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govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 01:20:34
June 18 2014 01:17 GMT
#17921
On June 18 2014 09:08 icystorage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 09:00 govie wrote:
I think bloodseeker is really good if you go the wagamama build, you can win any game solo no matter how many feeders you got on your team. Its online early, pretty descent until lategame and it recks everybody with big snowballpotential, just R+blademail+Q+rightclick=win. Its just your descisionmaking that determins if you die or kill alot. The idea behind it is that after ultimate they cant attack you but cant run away either (blademail+mjolnir shineystuff).

I thought it was : PMS --> PT --> Drums --> Blademail --> S&Y --> Mjolnir --> BKB

you forgot i can counter you with TP


Bountyhunter is countered with wards, so what. Wagamama is highest mmr players in that period by far >7000, you saying he dumb? haha

Below are the stats from all his bloodseeker matches on dotabuff, maybe helpfull :

http://dotabuff.com/players/32995405/matches?date=&faction=&hero=bloodseeker&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
June 18 2014 01:22 GMT
#17922
you said you can win any game solo and "The idea behind it is that after ultimate they cant attack you but cant run away either (blademail+mjolnir shineystuff)."

which can all be countered by TP unless you have basher/mkb or very high dps
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12248 Posts
June 18 2014 03:34 GMT
#17923
On June 18 2014 10:17 govie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 09:08 icystorage wrote:
On June 18 2014 09:00 govie wrote:
I think bloodseeker is really good if you go the wagamama build, you can win any game solo no matter how many feeders you got on your team. Its online early, pretty descent until lategame and it recks everybody with big snowballpotential, just R+blademail+Q+rightclick=win. Its just your descisionmaking that determins if you die or kill alot. The idea behind it is that after ultimate they cant attack you but cant run away either (blademail+mjolnir shineystuff).

I thought it was : PMS --> PT --> Drums --> Blademail --> S&Y --> Mjolnir --> BKB

you forgot i can counter you with TP


Bountyhunter is countered with wards, so what. Wagamama is highest mmr players in that period by far >7000, you saying he dumb? haha

Below are the stats from all his bloodseeker matches on dotabuff, maybe helpfull :

http://dotabuff.com/players/32995405/matches?date=&faction=&hero=bloodseeker&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=


I notice he doesn't go Blademail in all his games, and he opts to go Treads in more games than I would have expected. Personally I like Phase a lot more on Bloodseeker because the active when you have a lot of Thirst stacks can be immensely helpful. Unfortunately I can't view any of these replays since they've expired, but are you convinced that he goes Drums->Blademail->S&Y?
Moderator
Kreb
Profile Joined September 2010
4834 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 07:19:52
June 18 2014 07:18 GMT
#17924
No player at that high MMR only goes one build. There might be one or two heroes with extremely set builds but those are the very rare exceptions. You can have a go-to build but you should always look at how the games go and theres always gonna be the games where you need to switch it up.

They have superior lategame? Maybe build more towards midgame.
You had a really good start? Maybe play greedy and skip a midgame item like drums for more expensive stuff.
You had a bad start? Maybe buy fighting items (armlet, maelstrom, crystalis) you wouldnt otherwise.
You play in a push-heavy lineup? Maybe build a team item like vlad/mek/pipe/necro which you wouldnt otherwise.
Lots of magic damage? Get BKB earlier.

