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TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-17 18:51:18
March 17 2013 18:50 GMT
#7301
On March 17 2013 21:37 Belisarius wrote:
Opinions on linken's first for weaver?

I see so many conflicting opinions on builds for him, I guess because he can do so many things. Personally I love perseverance, and that builds so naturally into linken's that I'm doing it most of the time. I'm not sure whether it's the most efficient first big item, though.

Usually ring of basi > boots/wand > RoA > Perseverance > Linken's and then deso/daed/radiance

A lot of people seem to skip boots on him altogether because of shikuchi, but I'm not sure I like that. He's so slow for the two seconds he's out of it. I tend to compromise and get boots, but skip treads if the game's going well since I get stats from Linken's anyway.

The thing is, Weaver doesn't need Linken's regen. It's generally superfluous. Some combination of Tranquil/Aquila/Urn/Bottle covers your regen needs because your spells are cheap. And 40% of Linkens' cost is spent on that regen. You want items that give you more cost-effective combat stats, because that's really where Weaver shines--in midgame teamfights. Even if you want to play the farm game, a straight Radiance after those early game regen+combat items (Aquila, Urn, Tranquils, etc.) will farm faster than Linken's.
Moderator
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9056 Posts
March 17 2013 19:44 GMT
#7302
if each of my teammates has a Radiance, do they stack?
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
March 17 2013 19:44 GMT
#7303
On March 18 2013 04:44 Garnet wrote:
if each of my teammates has a Radiance, do they stack?

Only one instance of radiance takes effect
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
March 17 2013 19:45 GMT
#7304
On March 18 2013 04:44 Garnet wrote:
if each of my teammates has a Radiance, do they stack?


You can only be burned by one radiance. Radiance PL would be super terror if they all burned you ^_^
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
10734
Profile Joined September 2012
340 Posts
March 17 2013 22:51 GMT
#7305
What items should I get in what order and what situation on lone druid? I've been going Maelstorm -> AC -> double basher -> Mjollnir -> ..? in the past few games and it's working really well, not sure if it's actually good though.

Also do vlad's and AC's aura stack?
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
March 17 2013 22:57 GMT
#7306
On March 18 2013 07:51 10734 wrote:
What items should I get in what order and what situation on lone druid? I've been going Maelstorm -> AC -> double basher -> Mjollnir -> ..? in the past few games and it's working really well, not sure if it's actually good though.

Also do vlad's and AC's aura stack?


None of the devotion auras in this game stack. The highest one will benefit allied units. In terms of items for Lone Druid you typically want to go either MKB or Daedalus if you want more damage after you have AC. If nobody else on your team is making vlads it is worthwhile to pick up yourself though.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
TheSubtleArt
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada2527 Posts
March 17 2013 23:40 GMT
#7307
When playing leshrac, how do you decide between leveling your W (edict) or E (lightning)? I've seen pros do both (either split earth + edict or split earth + lightning, with maybe a point in the ability you're not prioritizing), but I'm not sure what situations call for one over the other
Dodge arrows
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-17 23:56:15
March 17 2013 23:49 GMT
#7308
On March 18 2013 03:50 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2013 21:37 Belisarius wrote:
Opinions on linken's first for weaver?

I see so many conflicting opinions on builds for him, I guess because he can do so many things. Personally I love perseverance, and that builds so naturally into linken's that I'm doing it most of the time. I'm not sure whether it's the most efficient first big item, though.

Usually ring of basi > boots/wand > RoA > Perseverance > Linken's and then deso/daed/radiance

A lot of people seem to skip boots on him altogether because of shikuchi, but I'm not sure I like that. He's so slow for the two seconds he's out of it. I tend to compromise and get boots, but skip treads if the game's going well since I get stats from Linken's anyway.

The thing is, Weaver doesn't need Linken's regen. It's generally superfluous. Some combination of Tranquil/Aquila/Urn/Bottle covers your regen needs because your spells are cheap. And 40% of Linkens' cost is spent on that regen. You want items that give you more cost-effective combat stats, because that's really where Weaver shines--in midgame teamfights. Even if you want to play the farm game, a straight Radiance after those early game regen+combat items (Aquila, Urn, Tranquils, etc.) will farm faster than Linken's.


See, his spells are cheap but his stats are so poor that I feel like even cheap spells start to hurt. I'm sure I'm just bad, but I haven't found the mana regen from basi to be anywhere near sufficient to keep shikuchi/whatever up as often as I want it.

