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How does dust work? If an invisible hero (lets say riki), leaves the radius of the dust do they become invisible again? Or if they're within the radius when the dust is used, do they stay visible for the duration (even if they leave the area)?
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Dust doesn't have a radius of vision, only radius on usage. Once it's on a hero, it's on a hero. It ends after the duration is over. You can purge it off with some things like Manta or Diffusal (or Slark's Dark Pact), but other than that, it's on you no matter where you go until the duration is over. Which is why you see it taken over sentries a lot of times for aggressively trying to kill someone who has invis.
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if anybody who is caught in the dust aoe, they will stay visible until the duration of the debuff runs out (or until they purge it with something)
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why do most pros max orb first when playing puck? the silence damage scales exactly the same with the added bonus of increased silence duration.
the only reason i can think of is that putting yourself in close to use silence is a bit riskier.
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both builds are pretty common
but in mid it's safer to spam orb than silence to clear creeps
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On March 09 2013 07:17 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 15:31 Discarder wrote:
Can anybody out there create a competitive guide for mortred phantom assassin? She is the hero I enjoy so much to play in pubs because I can be aggressive at level 1-2 but can also become unstoppable in the lategame. Unfortunately, she has so many glaring weakness. Its so easy to counter her. I want some help in getting a solid and refined build.
Currently I'm using only 1 build order:
core: ring of health-boots- (battlefury rush)
20 min-25min = battlefury, threads, bkb, demon edge/satanic.
bonus story: I first picked her yesterday and the opponent picked every possible hero to counter her. Doom, Tiny, Warlock, Storm spirit and Spirit Breaker. At level 1, me and my lanemate pudge harassed the hell out of tiny before he can level up his skills. I had pudge with me in the lane and he traded with the two heroes and bought me time to get my battlefury early. In spite of this, my team of kunkka, necro, pudge and rexxar are constantly losing in team fights. The opponent's deathball was relentless in pushing us but I was able to get my bkb and cut them all to pieces while defending our last two towers...... it was a great game because I wasn't expecting to win with their lineup.
TLDR: I want to know if it is ok to go battlefury every game or will a time come where a bkb will come first? I prefer to be pro-active in building my items because being reactive defeats the purpose of being mortred. Also curious if this can work in in house games with all the right support heroes. I personally think going hard lategame carry with Bfury first is using Mortreds against her own skillset. She excels at ganking and kinda lacks teamfight ability. Especially compared to a hardcarry like faceless void, who really excels in teamfighting. Vlads/Orb of Venom/Maelstrom gives much smoother transitions(especially laning power with basilius) and the majority of the items can be bought from the sideshop. 2 gripes I have with Battlefury are that the 150% mana regen is wasted on her and that a random crit can reduce the whole creep wave into low hp region so they get killed by your creepwave, ruining your lasthits. Competitive teamfights are far from clustered enough so you can cleave a crit to a second enemy, leave alone cleave the whole team. Exceptions are of course Magnus, Dark Seer Enigma and the like which have spells that cluster people up. If you are drafting that kind of lineup, than Sven is the superior choice as carry. So in short, PA has very bad laning which can be helped a bit by a basilius and a stout shield and is actually a way better ganker than similar looking heroes since she has very short cooldowns and low mana costs on her spells. Building her towards things that other carries do much better defeats the purpose of picking her, so build her towards her strength.
Thanks, I will definitely try this out. Looks much easier to do.
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On March 11 2013 12:42 McTeazy wrote:
why do most pros max orb first when playing puck? the silence damage scales exactly the same with the added bonus of increased silence duration.
the only reason i can think of is that putting yourself in close to use silence is a bit riskier.
That's pretty much exactly the reason, though a lot of people do max silence first after a couple levels of orb depending on what's going on. I know Korok has been going 2 levels into orb, then maxing silence in some games lately if it's against a lineup that is weak to the silence in some way (like blink/invis heroes that can escape a gank).
You want at least a few levels of orb first though because it's a lot easier to harass and cs and stuff to win your lane when you're 1v1 mid. And if the 3 second silence early on isn't going to make that much of a difference on ganks and stuff anyway, then you might as well max orb first because it's a lot safer of a way to deal damage.