Blade mail seems like a solid choice on BS, but its hardly a 100% purchase.
Autotroph
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom940 Posts
June 18 2014 09:49 GMT
#17925
On June 18 2014 08:33 Ayaz2810 wrote:
I recall seeing a discussion somewhere about how bad Lina's animation is. But that's never made much sense to me. All you have to do is time your attacks to compensate. And I guess you telegraph your attack to the opponent mid who might be able to deny you more frequently. But Ina. Low tier MMR game, I really don't see people capitalizing on her attack animation in a meaningful way


while you can compensate a lot when you learn the feel of the attack, a hero with a longer animation is at an inherent disadvantage as their quanta of reaction is fixed at a longer time: if something happens within that fixed time period (the enemy uses a spell, double damage actives etc etc) it cannot be reacted to, whereas a hero with a shorter animation can adjust for it.
textbookcovers.tumblr.com
Aikin
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria532 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 13:31:53
June 18 2014 10:18 GMT
#17926
On June 18 2014 05:29 schmitty9800 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 03:57 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Which carry has the best early game solo kill potential? I so fucking tired of losing 18 out of every 20 games because multiple people on my team are 0-10 by 20 minutes into the game. I need a high impact early game hero who can wreck face one on one. Which hero will be my savior?

Viper, Wraith King, Ember Spirit (if you're good)


Lone Druid off lane can easily solo snow ball games. You should crush most dual lanes and people on my MMR(~4k) seem to misplay tri lanes horrible all the time.
[A]dmiral Bulldog | Naniwa | [A]lliance
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
June 18 2014 10:34 GMT
#17927
On June 18 2014 12:34 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 10:17 govie wrote:
On June 18 2014 09:08 icystorage wrote:
On June 18 2014 09:00 govie wrote:
I think bloodseeker is really good if you go the wagamama build, you can win any game solo no matter how many feeders you got on your team. Its online early, pretty descent until lategame and it recks everybody with big snowballpotential, just R+blademail+Q+rightclick=win. Its just your descisionmaking that determins if you die or kill alot. The idea behind it is that after ultimate they cant attack you but cant run away either (blademail+mjolnir shineystuff).

I thought it was : PMS --> PT --> Drums --> Blademail --> S&Y --> Mjolnir --> BKB

you forgot i can counter you with TP


Bountyhunter is countered with wards, so what. Wagamama is highest mmr players in that period by far >7000, you saying he dumb? haha

Below are the stats from all his bloodseeker matches on dotabuff, maybe helpfull :

http://dotabuff.com/players/32995405/matches?date=&faction=&hero=bloodseeker&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&duration=


I notice he doesn't go Blademail in all his games, and he opts to go Treads in more games than I would have expected. Personally I like Phase a lot more on Bloodseeker because the active when you have a lot of Thirst stacks can be immensely helpful. Unfortunately I can't view any of these replays since they've expired, but are you convinced that he goes Drums->Blademail->S&Y?


wierd that you can write messages but cant view a dotabuff profile.
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-18 14:14:04
June 18 2014 14:13 GMT
#17928
On June 18 2014 19:18 Aikin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 05:29 schmitty9800 wrote:
On June 18 2014 03:57 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Which carry has the best early game solo kill potential? I so fucking tired of losing 18 out of every 20 games because multiple people on my team are 0-10 by 20 minutes into the game. I need a high impact early game hero who can wreck face one on one. Which hero will be my savior?

Viper, Wraith King, Ember Spirit (if you're good)


Lone Druid off lane can easily solo snow ball games. You should crush most dual lanes and people on my MMR(~4k) seem to misplay tri lanes horrible all the time.

Lone Druid is one of the best pub heroes in that level. It hilarious how bad people are at dealing with him in pubs - they usually just let me casually sit in lane for some reason.
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Tuco
Profile Joined September 2010
China200 Posts
June 18 2014 15:31 GMT
#17929
Why is midas common on heroes like doom and nature's prophet that are good at farming anyway?
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
June 18 2014 15:37 GMT
#17930
Because those heroes won't do anything with a 2K gold item anyway so it might as well just be a farming one that gets them to bigger items faster. Both also can use the attack speed not too badly.

