On December 26 2012 03:49 Firebolt145 wrote: Icefrog did change stout shield though; it used to be 300g iirc, there used to be no PMS so it would primarily be for a vanguard, etc etc...
That's why I said "since 6.60"--that's when the price change happened, and when PMS was introduced.
It still took people years after that to start buying it on melees that want neither Vanguard nor PMS.
How do you get the most out of Manta? What spells/situations is it most effectively activated against/in? What all can it be used to dodge; ie what constitutes a "projectile"?
On December 26 2012 07:26 Nightmarjoo wrote: How do you get the most out of Manta? What spells/situations is it most effectively activated against/in? What all can it be used to dodge; ie what constitutes a "projectile"?
First off, manta is best on (obviously) agility carries who are building heavy stats. You probably know this already but if you didn't, your illusions only benefit from attributes (ie. agi, int and str) - NOT things like damage, attack speed, etc. So if you're building attack speed or damage items for your other big items, manta isn't very effective.
It's best used against non-AoE heavy teams - your illusions will die fast to pretty much any AoE, and especially against things like Earthshaker it can even make them do more damage. You want your illusions to live long enough to contribute to your DPS.
Projectiles are too many to list, but basically anything you see flying towards you that is targeted can be dodged with manta. Things like venge's stun, qop's shadow strike, CK's chaos bolt (though it's tricky because it's a fast projectile!)... you get the idea. One notable exception is Sven's stun though - it feels like a projectile but is actually an AoE that triggers when it gets close to the target, so even if you dodge it it will still explode on you, unless you manage to time your split-second of immunity pretty perfectly.
Also, of course, it's core on Antimage for a good reason - your illusions still get the full effect of mana burn, so not only do they do even more damage than most agi carries' illusions, they also synergize REALLY well with mana void even with only two or three hits each.
So my new years DotA resolution is to learn Meepo to an an above average level.
I got some simple questions though before I start:
- Could I charge the Poof of all 3 other meepos preemptively, and if timed right, use blink dagger to blink on top of a hero/team and the other meepo's come in instantly as well doing that damage? I kind of assumed that's the purpose of getting blink on him, but it seems like it requires a lot of finesse to pull off
- How long should I be in farm mode? I understand Meepo is a very experience related hero, but he also, from what I know, is a mid game oriented carry. Should I really just be farming for the first 17-19 minutes as I get my Mek/Blink and then start pushing/killing, or is it a I should be really farming the entire game? Basically I'm wondering if I should be playing Meepo as a semi-carry/pusher or a straight hard carry ricefest.
- What after Blink Dagger? More survival items? Since stats are now shared 100%, I feel like something like Heart might be good. On the other hand, something like Janggo would be pretty nifty as well since it gives really cost efficient stats + movement speed.
- The game has reached 50-60 minutes, teams are kind of at a standstill and it's really late game. What is my objective? What is my role in late game teamfights? Should I be initiating, or hanging back and poofing in once things are underway to pick people off?
- Any other tips and tricks in terms of bindings and ways I can practice this.
Sorry I don't know anything about Meepo, just wanted to say that a Dota 2 new years resolution is a great idea. I am definitely going to do this as well. Maybe something like not relying on my best hero.
On December 26 2012 16:18 Fruscainte wrote: So my new years DotA resolution is to learn Meepo to an an above average level.
I got some simple questions though before I start:
- Could I charge the Poof of all 3 other meepos preemptively, and if timed right, use blink dagger to blink on top of a hero/team and the other meepo's come in instantly as well doing that damage? I kind of assumed that's the purpose of getting blink on him, but it seems like it requires a lot of finesse to pull off
Yes, totally, and it's not that tricky to do in reality once you've practiced it a little bit. That being said, the combo is still nearly as effective if you blink first then poof, and also a lot simpler to get off.
- How long should I be in farm mode? I understand Meepo is a very experience related hero, but he also, from what I know, is a mid game oriented carry. Should I really just be farming for the first 17-19 minutes as I get my Mek/Blink and then start pushing/killing, or is it a I should be really farming the entire game? Basically I'm wondering if I should be playing Meepo as a semi-carry/pusher or a straight hard carry ricefest.