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United States14828 Posts
On March 09 2013 07:17 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2013 15:31 Discarder wrote:
Can anybody out there create a competitive guide for mortred phantom assassin? She is the hero I enjoy so much to play in pubs because I can be aggressive at level 1-2 but can also become unstoppable in the lategame. Unfortunately, she has so many glaring weakness. Its so easy to counter her. I want some help in getting a solid and refined build.
Currently I'm using only 1 build order:
core: ring of health-boots- (battlefury rush)
20 min-25min = battlefury, threads, bkb, demon edge/satanic.
bonus story: I first picked her yesterday and the opponent picked every possible hero to counter her. Doom, Tiny, Warlock, Storm spirit and Spirit Breaker. At level 1, me and my lanemate pudge harassed the hell out of tiny before he can level up his skills. I had pudge with me in the lane and he traded with the two heroes and bought me time to get my battlefury early. In spite of this, my team of kunkka, necro, pudge and rexxar are constantly losing in team fights. The opponent's deathball was relentless in pushing us but I was able to get my bkb and cut them all to pieces while defending our last two towers...... it was a great game because I wasn't expecting to win with their lineup.
TLDR: I want to know if it is ok to go battlefury every game or will a time come where a bkb will come first? I prefer to be pro-active in building my items because being reactive defeats the purpose of being mortred. Also curious if this can work in in house games with all the right support heroes. I personally think going hard lategame carry with Bfury first is using Mortreds against her own skillset. She excels at ganking and kinda lacks teamfight ability. Especially compared to a hardcarry like faceless void, who really excels in teamfighting. Vlads/Orb of Venom/Maelstrom gives much smoother transitions(especially laning power with basilius) and the majority of the items can be bought from the sideshop. 2 gripes I have with Battlefury are that the 150% mana regen is wasted on her and that a random crit can reduce the whole creep wave into low hp region so they get killed by your creepwave, ruining your lasthits. Competitive teamfights are far from clustered enough so you can cleave a crit to a second enemy, leave alone cleave the whole team. Exceptions are of course Magnus, Dark Seer Enigma and the like which have spells that cluster people up. If you are drafting that kind of lineup, than Sven is the superior choice as carry. So in short, PA has very bad laning which can be helped a bit by a basilius and a stout shield and is actually a way better ganker than similar looking heroes since she has very short cooldowns and low mana costs on her spells. Building her towards things that other carries do much better defeats the purpose of picking her, so build her towards her strength.
Interesting way to play mort. Probably worth a shot. Go into extra aggression with a basher maybe?
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United States47024 Posts
On March 11 2013 12:42 McTeazy wrote:
the only reason i can think of is that putting yourself in close to use silence is a bit riskier.
That's exactly why. You use orb to harass and clear creep waves. You can't do the same with rift because doing that means you have to put yourself next to them.
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On March 11 2013 14:39 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2013 07:17 Mataza wrote:On March 08 2013 15:31 Discarder wrote:
Can anybody out there create a competitive guide for mortred phantom assassin? She is the hero I enjoy so much to play in pubs because I can be aggressive at level 1-2 but can also become unstoppable in the lategame. Unfortunately, she has so many glaring weakness. Its so easy to counter her. I want some help in getting a solid and refined build.
Currently I'm using only 1 build order:
core: ring of health-boots- (battlefury rush)
20 min-25min = battlefury, threads, bkb, demon edge/satanic.
bonus story: I first picked her yesterday and the opponent picked every possible hero to counter her. Doom, Tiny, Warlock, Storm spirit and Spirit Breaker. At level 1, me and my lanemate pudge harassed the hell out of tiny before he can level up his skills. I had pudge with me in the lane and he traded with the two heroes and bought me time to get my battlefury early. In spite of this, my team of kunkka, necro, pudge and rexxar are constantly losing in team fights. The opponent's deathball was relentless in pushing us but I was able to get my bkb and cut them all to pieces while defending our last two towers...... it was a great game because I wasn't expecting to win with their lineup.
