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Denmark14978 Posts
If an enemy tries to trade blows with an orb-walker, they'll tank creeps, you wont. This is HUGE. And the 50 longer range, as mentioned. Also in lane against 99% of enemies it's 15 HP cost to remove 21 hp from the enemy. It's almost 33% more damage dealt to enemy compared to yourself. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
Another example to not play dota based off numbers and math alone! Edit: in regards to the skill build, i see smart players going level one passive based off the reasoning above aka you aren't gonna trade successfully if a range or two range are in your lane as well as the passive giving you consistent damage instead of slow damage over time. Its more 'burstlike' damage and its worth the 50 range tradeoff in most cases. 1 in spear at lvl 2, max passive then heal. | ||
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Denmark14978 Posts
On January 08 2013 02:28 Ack1027 wrote: Huskar spears don't remove15 hp to do 21 damage on 99% of heroes. Spears have a cost of 15 hp. They deal 4 damage every second for 7 seconds at level 1. This is 28 damage over 7 seconds, with 25% base magic resistance taking into consideration that turns into 21 damage for 15 hp cost, the 99% was a hyperbole because some heroes have ways to dodge some of the damage and some heroes can increase their magic resistance/resist some damage. On January 08 2013 02:28 Ack1027 wrote:And trading does not automatically put you on top. If you are orb-walking and they are not, yes. They will be tanking creeps while you wont, unless YOU mess up orb walkers has the advantage in trading blows in most circumstances. On January 08 2013 02:28 Ack1027 wrote:Any range hero at 550+ range [even 500 with good ping] can clown your orb walking trade attempts. They'll be aggroing creeps if they try to fight back and they'll be standing still to shoot at you allowing you to fire a shot, difference is, you wont be taking creep aggro. On January 08 2013 02:28 Ack1027 wrote:As long as the mechanic that allows range to hit you without aggroing creeps exists in the game you can't say huskar can trade with them. But he can, that only lasts for a limited amount of time(2 seconds), they can't avoid getting creep aggro as well as an orb walker can(An orb walker doesn't have to ever draw creep aggro onto himself). On January 08 2013 02:28 Ack1027 wrote:This is also ignoring melees with burst nukes who can get you low enough to run past your spear harass and try to kill you when you're low enough and your cds are up. There are heroes that beat others in lane? YOU DON'T SAY. And way to entirely miss the point i was trying to make, huskar isn't a strong 1v1 laner at all, but not getting burning spears at all or saying that you need to get it to level 2 for it to be worth it is just silly, one point in burning spear is worth it due to orb-walking being a very valuable thing to be able to do, and leveling it up isn't worth it because his other skills are more useful and he needs lifesteal for actually fighting enemies anyway. | ||
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34504 Posts
On January 08 2013 03:01 Avril_Lavigne wrote: I don't know if there's a fix this problem and it's more probably my issue specifically but I'm a terran player and sometimes i make the mistake of pressing "S" on my scvs which commands to stop mining but at the same time "S" key is the same key to make an scv so it just bugs me when i'm playing and making that stupid mistake. Consequently i took out the "S/Stop" command from the scvs which pretty much solved my issue yet a different issue emerged. having done that, all of my units including my marines tanks etc no longer have the "S" command as removing the "stop command" hotkey removes it from ALL units not just the SCVs, could there be a way around this? You're in the Dota section mate ~ | ||
pigscanfly
Singapore147 Posts
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3Y3S
Canada177 Posts
On January 08 2013 03:13 pigscanfly wrote: Which Orb effects go through BKB? I know mana burn doesn't, but if i'm not wrong Maim does? Not 100% sure about this, but i believe Skadi's slow might work. Feedback doesnt, OD and Silencer orbs cant be targeted, Impetus can be targeted but deals no extra damage, Ursa's orb goes through it, Frost arrows is dispelled by bkb, Searing arrows cant be applied too ( i think searing is a buff though not sure). | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
