I like playing support, I play support most in friend stacks because I like how active they are in comparison to other roles. I'm just attacking people who think supports are boring and scared of not contributing, sorry for how I worded it.
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On August 01 2014 23:32 Rocket-Bear wrote:
"High impact" ..
You think team picks heroes with the mindset of "Ah nice this hero doesn't have much impact, let's pick him guys." Yet close to all heroes were picked at TI.
You know how much a game changes when you have killed all their t1s, and haven't lost any of your own? Let alone kill all their outer towers and haven't lost any of your own? People keep saying treant is a low impact hero, yet that hero wins so many games on his own.
It's like saying goalies in sports has low impact.
high impact tends to refer to 3 things with regards to carrying yourself in solo queue. 1) high solo kill potential. 2) high flash farm carry potential. 3) high rat/attrition potential. these properties are important when you want to win games regardless of what the hell your teammates are doing, and are often chosen to compensate for the lack of killpotential/carrypotential/pushpotential. treant has attrition potential, but no push, solokill, or carry potential, so he's only decent. rhasta can solo kill, solo farm (stacked large), push, make plays, everything, and i think most people would agree rhasta is a more robust hero.
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Disruptor has pretty low solo kill potential. Bad flash farm, and bad rat / push potential. Yet I think he's like top 5 best soloqueue support heroes.
High impact would imply your hero made a big difference in the outcome of the game. And Tree is really good at that by keeping your towers alive.
But whatever. Tell all the teams who has faced PPD/Goblak's treant and say that hero does very little difference anyway el oh el.
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i mean i'm just explaining how people are using the term "high impact," if you wanna use that definition personally, go ahead, but i mean that way all good drafts will have 5 equally high impact heroes, since a good draft will use all of it's heroes properly. kinda tautological, high impact = game-winning? all heroes can win games? no one's disputing that every hero is high impact when played to their maximum potential, i just think people use "high impact" with regard to pub picking to mean "relatively easy to get a lot done in a lot of hero compositions early through lategame"
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Hi all! I saw many times on stream ppl picking up invis rune withe the bottle then go invis and use another charge and they still reamains invis. When i try to do that i return visible. Is there some timings to respect to remains inisible??
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On August 02 2014 01:25 [APGT]Tex wrote:
Hi all! I saw many times on stream ppl picking up invis rune withe the bottle then go invis and use another charge and they still reamains invis. When i try to do that i return visible. Is there some timings to respect to remains inisible??
You can take actions during the fade time and remain invisible. Invis rune has a fade time of 2 seconds allowing you to use the invis rune and one bottle charge.
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Does BKB on centaur make you not take self-damage from double edge (same with pudge and rot)?
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Yes bkb prevents self-damage from rot and double edge and abaddon's mist coil and huskar's ult
Doesn't protect from Alch self-stun dmg (though does prevent the stun) and doesn't protect from wisp over-charge hp loss, nor from the HP cost on phoenix's spells
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On August 01 2014 23:57 Rocket-Bear wrote:
Disruptor has pretty low solo kill potential. Bad flash farm, and bad rat / push potential. Yet I think he's like top 5 best soloqueue support heroes.
High impact would imply your hero made a big difference in the outcome of the game. And Tree is really good at that by keeping your towers alive.
But whatever. Tell all the teams who has faced PPD/Goblak's treant and say that hero does very little difference anyway el oh el.
There's a difference between high impact heroes and heroes that you can potentially win nearly every game on.
Disruptor is high impact, but he is pretty weak in lane and if your team loses the laning phase or early game your only option is to teamfight or gank...but the enemy heroes are stronger than you and the other team may have already proved they are better than the 4 other players on your team.
If you compare him to Rhasta, he can gank better early on, and potentially create space for a losing team by pushing towers. I wouldn't say Rhasta really fits the category of potentially winning every game, but he might have more options than Disruptor.
If you compare both of them to someone like QoP you can see you have more options on QoP. As QoP you can't really get shut down in laning phase, can solo kill people and be good at teamfights early. If you need to split push you can do so since the other team needs to commit a ton of resources to gank someone with blink. Plus she farms fast and scales reasonably well into the lategame. It means if you need to you can run around the map farming for a huge amount of time getting farm for yourself and creating space for your team.
If you are really better than the MMR you are in you can get a way higher win rate with someone who can do as much as QoP than you could with Disruptor.
It really just depends what you are aiming for though. Most players should be happy with anything over 50%, and playing high impact heroes like Disruptor, Tidehunter, etc... are going to get you over 50%. If you're some veteran with 6k party mmr and 3k solo, then maybe you wont be happy winning 55% of your 3k solo q games and want to pick someone like QoP to try get a 70% win rate.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On August 02 2014 02:48 rob.au wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 23:57 Rocket-Bear wrote:
Disruptor has pretty low solo kill potential. Bad flash farm, and bad rat / push potential. Yet I think he's like top 5 best soloqueue support heroes.
High impact would imply your hero made a big difference in the outcome of the game. And Tree is really good at that by keeping your towers alive.
But whatever. Tell all the teams who has faced PPD/Goblak's treant and say that hero does very little difference anyway el oh el. There's a difference between high impact heroes and heroes that you can potentially win nearly every game on. Disruptor is high impact, but he is pretty weak in lane and if your team loses the laning phase or early game your only option is to teamfight or gank...but the enemy heroes are stronger than you and the other team may have already proved they are better than the 4 other players on your team. If you compare him to Rhasta, he can gank better early on, and potentially create space for a losing team by pushing towers. I wouldn't say Rhasta really fits the category of potentially winning every game, but he might have more options than Disruptor. If you compare both of them to someone like QoP you can see you have more options on QoP. As QoP you can't really get shut down in laning phase, can solo kill people and be good at teamfights early. If you need to split push you can do so since the other team needs to commit a ton of resources to gank someone with blink. Plus she farms fast and scales reasonably well into the lategame. It means if you need to you can run around the map farming for a huge amount of time getting farm for yourself and creating space for your team. If you are really better than the MMR you are in you can get a way higher win rate with someone who can do as much as QoP than you could with Disruptor. It really just depends what you are aiming for though. Most players should be happy with anything over 50%, and playing high impact heroes like Disruptor, Tidehunter, etc... are going to get you over 50%. If you're some veteran with 6k party mmr and 3k solo, then maybe you wont be happy winning 55% of your 3k solo q games and want to pick someone like QoP to try get a 70% win rate.
Disruptor is weak in lane? Rofl.
Hitting from 600 range and having one of the most annoying spells in game + best spell in game ain't something to be shy of.
And he's not bad in ganking because of best spell in game either, at least, not worse than Rhasta.
>>As QoP you can't really get shut down in laning phase
k
On August 02 2014 03:06 HollowLord wrote:
Why the hell was KotL never picked at TI4
No idea.
Ignoring such waveclearing supports as CM and KotL whole tournament and seeing VG stomping people with mid-game timings whole tournament is hilarious.
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Why the hell was KotL never picked at TI4
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EPT