TLDR: I want to know if it is ok to go battlefury every game or will a time come where a bkb will come first? I prefer to be pro-active in building my items because being reactive defeats the purpose of being mortred. Also curious if this can work in in house games with all the right support heroes. I personally think going hard lategame carry with Bfury first is using Mortreds against her own skillset. She excels at ganking and kinda lacks teamfight ability. Especially compared to a hardcarry like faceless void, who really excels in teamfighting. Vlads/Orb of Venom/Maelstrom gives much smoother transitions(especially laning power with basilius) and the majority of the items can be bought from the sideshop. 2 gripes I have with Battlefury are that the 150% mana regen is wasted on her and that a random crit can reduce the whole creep wave into low hp region so they get killed by your creepwave, ruining your lasthits. Competitive teamfights are far from clustered enough so you can cleave a crit to a second enemy, leave alone cleave the whole team. Exceptions are of course Magnus, Dark Seer Enigma and the like which have spells that cluster people up. If you are drafting that kind of lineup, than Sven is the superior choice as carry. So in short, PA has very bad laning which can be helped a bit by a basilius and a stout shield and is actually a way better ganker than similar looking heroes since she has very short cooldowns and low mana costs on her spells. Building her towards things that other carries do much better defeats the purpose of picking her, so build her towards her strength. Interesting way to play mort. Probably worth a shot. Go into extra aggression with a basher maybe?
Actually I would say BKB. His item build is extremely good, Vlad>OOV>Maelstrom....but since it's a right click hero,it's weakness is still stuns. PA is a hero that does extremely well with only 1 damage item due to it's crit. After BKB i would definitely go Basher-> Abyssal. It's one of the best heroes to use a abyssal on.
Oh what do you guys think of Armlet. I was in this game where the PA on my team went armlet and was owning, with the extra hp/dmg/armor. Armlet PA seems to be legit.
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United States14828 Posts
On March 12 2013 10:54 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2013 14:39 Shaella wrote:On March 09 2013 07:17 Mataza wrote:On March 08 2013 15:31 Discarder wrote:
Can anybody out there create a competitive guide for mortred phantom assassin? She is the hero I enjoy so much to play in pubs because I can be aggressive at level 1-2 but can also become unstoppable in the lategame. Unfortunately, she has so many glaring weakness. Its so easy to counter her. I want some help in getting a solid and refined build.
Currently I'm using only 1 build order:
core: ring of health-boots- (battlefury rush)
20 min-25min = battlefury, threads, bkb, demon edge/satanic.
bonus story: I first picked her yesterday and the opponent picked every possible hero to counter her. Doom, Tiny, Warlock, Storm spirit and Spirit Breaker. At level 1, me and my lanemate pudge harassed the hell out of tiny before he can level up his skills. I had pudge with me in the lane and he traded with the two heroes and bought me time to get my battlefury early. In spite of this, my team of kunkka, necro, pudge and rexxar are constantly losing in team fights. The opponent's deathball was relentless in pushing us but I was able to get my bkb and cut them all to pieces while defending our last two towers...... it was a great game because I wasn't expecting to win with their lineup.
TLDR: I want to know if it is ok to go battlefury every game or will a time come where a bkb will come first? I prefer to be pro-active in building my items because being reactive defeats the purpose of being mortred. Also curious if this can work in in house games with all the right support heroes. I personally think going hard lategame carry with Bfury first is using Mortreds against her own skillset. She excels at ganking and kinda lacks teamfight ability. Especially compared to a hardcarry like faceless void, who really excels in teamfighting. Vlads/Orb of Venom/Maelstrom gives much smoother transitions(especially laning power with basilius) and the majority of the items can be bought from the sideshop. 2 gripes I have with Battlefury are that the 150% mana regen is wasted on her and that a random crit can reduce the whole creep wave into low hp region so they get killed by your creepwave, ruining your lasthits. Competitive teamfights are far from clustered enough so you can cleave a crit to a second enemy, leave alone cleave the whole team. Exceptions are of course Magnus, Dark Seer Enigma and the like which have spells that cluster people up. If you are drafting that kind of lineup, than Sven is the superior choice as carry. So in short, PA has very bad laning which can be helped a bit by a basilius and a stout shield and is actually a way better ganker than similar looking heroes since she has very short cooldowns and low mana costs on her spells. Building her towards things that other carries do much better defeats the purpose of picking her, so build her towards her strength. Interesting way to play mort. Probably worth a shot. Go into extra aggression with a basher maybe? Actually I would say BKB. His item build is extremely good, Vlad>OOV>Maelstrom....but since it's a right click hero,it's weakness is still stuns. PA is a hero that does extremely well with only 1 damage item due to it's crit. After BKB i would definitely go Basher-> Abyssal. It's one of the best heroes to use a abyssal on. Oh what do you guys think of Armlet. I was in this game where the PA on my team went armlet and was owning, with the extra hp/dmg/armor. Armlet PA seems to be legit.