I agree that the full Linken's regen is overkill, but the perseverance itself is so helpful in that regard, and the bulk stats from orb seem like a natural progression.

What would a midgame weaver look like instead? Wraith bands? Drums? Crystalis? Half a deso? 90% of non-Linken's builds I've come across just rush radiance after ring.
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
March 17 2013 23:55 GMT
#7309
Urn Aquila wand tranquil
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8942 Posts
March 17 2013 23:56 GMT
#7310
On March 18 2013 08:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:
When playing leshrac, how do you decide between leveling your W (edict) or E (lightning)? I've seen pros do both (either split earth + edict or split earth + lightning, with maybe a point in the ability you're not prioritizing), but I'm not sure what situations call for one over the other

if you require the range lightning gives you then you take lightning over edict. if you can handle getting up close and need pushing power, edict over lightning.
MSGHero
Profile Joined December 2012
United States147 Posts
March 17 2013 23:59 GMT
#7311
On March 18 2013 08:40 TheSubtleArt wrote:
When playing leshrac, how do you decide between leveling your W (edict) or E (lightning)? I've seen pros do both (either split earth + edict or split earth + lightning, with maybe a point in the ability you're not prioritizing), but I'm not sure what situations call for one over the other

Edict is for pushing (and removing ta's shield among other things), lightning is for lane control/harassing. If you're support and your lane has enough cc for edict to be useful, then you get that. Mid lesh usually gets lightning to push the wave before a rune spawns. Lighting is much better in teamfights with its short cooldown.
aintz
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada5624 Posts
March 18 2013 00:16 GMT
#7312
if you're not pushing or charging into heroes to fight dont get edict. when you're mid, the build depends on what hero you're against.
rebdomine
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
6040 Posts
March 18 2013 02:57 GMT
#7313
So yeah I've been trying to play solo mid a bit more recently, just to add a bit more versatility to my play (playing either just supp or carry gets tiring after a while and I kind of want to learn solo mid as it's a position that can really help me win more games when I solo pub), and I just wanted to know some things.

When do you decide to roam for a gank? For something like NS, it's obviously when the first night time kicks in. But how do you determine when to go around when using a hero like a QoP or a TA? I just generally don't have a feel yet of when I should be going for a gank or just keep the opposing mid hero in check.

When should I go for runes? There are games when I control the runes and yet still get outleveled by the opposing mid cause I'm not in lane when I go grab the runes.

How should I play using melee mids (e.g. DK, NS, Brewmaster)? The thing I struggle with NS mid is I'm relegated to just last hitting with Void as I can't really walk in and get creep kills without getting harassed to hell and back by the opposing mid.
"Just because you are correct doesn't mean you are right!"
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
March 18 2013 03:12 GMT
#7314
On March 18 2013 11:57 rebdomine wrote:
When do you decide to roam for a gank? For something like NS, it's obviously when the first night time kicks in. But how do you determine when to go around when using a hero like a QoP or a TA? I just generally don't have a feel yet of when I should be going for a gank or just keep the opposing mid hero in check.

Typically even for non-NS mids, the first night is still a reasonable time to start looking for ganks. This is because for the majority of heroes, vision shrinks during night time to 800 range, from 1800, meaning that you can generally cast your abilities right about when they can see you (most point-and-click skills have ~600-700 range). It's a bit troublesome to gank during the daytime unless the enemy is incredibly overextended because 1800 sight range makes it hard to approach without being seen.

The exception to this is when you get certain runes (Haste, Invis, etc.) that allow you to engage ganks easily without the need for the restrictions of night vision.

On March 18 2013 11:57 rebdomine wrote:
When should I go for runes? There are games when I control the runes and yet still get outleveled by the opposing mid cause I'm not in lane when I go grab the runes.

In general, you want to try and push up your lane before going for runes. You don't want to give up a wave of creeps to go for runes. If you push up your lane properly before rune spawns (using AoE abilities to push the wave around x:30-x:45 before a rune spawns), you should only miss 1-2 creeps to get the rune.

On March 18 2013 11:57 rebdomine wrote:
How should I play using melee mids (e.g. DK, NS, Brewmaster)? The thing I struggle with NS mid is I'm relegated to just last hitting with Void as I can't really walk in and get creep kills without getting harassed to hell and back by the opposing mid.