The truly great thing about Meepo is that you don't have to make that decision once you hit a certain point.
At level 11, if you're having a decent time in lane and controlling your jungle fairly well, you should be closing in on a 12-14 minute mek + blink, as well as having three Meepos. The thing about three Meepos is that two Meepos is enough poof power to clear the entire jungle in under a minute if done correctly, as well as still being able to do a bit of lane farming.
So with that extra Meepo you have, this is the time to be abusing your level advantage, which is starting to get HUGE at this point, by using your blink/poof combo to gank most people 1v1 or even 1v2 without much difficulty at all - all while keeping two Meepos in the jungle, farming and grinding xp for you so you can continue to push your level advantage all the way to the point where you're level 25 and everyone else is barely 16.
So to answer your question more concisely: Do both. You don't have to make the choice between having a major midgame impact and farming for the lategame - you have three heroes at this point, four later in the game. DO IT ALL.
- What after Blink Dagger? More survival items? Since stats are now shared 100%, I feel like something like Heart might be good. On the other hand, something like Janggo would be pretty nifty as well since it gives really cost efficient stats + movement speed.
My usual build for Meepo is mek, blink, scepter, eblade (or heart), heart (or eblade), then something like a skadi or butterfly as your final item.
After blink I usually go straight for my scepter because without it you can't take advantage of the true imba that is 100% stat sharing - I find myself pretty crippled early to midgame if I skip the blink or the mek, but don't want to delay my scepter any more than that because it's the point where Meepo becomes truly destructive.
With only the scepter and the mek your clones are pretty tanky by themselves, but if you feel you need more survivability, the fact that Meepo has five dudes whacking on people means that his natural DPS is incredibly good even without any true damage items. I like to go for eblade against teams that I feel can't do a massive amount of damage to me, as well as teams where I feel like I really want to instagib someone with some serious blink/eblade/poofing.
- The game has reached 50-60 minutes, teams are kind of at a standstill and it's really late game. What is my objective? What is my role in late game teamfights? Should I be initiating, or hanging back and poofing in once things are underway to pick people off?
Lategame, your role is mostly going to be a combo of initiator and carry - you're going to be one of the most farmed and leveled heroes on the map, if not THE most, and the chaos and damage caused by five Meepos showing up in the middle of the team is one of the best ways to start those lategame teamfights. You should have a heart at this point, which means Meepo Prime isn't in danger of being instantly wrecked if he poofs in, and your entry creates the space your team needs to make the magic happen in a teamfight. Also, a good chain net can be as strong as a ravage if you hit it correctly - even stronger in certain ways.
- Any other tips and tricks in terms of bindings and ways I can practice this.
The most helpful thing for me in terms of Meepo keybinds and practice has been to set my tenth control group to spacebar - I've gotten into the habit of always putting all units that I control on the spacebar and it seems like the most natural way to do it to me. If you have space as an item or something you can use 1-5 for your individual Meepos and 6 for all of them, but 6 is really awkward to reach and you can't afford to not have your Meepos individually hotkeyed.
Also, get used to checking your Meepo's healthbars on the portraits on the left, and figuring out quickly which one needs to be pulled back, finding his hotkey and dragging him away. I used to try to click my hurt Meepos and then it was stupidly hard so I got used to doing it that way instead, which is TONS easier for me at least.
If you want any more help with some Meepo stuff feel free to toss me a PM, this reply might not have been really fit for the simple q's thread but I love Meepo so much that I can't help but write an essay to every post I see about him =P
Shit man, don't worry about writing too much there, that helped a lot.
Yeah I'll throw in some bot games tomorrow and mess around with him in -wtf mode to practice the general micro and moving around and stuff. One thing I did want to ask though (finally, a simple question!) is Tranquils. Since the boots are shared, I feel like it might be a suitable replacement to Mek?
