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Unless you know that you can't ever die as weaver, go buy a linken's at some point.
You have shukuchi, which grants max movespeed and invisibility, for 4 seconds every 6 seconds, or in other words only 2 secs downtime.
The most probably way for enemies to kill you is either catching you with a disable or bursting you down in under a second. The most dangerous skills for both these methods are single target and therefore get blocked by Linken's.
Other than that Weaver is pretty variable on items. Can't think of any damage item that's considered superior over another on weaver. Just take some common items for range dps.
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there's rarely any reason to get linkens over bkb or heart on weaver
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Linkens is better than Bkb for weaver, he can get away from almost anything with his mobility, as long as he doesn't get locked, its very hard to lock him down and initate on him with Linkens, since it blocks nearly everything
BkB is better for standing your ground and fighting, even with a heart you don't have enough health to tank through damage.
Weaver's job is also really that of a splitpusher, and linkens works far better with that role by making his spells extremely spammable, and giving some damage/survival with stats
Its really good on him
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On March 18 2013 18:33 Dead9 wrote:
there's rarely any reason to get linkens over bkb or heart on weaver
linkens was core on weaver for a long time
bkb never was. as people have said above, linkens is sufficient in most cases for mid game survival purposes
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IMO linkens is worthwhile only if they have spells like roar/hex/shackle that can catch you and lock you down. Aquila+wand+clarities should keep your mana going otherwise.
I saw an interesting build by I think Burning a year and a half ago or something when DK was still playing dota 1... Phase boots into bloodstone; I guess the idea was to get some damage through phase and then just have infinite chasing ability with BS. He probably had medallion and/or urn in there as well.
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This looks like a build you can only do when far ahead. BS doesn't grant you that much burst survivability and you don't get a lot of damage. So yeah if they can't kill you already it looks loike a cool item, but if they can't kill you, why not take a damage item ?
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You get enough mana from Aquila + either urn/medallion & PT switching. Going BS sounds silly. Only beneficial things you get from it are HP+faster respawn and less gold lost.
Going linkens is a very situational pickup in my opinion. If you're either the only one capable of carrying the game and thus just farm like mad, then going linkens is great. The other time when I would get it if the enemy team is heavy on disables that go through BKB like lasso/fiends grip etc.
Weaver is super strong in the early/mid game because of shukuchi. His teamfight potential is very high as well, the beetles just crush the armor and make your attacks do a shitload of damage. As a carry he doesn't perform as good, going linkens means you will hardly do any damage and will just be slightly harder to kill. I rather invest into early game items that let me do more in the mid game.
Aquila, urn, medallion, drums, casual vit booster(later into heart), yasha are all great items for weaver and some of them have a good build-up for endgame too.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
On March 18 2013 19:30 Corr wrote:
IMO linkens is worthwhile only if they have spells like roar/hex/shackle that can catch you and lock you down. Aquila+wand+clarities should keep your mana going otherwise.
I saw an interesting build by I think Burning a year and a half ago or something when DK was still playing dota 1... Phase boots into bloodstone; I guess the idea was to get some damage through phase and then just have infinite chasing ability with BS. He probably had medallion and/or urn in there as well.
Bloodstone is a bad item on weaver, there is absolutely no reason to go for it. You don't need the absurd mana regen and you are not a snowballing hero. Pros make bad decisions sometimes.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 18 2013 15:47 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
[The reason weaver gets linkens isnt just for the regen, its so you dont die.
Except Linken's is not a cost-efficient item unless you make use of the regen. So while it's not only bought for the regen, you have to benefit heavily from the regen for it to be worthwhile.
Virtually all heroes that buy Linken's do so with the intent of making use of it's regen for farming (Medusa, Morphling, etc) unless it's being bought as a situational pickup for very specific spells (e.g. Primal Roar).
On March 18 2013 15:47 13_Doomblaze_37 wrote:
With urn tranquils aquila whatever you're squishy as fuck and if you participate in early fights and they have a ward down youre going to be the top priority..
lol?
Tranquil Aquila Urn gives you cost-efficient combat stats--at a time when you'd only have a Perseverance if you were making Linkens. Surprisingly enough, if you actually buy combat stats, you're actually not that easy to kill.