Your math and accusing me of not getting the point are hilarious btw. My problem was with the 99% part. It doesn't do that much damage to 99% of heroes. THAT'S the point. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On January 08 2013 03:27 Ack1027 wrote: So then what was your point. Like what does that post even do. We agree that he's not the best 1v1er and he should get 1 level of orb. We even agree on the skill build. The remainder of your post is hyperbole as you say. If you really think huskar trades evenly with someone who has greater range we can play it out or you can remain ignorant. You went from 99%= of heroes to 'most heroes'. My point was exactly that, that one point in orb is more than worth it. And yes i went from 99% to most heroes because it was a fucking hyperbole, as i already stated, i assumed that would be obvious to people, like when someone says "Damn, this is taking forever" obviously it isn't actually forever. And huskar can most definitely trade with heroes that have 500 and 550 range. That's not remaining ignorant. Edit: Apparently you don't understand what a hyperbole is, here i'll link you to the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole My math is correct, it does deal 21 damage for 15 hp considering that all heroes have 25% base magic resistance. Which is why i pointed out by not saying 100% that there are indeed heroes that can reduce/avoid it, but they are a minority. And i even specifically pointed out that it was in lane, as a lot of the abilities that can reduce/avoid it wont be gotten in the laning phase (Like flesh heap which will be maxed last). | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
http://www.dota2wiki.com/wiki/Attack_range The majority of those heroes 500 range and above can trade with huskar in laning phase so I'm not sure what you're even saying anymore. Remember you said trade and come out on top IF you don't mess up. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
My preferred build so far is to start with 1 tango, 1 salve, 3 gg branches, and a shield on the bear. I then go for 1 hand of midas on the bear, followed up by boots for both (treads on LD, Phase on bear) and then go for mjolnir or radiance depending on what the team needs. I have two issues though. 1) Should I just man up and get the second hand of midas to really get my farm going? 2) What items should I get after my first big item? Should I get them for the bear or for druid? | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:04 leloup wrote: I just started playing syllabear recently. He's a lot of fun and I've enjoyed laning him when solo, however I'm having an issue. My preferred build so far is to start with 1 tango, 1 salve, 3 gg branches, and a shield on the bear. I then go for 1 hand of midas on the bear, followed up by boots for both (treads on LD, Phase on bear) and then go for mjolnir or radiance depending on what the team needs. I have two issues though. 1) Should I just man up and get the second hand of midas to really get my farm going? 2) What items should I get after my first big item? Should I get them for the bear or for druid? I don't play a lot of sylla, but at this point, I've played every hero 100x, so here's what I think. 1) It really bothers me when people try to go 2x Midas. You don't have time for this and neither does your team (waiting for you to farm). If you're not farming fast enough, it's really just a matter of practice, not a matter of needing another Midas. I've played with people that have played WELL over 1000 games and still just absolutely suck at farming. I think of it like skateboarding, even though I've never been a skateboarder, lol. I always have a line I'm following on the map for maximum farm. It's always changing though depending on where the enemies and my teammates are. 2) I know you're trying to be flexible for your team, and that's great, but with sylla, until you get realllly good with radiance, I would just always get radiance. It's too good on sylla. And, if you can get it really quickly, it's a game winner. Like I said, don't bother with another Midas. Just go push towers. Last hits on towers will net you the cash you need, and will give your teammates the map they need, to win the game. (Dota is similar to Chess or Starcraft, where map control is very important. He who owns the map gets to make the decisions.) Oh, and to your very last question. You can have treads on your hero, but you pretty much want all your other items on your bear until maybe mega late game when your bear just can't hold up any longer. (I'm talking 70+ minutes). Every hero is versatile, and sylla is especially so, so play him how you want! #1 way to improve though is to farm faster faster faster. (Don't miss last hits, ever!) edit: I just realized people are probably going to argue this one with me, but I regularly play at all levels because of different friends, and the easiest difference the noobs, and even people that think they're good, could make in their play is to stop missing last hits. Strategy is hard, you're facing human opponents, afterall, but last-hitting is easy. So do it.  edit2: re-read your questions. I highly suggest getting an assault cuirass after your radiance. A mjollnir after that is great too. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:04 leloup wrote: I just started playing syllabear recently. He's a lot of fun and I've enjoyed laning him when solo, however I'm having an issue. My preferred build so far is to start with 1 tango, 1 salve, 3 gg branches, and a shield on the bear. I then go for 1 hand of midas on the bear, followed up by boots for both (treads on LD, Phase on bear) and then go for mjolnir or radiance depending on what the team needs. I have two issues though. 1) Should I just man up and get the second hand of midas to really get my farm going? 2) What items should I get after my first big item? Should I get them for the bear or for druid? Tranquil would be better on sylla, don't forget to switch the midas to your hero as you don't get the xp when the bear uses it. Also radiance -> AC. If you're having trouble, the platemail first on your hero. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:04 leloup wrote: I just started playing syllabear recently. He's a lot of fun and I've enjoyed laning him when solo, however I'm having an issue. My preferred build so far is to start with 1 tango, 1 salve, 3 gg branches, and a shield on the bear. I then go for 1 hand of midas on the bear, followed up by boots for both (treads on LD, Phase on bear) and then go for mjolnir or radiance depending on what the team needs. I have two issues though. 1) Should I just man up and get the second hand of midas to really get my farm going? 2) What items should I get after my first big item? Should I get them for the bear or for druid? Your starting build is pretty standard and fine. My only other suggestion here is that an early orb of venom pickup is disgustingly good for your bear. 12% slow for 275 gold is pretty devastating. Tranquil boots are also a good and cheap alternative over power treads for your main hero and basically allow you to never have to return home. Late game they can be disassembled for vlads and BoTs. Getting double midas on lone druid is really pushing it and not advisable. Although it's often joked that he's the hardest carry in the game with 12 item slots, lone druid is far more punishing when the team uses his big item pick ups for "timing pushes". Think of it this way, 2 midas' are worth 3800 gold, which is basically your relic money. A lone druid with radiance at 17-20 minutes is far more difficult to deal with than a lone druid with double midas and working towards bigger items. Although your spirit bear is strong for a large portion of the early-mid game, eventually it will start to feel rather squishier as the opposition picks up levels and items. So generally after radiance/maelstorm, you want items that adds survivability to both your hero and the bear. AC is a particularly good, and other situational alternatives are vlads, pipe etc. You should start to think about your hero more when you start to feel your bear is dying too quickly even with AC etc, but games will rarely reach this point anyways. Edit: If you decide to go down the Mjolnir path, you don't have to finish maelstorm straight away. Maelstorm is incredibly damage-cost efficient by itself, and completing an AC first/earlier is incredibly beneficial for both you and your team. Alternatively, you can complete the mjolnir, then disassemble for an AC. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Even on the common Midas carriers like Furion or Lifestealer, I would suggest learning the heroes without buying Midas. | ||
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InfectedGoat
Canada444 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 08 2013 06:58 InfectedGoat wrote: Can you still jungle with lycan at level 1? if so how and which items do you buy? Stout+regen+branches->Bottle-Crow or Tranquils You basically have to tank for your Wolves. Also, since their mana cost went up and since you can't Clarity anymore, you basically have to either accept that you're not going to be able to cast Wolves every CD, or Bottle-Crow, which slows down your Vlad's/Medallion. | ||
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Baggage
Hong Kong593 Posts
Stout Shield, Ring of Protection, tangoes, salve, clarities Then got RoB/Tranquil Boots disassemble trick into Vlads, Medallion. Basically you want to tank the creeps and let your wolves to the damage dealing. His wolves are incredibly paper, so you have to be careful when microing them. That being said, I haven't tried him since his (slight) buffs in 6.77. Edit: Reading TheYango's post, getting clarities does seem silly now. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On January 08 2013 03:56 Ack1027 wrote: What does your trading example even mean....like are the opposing heros not allowed to use skills? Are you talking about fantasy land theorycraft dota where its only auto and orb attacks allowed? You say he isn't good 1v1 but he comes out on top of most tradeoffs. So which is it? Since when was being able to trade blows equal with being good at 1v1? Trading blows mean one very simple things, you deal more damage than you recieve when exchanging auto attacks, orb walkers come out of top due to zero creep aggro. Doesn't mean they win match-ups automatically at all, doesn't mean that they win any lane at all. Because many heroes don't need to trade blows with them at all or will punish them in a different way by using spells for example. Like you pointed out yourself, a melee hero like dragon knight isn't going to lose his lane because huskar can win in terms of exchanging auto-attacks, DK has both a good nuke an insane regen and armor the later the lane goes. I NEVER said huskar was a good 1v1 hero or that he wins 1v1 match-ups, i said that him and other orb-walkers come out on top as far as pure auto attack exchanges in the laning phase since they can ignore creep-aggro which is pretty big for trading auto attacks. So no, it's not about others not being able to use skills or theorycraft land, it's just what i said, trading blows, attacking eachother and nothing else.(A blow is a synonym for a hard hit). Edit: And with that i'm done with this debate. | ||
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