For Meepo I get tranquil aghs armlet treads (str mode on) vlads mek heart. Hopefully your team already has a mek by then and you won't need to get it yourself. If your team has a vlads by then too that's great also. The purpose is to give all the Meepos durability. Tranquil makes his laning and jungling go smoother. I think blink is a poor choice on him because it's 2k gold spent on something that makes him more vulnerable, rather than more durable. Yes blink + poofs is a good nuke, but if that's all you can do you're a poor carry. Early on you're too vulnerable to be an effective ganker, and should be using poof to farm the jungle rapidly. Even if you don't like the rest of the build I use, I think getting aghs before anything else is imperative. Even if you're trying to use him as a ganker instead of a full-blown carry aghs gives you another meepo to make your nuke stronger in addition to the increased durability given by 100% stats sharing.
On December 26 2012 17:02 Fruscainte wrote: Shit man, don't worry about writing too much there, that helped a lot.
Yeah I'll throw in some bot games tomorrow and mess around with him in -wtf mode to practice the general micro and moving around and stuff. One thing I did want to ask though (finally, a simple question!) is Tranquils. Since the boots are shared, I feel like it might be a suitable replacement to Mek?
Totally, especially if another hero is more suited to the mek on your team - you need the sustain for the jungle more than anything. I like to build mek on him anyways though - the thing about Meepo is that he can get a REALLY FAST mek, FAR faster than your offlane or even your mid is going to be able to, and that can really make great things happen both in his lane and elsewhere. It's up to you though - I like having a 9 minute mek because it just lets you both dive and push towers with a lot more freedom, and lets you be a bigger part of your team early on, freeing up supports to build other things that they need.
EDIT:
On December 26 2012 17:19 Nightmarjoo wrote: For Meepo I get tranquil aghs armlet treads (str mode on) vlads mek heart. Hopefully your team already has a mek by then and you won't need to get it yourself. If your team has a vlads by then too that's great also. The purpose is to give all the Meepos durability. Tranquil makes his laning and jungling go smoother. I think blink is a poor choice on him because it's 2k gold spent on something that makes him more vulnerable, rather than more durable. Yes blink + poofs is a good nuke, but if that's all you can do you're a poor carry. Early on you're too vulnerable to be an effective ganker, and should be using poof to farm the jungle rapidly. Even if you don't like the rest of the build I use, I think getting aghs before anything else is imperative. Even if you're trying to use him as a ganker instead of a full-blown carry aghs gives you another meepo to make your nuke stronger in addition to the increased durability given by 100% stats sharing.
Couple things about this - first off, why armlet? You get a lot of stats from armlet that your Meepos don't use - and most importantly, they can't use the active which is the best part of the item. Also, even Meepo Prime isn't a great armlet hero, at least how I see it.
Tranquils I totally agree with - already discussed.
The thing about blink is that in combination with mek especially (you can get them both by 12-14 minutes if you're decent in the jungle), both of those items come at a time when your level advantage is just starting to really show, and the mek gives you the survivability to use blink to its fullest potential. And you don't really give up a ton of your carrying power at all because you can still be farming the jungle as well as roaming and participating as a pusher, ganker and initator/dps in teamfights. Yes, Meepo's a pretty vulnerable hero, and I see why you don't like that feeling - but try it with mek and see how it goes. It also stretches your multitasking out which is fun =P
Lastly, yes aghs is great, but it's most effective at level 16 - and if you're farming well, you don't even have to get any kills at all to get a 20 minute aghs with mek and blink, right around the time you should be hitting level 16-17.
The best thing about Meepo is that he doesn't have to choose between being a hard carry, a ganker or a pusher - he can do all of them at different points in the game without compromising his ability to do the others.
Is there any way to find and sort replays by hero played? Looking for some TA and LD replays but it's a bit clunky just scrolling through lists. Thanks.
On December 27 2012 05:02 how2TL wrote: Is there any way to find and sort replays by hero played? Looking for some TA and LD replays but it's a bit clunky just scrolling through lists. Thanks.
You can search for heroes by name in the filter. If the name has a space it becomes an underscore instead.
Generally speaking you have to spend money to get access to the actual tournament replays. I made a list of pub games with pros playing every hero but it's from 6.75 so it's a little outdated and I really don't want to have to update it.
I'm not really sure what they are asking for though, is he asking how to sort through his own games or other people's games or?
EPT