Doom can go blink or mek instead of midas but rarely does these days in pro games since both those heroes are often offlaners who acquire a "catch up midas".
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
ChunderBoy
Profile Joined August 2011
3242 Posts
June 18 2014 16:56 GMT
#17931
I'd rather want the worst player on my team be the bloodseeker, idc if he jungles or goes offlane as long as he gets passive and i see anyone with <50% hp im happy. counter juke lord 2k mmr bloodseekers are still more helpful than 5k supports.
"mmr is a social construct" - tumblr
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
June 18 2014 17:23 GMT
#17932
On June 18 2014 23:13 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 19:18 Aikin wrote:
On June 18 2014 05:29 schmitty9800 wrote:
On June 18 2014 03:57 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Which carry has the best early game solo kill potential? I so fucking tired of losing 18 out of every 20 games because multiple people on my team are 0-10 by 20 minutes into the game. I need a high impact early game hero who can wreck face one on one. Which hero will be my savior?

Viper, Wraith King, Ember Spirit (if you're good)


Lone Druid off lane can easily solo snow ball games. You should crush most dual lanes and people on my MMR(~4k) seem to misplay tri lanes horrible all the time.

Lone Druid is one of the best pub heroes in that level. It hilarious how bad people are at dealing with him in pubs - they usually just let me casually sit in lane for some reason.


Beyond getting a radiance on your bear, I have no idea how lone druid is played. Is the whole point for the bear to do all the work for you while you farm or something? He seems like a good hero, I just don't know how he works. Kind of the same thing with troll warlord and beastmaster. They seem useless to me but obviously are not.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
June 18 2014 18:38 GMT
#17933
troll lately has been built for utility, you get him to complement a team that takes advantage of his ult. A few pros have recently gone mid and done something like bottle phase mek into team fight and push, but that only works with coordinated game play.

Beast master is awesome, he's a very solid mid with his high base armor and axes for clearing, plus hawk for rune control. Also a great offlaner with his base armor and ms, plus he can clear ancients with his axes.

For bear, radiance is great for pushing, but the bear really destroys towers because of demolish (extra 50%? damage to towers) To siege you need to be near your bear, but the bear can solo farm while you''re safe somewhere else (albeit somewhat slowly since he can't attack)
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
June 18 2014 19:08 GMT
#17934
On June 19 2014 03:38 KOFgokuon wrote:
troll lately has been built for utility, you get him to complement a team that takes advantage of his ult. A few pros have recently gone mid and done something like bottle phase mek into team fight and push, but that only works with coordinated game play.

Beast master is awesome, he's a very solid mid with his high base armor and axes for clearing, plus hawk for rune control. Also a great offlaner with his base armor and ms, plus he can clear ancients with his axes.

For bear, radiance is great for pushing, but the bear really destroys towers because of demolish (extra 50%? damage to towers) To siege you need to be near your bear, but the bear can solo farm while you''re safe somewhere else (albeit somewhat slowly since he can't attack)


I didn't realize he did extra tower damage. I can see how that would help. Do people build necrobook on lone druid for pushing? I don't think I've ever seen it but I would imagine its good. As for beastmaster, I've watched people clear jungle stacks with his axes, but it doesn't look like they do a whole lot to heroes. And after you throw the axes, you don't seem to have much follow up. This coming from my super limited experience of course.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
June 18 2014 19:38 GMT
#17935
ive watched wagamama play bs a bit and was quite unimpressed but the skillset of the hero allows you to win any games as long as you fight with a bracer/stick
also bs has the highest physical dps of any hero until 25/30min.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
June 18 2014 20:11 GMT
#17936
On June 19 2014 04:08 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 03:38 KOFgokuon wrote:
troll lately has been built for utility, you get him to complement a team that takes advantage of his ult. A few pros have recently gone mid and done something like bottle phase mek into team fight and push, but that only works with coordinated game play.

Beast master is awesome, he's a very solid mid with his high base armor and axes for clearing, plus hawk for rune control. Also a great offlaner with his base armor and ms, plus he can clear ancients with his axes.

