EPT>You have super high base strength and strength growth
>You now also have decent armor
Or
>Go eat wildkin
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 252
| Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy |
|
Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
>You have super high base strength and strength growth >You now also have decent armor Or >Go eat wildkin | ||
|
Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
| ||
|
Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
Loadsa regen for nearly free. | ||
|
Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
| ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2791 Posts
It's still +5/10 armor which he badly needs. I feel vanguard is good tho because he needs extra hp, the block is good early game when you get it and he already has amazing regeneration. With vanguard you basically don't need any other health items on doom. I never really understood how the bonus gold worked tho. Is it when you devour a creep? I counted and it didn't really seem to work all the time. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2012 00:26 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Just played Doom ac was really nice because the parts help you out a lot regardless if you get chainmail or platemail first. It's still +5/10 armor which he badly needs. I feel vanguard is good tho because he needs extra hp, the block is good early game when you get it and he already has amazing regeneration. With vanguard you basically don't need any other health items on doom. The thing is, Vanguard isn't cost-effective. There are a bunch of similarly costed routes of item development that have much higher overall efficiency than Vanguard does because after the nerfs, Vanguard's cost effectiveness just isn't that spectacular. On December 01 2012 00:26 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I never really understood how the bonus gold worked tho. Is it when you devour a creep? I counted and it didn't really seem to work all the time. After you devour a creep, there's a delay during which Doom is "digesting" the creep. You get the gold after that. | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2791 Posts
Ring of regen --> tranquil boots gives you healing for sure but phase boots are so good on doombringer. He really lacks autoattack damage at that part of the game and he moves like a pregnant cow. I just think the buildup feels pretty good for when the items come in time for vanguard. You get shield as a starting item because you are really squishy, the ring of health gives you massive lane presence and protection from harassment (again, the cow and no armor issue) and finally the booster gives +250 hp just in time for team fights (but probably after phase boots). | ||
|
Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
| ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2791 Posts
| ||
|
Aui_2000
Canada435 Posts
On November 30 2012 07:10 Sn0_Man wrote: For me, the main goal of WD is max maledict at 7. Stun/Maledict/Stun/Maledict/Maledict/Ult/Maledict is how I do it. This isn't a "carry" witch doctor, it is merely abusing his strongest ability. Of course, if it is clear from the outset that you won't be doing much fighting enemy heroes early, then Max stun with 1 in heal is decent. Levelling your heal doesn't make it much better IIRC, or at least doesn't make it any more efficient. WD is generally a dedicated 5 position so that means Wards/Courier/Flying Courier/More Wards/Sentries/Dust. Luxuries are bracers and mana boots  (and a point booster into aghanims if something really weird happens and maledict gets like 5 lasthits in 1 teamfight). Just as a contrast: When I play WD I go max stun 1 point heal completely skip maledict. This is done for two main reasons. 1) WD becomes one of the most tanky supports despite not having any items due to the extra stats and a heal that he now has the mana to consistantly use and 2) maledict usually requires WD to go really far out of position to use (cask is such a good spell that you'd want to max by 7 and by the time you hit 10--late because support--going out of position often means you die. I think that a 2nd cask is better than a 1-2 man maledict--really you should only be hitting 1 or 2). Also holy shit wd ult does a lot of damage even before aghs. That change to 0.25 bat was pretty significant. | ||
|
durecell
United Kingdom85 Posts
Also what's a good time for a support to pick up your first TP scroll? I normally go flying courier > boots (If I don't get boots early I end up feed) > wards > tp scroll. | ||
|
Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:12 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: What would be the alternate build? Ring of regen --> tranquil boots gives you healing for sure but phase boots are so good on doombringer. He really lacks autoattack damage at that part of the game and he moves like a pregnant cow. I just think the buildup feels pretty good for when the items come in time for vanguard. You get shield as a starting item because you are really squishy, the ring of health gives you massive lane presence and protection from harassment (again, the cow and no armor issue) and finally the booster gives +250 hp just in time for team fights (but probably after phase boots). It mainly stems from the fact that if you're getting tranquil boots you don't need the additional health regen from the ring. Vanguard isn't bad, but there are more cost efficient ways to spend that gold. If you really want the health from vit booster go ahead and buy one and turn it into a heart later or buy an ogre club that you can turn into a BKB (assuming you want to make one). Absorption quickly becomes a useless stat even though it is ridiculous early on in the game. You can keep your shield around until you need the item slot though. Doom's W ability (Hallowed ground maybe? super guess) gives you a movespeed boost. It has a pretty long cooldown so you need to be very careful about how you use it. With proper use, it should circumvent your need for phase boots. If you need damage before your radiance then you've run into the reason why Doom isn't played competitively. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:22 durecell wrote: What should you do on the hard lane vs pulling if it's 2v2? Whenever we try to mess with the support we get killed more often than not and if we don't then they come with a level advantage and kill us. Also what's a good time for a support to pick up your first TP scroll? I normally go flying courier > boots (If I don't get boots early I end up feed) > wards > tp scroll. You need to block it with a ward. If you can't do that or they de-ward it, you can still usually try to lasthit some of the creeps. Don't fight them unless you know you can win because they do have the creep advantage (remember creep AI swaps to attacking you if you attack an enemy hero close enough to them). | ||