I've heard of it before. Like, its obviously not as insane as it is on a STR hero, but there's no reason it shouldn't work
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On March 12 2013 10:59 Shaella wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2013 10:54 Mithhaike wrote:On March 11 2013 14:39 Shaella wrote:On March 09 2013 07:17 Mataza wrote:On March 08 2013 15:31 Discarder wrote:
Can anybody out there create a competitive guide for mortred phantom assassin? She is the hero I enjoy so much to play in pubs because I can be aggressive at level 1-2 but can also become unstoppable in the lategame. Unfortunately, she has so many glaring weakness. Its so easy to counter her. I want some help in getting a solid and refined build.
Currently I'm using only 1 build order:
core: ring of health-boots- (battlefury rush)
20 min-25min = battlefury, threads, bkb, demon edge/satanic.
bonus story: I first picked her yesterday and the opponent picked every possible hero to counter her. Doom, Tiny, Warlock, Storm spirit and Spirit Breaker. At level 1, me and my lanemate pudge harassed the hell out of tiny before he can level up his skills. I had pudge with me in the lane and he traded with the two heroes and bought me time to get my battlefury early. In spite of this, my team of kunkka, necro, pudge and rexxar are constantly losing in team fights. The opponent's deathball was relentless in pushing us but I was able to get my bkb and cut them all to pieces while defending our last two towers...... it was a great game because I wasn't expecting to win with their lineup.
TLDR: I want to know if it is ok to go battlefury every game or will a time come where a bkb will come first? I prefer to be pro-active in building my items because being reactive defeats the purpose of being mortred. Also curious if this can work in in house games with all the right support heroes. I personally think going hard lategame carry with Bfury first is using Mortreds against her own skillset. She excels at ganking and kinda lacks teamfight ability. Especially compared to a hardcarry like faceless void, who really excels in teamfighting. Vlads/Orb of Venom/Maelstrom gives much smoother transitions(especially laning power with basilius) and the majority of the items can be bought from the sideshop. 2 gripes I have with Battlefury are that the 150% mana regen is wasted on her and that a random crit can reduce the whole creep wave into low hp region so they get killed by your creepwave, ruining your lasthits. Competitive teamfights are far from clustered enough so you can cleave a crit to a second enemy, leave alone cleave the whole team. Exceptions are of course Magnus, Dark Seer Enigma and the like which have spells that cluster people up. If you are drafting that kind of lineup, than Sven is the superior choice as carry. So in short, PA has very bad laning which can be helped a bit by a basilius and a stout shield and is actually a way better ganker than similar looking heroes since she has very short cooldowns and low mana costs on her spells. Building her towards things that other carries do much better defeats the purpose of picking her, so build her towards her strength. Interesting way to play mort. Probably worth a shot. Go into extra aggression with a basher maybe? Actually I would say BKB. His item build is extremely good, Vlad>OOV>Maelstrom....but since it's a right click hero,it's weakness is still stuns. PA is a hero that does extremely well with only 1 damage item due to it's crit. After BKB i would definitely go Basher-> Abyssal. It's one of the best heroes to use a abyssal on. Oh what do you guys think of Armlet. I was in this game where the PA on my team went armlet and was owning, with the extra hp/dmg/armor. Armlet PA seems to be legit. I've heard of it before. Like, its obviously not as insane as it is on a STR hero, but there's no reason it shouldn't work
Armlet is just an awkward item on heroes that don't have innate sustain. If you use it to farm then you won't have any hitpoints left to fight.
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When I TP using NP's skill, can the enemy team see it or get notified like how wisp's warp in works?