On March 18 2013 18:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 18:33 Dead9 wrote:
there's rarely any reason to get linkens over bkb or heart on weaver linkens was core on weaver for a long time bkb never was. as people have said above, linkens is sufficient in most cases for mid game survival purposes
RStars.Air actually gets BKB as his go-to survivability item on Weaver, and his understanding of the hero is among the best in China.
It's his signature hero, and has received respect bans from iG in the past in ACE League.
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On March 19 2013 00:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 18:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:On March 18 2013 18:33 Dead9 wrote:
there's rarely any reason to get linkens over bkb or heart on weaver linkens was core on weaver for a long time bkb never was. as people have said above, linkens is sufficient in most cases for mid game survival purposes RStars.Air actually gets BKB as his go-to survivability item on Weaver, and his understanding of the hero is among the best in China. It's his signature hero, and has received respect bans from iG in the past in ACE League.
im gonna assume he has a specific playstyle with weaver that requires him to have bkb, but in most cases linkens is sufficient for survival purposes. therefore linkens is the more common build
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WTF did i just see
Desolator stack with Germinate attack (Weaver) ?
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On March 19 2013 00:59 VelJa wrote:
WTF did i just see
Desolator stack with Germinate attack (Weaver) ?
Only the first attack applies the buff , which doesn't matter at all in practice so it stacks
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in terms of survivability, bkb and heart are both more effective than linkens
with bkb you can kill a couple supports and time lapse out pretty much guaranteed
if you wanna farm for forever linkens is decent since it makes it hard for the opposing team to catch you, but it's not hard to outcarry weaver, plus it's not really that good in teamfights
alternately if they have like bm roar or something and you're the highest priority target, but going for a quick linkens really sets you back early and midgame
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Also, bkb+yasha is 5950, linkens is 5175.
Or bkb+drums or bkb+ medallion+urn.
It has to be considered too.
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obviously you can make arguments for both items. im just saying linkens is the better item for a common weaver build. despite the cost, it provides much more utility. i dunno about you guys but when i play weaver im never in the middle of the teamfight soaking up spells so....never felt the need for a bkb
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United States47024 Posts
On March 19 2013 00:34 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 00:05 TheYango wrote:On March 18 2013 18:59 evilfatsh1t wrote:On March 18 2013 18:33 Dead9 wrote:
there's rarely any reason to get linkens over bkb or heart on weaver linkens was core on weaver for a long time bkb never was. as people have said above, linkens is sufficient in most cases for mid game survival purposes RStars.Air actually gets BKB as his go-to survivability item on Weaver, and his understanding of the hero is among the best in China. It's his signature hero, and has received respect bans from iG in the past in ACE League. im gonna assume he has a specific playstyle with weaver that requires him to have bkb, but in most cases linkens is sufficient for survival purposes. therefore linkens is the more common build
His "specific playstyle" has more or less been the standard in Chinese play in both pub and competitive level play for more than a year, going back to late 6.72. The only thing that's really specific to Air is that RisingStars typically runs Weaver mid rather than sidelane, so he prefers Treads+Bottle+Wraith to Tranquil+Aquila (Weaver has great rune control thanks to Shukuchi).
Toward the end of 6.72, Weaver more or less broke the mold of the old Vanguard, Linken, or Radiance-based builds and developed into Drums, Medallion, Pipe, etc-based teamfight builds and hasn't looked back.
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Pipe seems mildly dubious on weaver due to the low HP pool and strength gain, but I do understand the theory of a fast pipe on a farming teamfight hero that isn't too item dependant to contribute to early-midgame fights.
Drums also seem mildly sketchy on weaver since the movespeed is not too relevant nor is the attack speed, but again its a team-benefit item, and this time the stats are more cost efficient.
Urn and Medallion make a ton of sense for sure, plus they fit in to the economy of a suicide-solo weaver if that is how he is laned.
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United States47024 Posts
Pipe was more or less an "experiment" of sorts toward the end of 6.72--I only remember seeing it in a few games from DK and Panda when Weaver wasn't the main carry. Tranquil and Aquila weren't in the game yet, so RoH was still the go-to lane regen option. Pipe was a more team-focused way to use an RoH than Vanguard.
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Hood is very strong on Weaver against some lineups, and if you already have it might as well upgrade to Pipe to help the team.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Pipe in some ways serves Weaver similar to how Linkens does for hp regen and survivability (magic resist + shield versus spell block), but is far more team focused.
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EPT