|
Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:22 durecell wrote: What should you do on the hard lane vs pulling if it's 2v2? Whenever we try to mess with the support we get killed more often than not and if we don't then they come with a level advantage and kill us. Also what's a good time for a support to pick up your first TP scroll? I normally go flying courier > boots (If I don't get boots early I end up feed) > wards > tp scroll. Block the pull camp with a ward. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:12 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: What would be the alternate build? Ring of regen --> tranquil boots gives you healing for sure but phase boots are so good on doombringer. He really lacks autoattack damage at that part of the game and he moves like a pregnant cow. I just think the buildup feels pretty good for when the items come in time for vanguard. You get shield as a starting item because you are really squishy, the ring of health gives you massive lane presence and protection from harassment (again, the cow and no armor issue) and finally the booster gives +250 hp just in time for team fights (but probably after phase boots). Vit Booster + Hood + Stout (sell the Stout when you need space as it's primary usefulness is during laning) is a better use of the Vit Booster and Ring of Health--it's more expensive, but it's also significantly more cost-effective for overall survivability, and the Vit Booster and Hood can be made into end-game items, rather than just taking up a slot on a dead-end midgame item. Alternatively, if you don't feel the need for Hood (not enough magic damage to warrant it), just get Bottle + Vit Booster. Bottle-Crowing gives more effective regen than a Ring of Health, and also gives you much needed mana, all the while costing less gold to buy than a Ring of Health. | ||
|
Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:19 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Isn't ring of regen a part of tranquil recipe? I just meant to go for that item first. I would not want to lane doombringer without something that gives me regen early on. meant ring of health my bad :p | ||
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:20 Aui_2000 wrote: Just as a contrast: When I play WD I go max stun 1 point heal completely skip maledict. This is done for two main reasons. 1) WD becomes one of the most tanky supports despite not having any items due to the extra stats and a heal that he now has the mana to consistantly use and 2) maledict usually requires WD to go really far out of position to use (cask is such a good spell that you'd want to max by 7 and by the time you hit 10--late because support--going out of position often means you die. I think that a 2nd cask is better than a 1-2 man maledict--really you should only be hitting 1 or 2). Also holy shit wd ult does a lot of damage even before aghs. That change to 0.25 bat was pretty significant. Ouch, told by a pro. Well looks like I'm wrong XD. Thanks for tips Aui . I admit, Maledict would be a lot stronger if they buffed the range a bit. On December 01 2012 01:12 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: What would be the alternate build? Ring of regen --> tranquil boots gives you healing for sure but phase boots are so good on doombringer. He really lacks autoattack damage at that part of the game and he moves like a pregnant cow. I just think the buildup feels pretty good for when the items come in time for vanguard. You get shield as a starting item because you are really squishy, the ring of health gives you massive lane presence and protection from harassment (again, the cow and no armor issue) and finally the booster gives +250 hp just in time for team fights (but probably after phase boots). A) Tranquil boots are really, really fast boots. And cheap (975 for tranqs, 1325 for boots + RoH, 2225 for Phase + RoH). And give you armor to help any harass. And more regen than a RoH. And they are disassemblable so you can go for phase once you get out of the laning phase. B) If you are feeling like you MUST teamfight etc, vitbooster is exactly the same HP as vanguard, and can be built into a heart. Otherwise, try a quick Sange for MORE HP THAN VANGUARD, plus nice damage, and turn it into a Heaven's Halberd later for insane amounts of physical EHP. C) If you go midas, I personally don't like radiance on doom. He isn't tanky enough without 1 solid tank item (AC/Heart) so he can't stand in fights dishing out the radi burn, and with Midas AND devour, you farm and clear creeps plenty fast, no need for radi. By the time you have Midas AND Heart, Radi burn isn't very relevant anymore. EDIT: On December 01 2012 01:22 durecell wrote: What should you do on the hard lane vs pulling if it's 2v2? Whenever we try to mess with the support we get killed more often than not and if we don't then they come with a level advantage and kill us. Also what's a good time for a support to pick up your first TP scroll? I normally go flying courier > boots (If I don't get boots early I end up feed) > wards > tp scroll. In general, sending exactly 2 people to the hard lane is often weak, so what you want are 2 really powerful laners who can win that lane decisively (something like SK/Lina. Either SK would probably work rofl). With a strong lane, you can easily take the pull creeps + the opposing creeps fighting there and come out ahead on gold and XP, because your opponents can't contest you taking those creeps. Barring that, warding the pull really is a must, although good opponents will pull other camps if they are dire. | ||
|
Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
| ||
|
St.Velten
Germany222 Posts
| ||
|
Aui_2000
Canada435 Posts
On December 01 2012 01:37 Sn0_Man wrote: Ouch, told by a pro. Well looks like I'm wrong XD. Thanks for tips Aui . I admit, Maledict would be a lot stronger if they buffed the range a bit. Hmm, I didn't mean to say that your build was wrong at all--it's significantly better at various mmrs and situationally. I just wanted to provide an alternative build because essays are killing me and I need to type about anything other than school :D. Edit: afaik death ward can't be sped up by any auras or buffs. I really should not have used BAT in my post but I'm too used to that term | ||
| ||