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Yes, I believe there's an indicator on the minimap as well as on the map itself.
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If you were to give me one default build for a pure right click Agility carry for both melee and ranged, what would they be?
For Melee: characters like anti-mage, void, spectre, riki, etc
I've been going (usually)
3 branches, 1 tango, 1 salve, 1 stout shield
Get a quick quelling blade - > boots - > Wand
Treads
Quick Battlefury after treads (on every character except riki, which I first get diffusal, ethen go into BF): Here I head into the jungle, and hardly ever come out for anything but a team fight I know we have won for quick gold, otherwise...
Eaglesong>Butterfly>Manta>Skullbasher
From here I have 4 big items, boots and a TP scroll, I upgrade skullbasher and if I"m really fed after this point I consider dumping Battlefury for something else, but I usually never get to that point
Ranged: (Characters like Morphling, Drow, Luna, Sniper, Troll, gyro, klinkz, etc)
3 branch, 1 tango, 1 salve and either quelling or ring (depending on how unconfident I am in getting last hits)
From here I generally go
Boots>Aquila
Treads
From here I straight build into an eaglesong which goes to a butterfly on every hero except morphling (gets turned into ethereal)
After this I go
Yasha>Manta>Crysallis>Deadelus>Sange and Yasha or Eye of skadi
I feel lik emost of the time my build/strategy is OK as a melee, but I feel like I'm so powerless for the longest time as a ranged carry, and even when I do get my first big item, I don't know what to do most of the time, because I don't have the cleave to go into the jungle with to clear really fast. I usually end up going to the jungle anyway, but I feel like I'm just farming that much slower than a melee character would. I've heard some people say to get a helm of the dominator and send a troll warlord or something to stack the ancient camp and head over there when there's a three stack, but I haven't gotten this to quite work yet.
Thanks for the thlep
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it depends very heavily on the hero and on the game, but for now just follow the recommended build order it's good enough
also manta isn't that good as a dps item, yasha is nice but often it isn't worth it to upgrade right away
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On March 12 2013 17:13 Arisen wrote:
If you were to give me one default build for a pure right click Agility carry for both melee and ranged, what would they be? [...]
The worst thing you can possibly do in DOTA is putting yourself into a default build kind of mentality, especially across multiple heroes. You can't go Battlefury every game on any melee or anything like that, that's going to cost you a lot of games. Eaglesong/Butterfly are very cost inefficient, and are usually picked up as a 3rd / 4th item. You generally want to have cost-efficient items in the early game, and slot-efficient items in the lategame.
Say, Clinkz and Drow are both ranged carries but they have completely different roles and playstyles and require completely different items. Clinkz gets a fast Orchid and tries to pick people off, making everyone scared to split from their team, Drow is a midgame pushing kind of hero who peaks very early, Luna is a great teamfighter once she farms a BKB and she's a fast pusher as well, as well as a great farmer thanks to Glaive.
There is no default behavior, what you want to do as a carry is mostly farming and showing up in fights, or take towers alone if that doesn't cost you something else across the map, but each hero does it differently. Pushing a lane while your team is gathering somewhere else has completely different implications if you are Spectre as opposed to, say, Void or PA. Also some heroes aren't meant to just farm the jungle over and over, that's why you feel so weak when you use a farming build on them.
You should select a few heroes and look up builds for each of 'em, and learn them individually.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Everything else aside, never ever go for a quelling blade on ranged heroes. You're paying 220 gold for 12% damage and that simply isn't worth it. Most of the time you should definitely go for the ring of protection instead as you can convert that into either a ring of aquila or tranquil boots. On some heroes with particularly low base attack damage like sniper or shadowfiend you may want to go for a slippers of ability at the start instead just to help you last hit better.
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On March 12 2013 15:14 mizU wrote:
Yes, I believe there's an indicator on the minimap as well as on the map itself.
Huh? I'm pretty sure there's only the "growing tree" on the map itself, but no minimap indicator as with wisp's ult, especially nothing visible through fog of war.
Also about quelling blade on ranged heroes: a +3 primary stats item and 1 branch should give you almost the same bonus damage and are far more useful in the early game.
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EPT