For bear, radiance is great for pushing, but the bear really destroys towers because of demolish (extra 50%? damage to towers) To siege you need to be near your bear, but the bear can solo farm while you''re safe somewhere else (albeit somewhat slowly since he can't attack)


I didn't realize he did extra tower damage. I can see how that would help. Do people build necrobook on lone druid for pushing? I don't think I've ever seen it but I would imagine its good. As for beastmaster, I've watched people clear jungle stacks with his axes, but it doesn't look like they do a whole lot to heroes. And after you throw the axes, you don't seem to have much follow up. This coming from my super limited experience of course.

You dont need necro on LD since you already destroy towers. Getting damage is better.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
SpiritoftheTunA
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States20903 Posts
June 18 2014 20:41 GMT
#17937
ld's core items consist of midas (if you think game goes late), maelstrom, and radiance. maelstrom in contested earlymidgames, radiance in passive games

casual oov is nice for laning, casual cloak is sometimes necessary against too much early magic burst, upgrade into hood if necessary

ac and basher are probably the two most common luxury items
posting on liquid sites in current year
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
June 18 2014 20:48 GMT
#17938
On June 19 2014 02:23 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2014 23:13 Comeh wrote:
On June 18 2014 19:18 Aikin wrote:
On June 18 2014 05:29 schmitty9800 wrote:
On June 18 2014 03:57 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Which carry has the best early game solo kill potential? I so fucking tired of losing 18 out of every 20 games because multiple people on my team are 0-10 by 20 minutes into the game. I need a high impact early game hero who can wreck face one on one. Which hero will be my savior?

Viper, Wraith King, Ember Spirit (if you're good)


Lone Druid off lane can easily solo snow ball games. You should crush most dual lanes and people on my MMR(~4k) seem to misplay tri lanes horrible all the time.

Lone Druid is one of the best pub heroes in that level. It hilarious how bad people are at dealing with him in pubs - they usually just let me casually sit in lane for some reason.


Beyond getting a radiance on your bear, I have no idea how lone druid is played. Is the whole point for the bear to do all the work for you while you farm or something? He seems like a good hero, I just don't know how he works. Kind of the same thing with troll warlord and beastmaster. They seem useless to me but obviously are not.

I dont even get radiance more often than not (unless i"m safelane, which never happens). Typically I'll get a phase late midas into maelstrom, and I've found it very effective.
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TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
June 18 2014 20:53 GMT
#17939
On June 19 2014 05:48 Comeh wrote:
I dont even get radiance more often than not (unless i"m safelane, which never happens). Typically I'll get a phase late midas into maelstrom, and I've found it very effective.

Honestly, smaller fighting items in general make more sense on a pub LD. This includes common stuff like Phase, Mael, Basher, but even more controversial stuff like an earlier Vlad's or a Yasha on your hero.

LD in competitive games is a very timing-dependent hero--the hero's strength largely rests on the team as a whole abusing the hero's strong timings to mount game-winning pushes (Radiance, AC). Pub games are never going to involve that coordination around a single hero's timings, so you inevitably have to make concessions for item choices that have an overall smoother, incremental tempo.
Moderator
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
June 18 2014 22:00 GMT
#17940
On June 19 2014 05:53 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2014 05:48 Comeh wrote:
I dont even get radiance more often than not (unless i"m safelane, which never happens). Typically I'll get a phase late midas into maelstrom, and I've found it very effective.

Honestly, smaller fighting items in general make more sense on a pub LD. This includes common stuff like Phase, Mael, Basher, but even more controversial stuff like an earlier Vlad's or a Yasha on your hero.

LD in competitive games is a very timing-dependent hero--the hero's strength largely rests on the team as a whole abusing the hero's strong timings to mount game-winning pushes (Radiance, AC). Pub games are never going to involve that coordination around a single hero's timings, so you inevitably have to make concessions for item choices that have an overall smoother, incremental tempo.


When you talk about these items, are you talking about having them on your hero or the bear? Or does it even matter?
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