Bottle-crow. Get your bottle as fast as possible, and bottle-crow repeatedly. With bottle-crowing, you can more or less just use your nukes on cooldown to harass/get lasthits, and chip at the opponents' HP.
Moderator
Mithhaike
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Singapore2759 Posts
March 18 2013 03:32 GMT
#7315
On March 18 2013 11:57 rebdomine wrote:
So yeah I've been trying to play solo mid a bit more recently, just to add a bit more versatility to my play (playing either just supp or carry gets tiring after a while and I kind of want to learn solo mid as it's a position that can really help me win more games when I solo pub), and I just wanted to know some things.

When do you decide to roam for a gank? For something like NS, it's obviously when the first night time kicks in. But how do you determine when to go around when using a hero like a QoP or a TA? I just generally don't have a feel yet of when I should be going for a gank or just keep the opposing mid hero in check.

When should I go for runes? There are games when I control the runes and yet still get outleveled by the opposing mid cause I'm not in lane when I go grab the runes.

How should I play using melee mids (e.g. DK, NS, Brewmaster)? The thing I struggle with NS mid is I'm relegated to just last hitting with Void as I can't really walk in and get creep kills without getting harassed to hell and back by the opposing mid.


I found that ganking when i have a good rune(invis/haste) or at night only works better as a mid QOP/TA, because of enemy wards. Night time is good because wards expire at the 6min mark. That's why the 6min rune is essential to a mid hero. It usually denotes the time where you start upping the tempo because wards are gone.

Without wards you can gank pretty much any time,if there's a ward, its pretty hard to gank without smoke.

Another good thing to do is counter ward as mid. If i am a QOP, i WILL buy a early gem just to get rid of the wards(Tread+Bottle+wand into Gem) so that they have to live in the dark. If not, sentry and kill those rune wards so you can enter the enemy lanes.
Mew Mew Pew Pew
zeehar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)3804 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 06:08:36
March 18 2013 06:08 GMT
#7316
another weaver question, but when playing as a solo off weaver, you're getting OK but not great farm, definitely not enough to get radiance at 20min ish after tranq stick aquila. team is average pub team comp. what do you get? drums? diffusal? someone mentioned a crystalis?
I AM THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
March 18 2013 06:47 GMT
#7317
The reason weaver gets linkens isnt just for the regen, its so you dont die. If you're getting ganked after someone casts the spell that breaks it just shukuchi or time lapse away. With urn tranquils aquila whatever you're squishy as fuck and if you participate in early fights and they have a ward down youre going to be the top priority..

It depends on what role you're playing though. Offlane weaver vs a trilane I generally go tranquil aquila wand medallion since it increases my dps dramatically in early engagements. VS a dual lane or when i have good farm (1v1 or 1v0) i go linken and just split push the whole game since im not going to die after i get it,

If im playing an average pub ill get linkens and afk split push the whole game and hope I can carry my team.
In Mushi we trust
Xxazn4lyfe51xX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States976 Posts
March 18 2013 06:49 GMT
#7318
Well depends on what you need to do with your weaver. If your team is somehow okay with you farming until the 50 minute mark, you could go linkins into whatever. But if you really do need to fight, then crystalis is okay, but I think i'd prefer a straight yasha. After which is you guys are doing okay you can build into a manta, or you can get a crit or something if you really do still need extra oomph in your fights. Not an expert on weaver though, so maybe someone else can give a better thought out answer.
maru~
Profile Joined February 2013
2345 Posts
March 18 2013 08:59 GMT
#7319
On March 18 2013 15:08 zeehar wrote:
another weaver question, but when playing as a solo off weaver, you're getting OK but not great farm, definitely not enough to get radiance at 20min ish after tranq stick aquila. team is average pub team comp. what do you get? drums? diffusal? someone mentioned a crystalis?

Urn Medallion into DPS or survivability depending on the game is a strong lowcost early-midgame build.
Shaella
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States14828 Posts
March 18 2013 09:10 GMT
#7320
On March 18 2013 15:08 zeehar wrote:
another weaver question, but when playing as a solo off weaver, you're getting OK but not great farm, definitely not enough to get radiance at 20min ish after tranq stick aquila. team is average pub team comp. what do you get? drums? diffusal? someone mentioned a crystalis?

Medallion is great, I don't like Crystalis as your base damage won't be enough to make the crits matter a ton

Drums are always good, I actually suggest Deso. It works alongside gemintate, makes you push faster, and with all that -armor people melt
don't tell me to provide a legend for those charts cause we already got shaella in this thread - eieio | Bulba is my waifu
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