• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:06
CEST 17:06
KST 00:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End6Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!43Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
GSTL Returns in 2026! Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO Rush's Odyssey Controversy [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End BW General Discussion StarCraft 64 is coming to Philly at SC4ALL II
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL22] Ro24 Group A CSLAN 4 is Coming! ASL Season 22 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8669 users

Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1136

Forum Index > Dota 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1254 Next
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
August 15 2015 08:50 GMT
#22701
On August 15 2015 17:02 Spaylz wrote:
Not related to the game itself, but a question for aussie TLers:

I recently moved to Australia, and I want to get back into Dota 2.

Do you guys play on aussie servers, or others? If others, what ping do you get?

I'm quite curious! Thanks.

Australians and Kiwis play on the Australia server most of the time, with a few playing on SEA or USwest. I get ~30 ms ping from NZ, but I know some Aussies get worse ping. It will depend on your ISP and location.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
August 15 2015 10:03 GMT
#22702
Australia. 60ms for me, servers are in Sydney.

SEA is about 150, USW is 200+, nothing else is playable. I play 99% AU unless the servers are down for some reason.
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
August 15 2015 15:47 GMT
#22703
Was there a Boxer/Flash of dota?
Someone who showed complete dominance for an extended period?
eieio
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States14512 Posts
August 15 2015 15:57 GMT
#22704
I mean Vigoss through 6.48b maybe?
LiquidDota Staff
TL+ Member
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 16 2015 17:59 GMT
#22705
EHOME 2010
Moderator
eieio
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States14512 Posts
August 16 2015 18:45 GMT
#22706
On August 17 2015 02:59 TheYango wrote:
EHOME 2010

oh yeah this is right after I left but pretty obviously the answer in terms of teams afaik
LiquidDota Staff
TL+ Member
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
August 16 2015 19:36 GMT
#22707
I was wondering in more terms of just one player that really stood out as mechanically gifted.
Dominant lane stage regardless of the pressure and lack of help.
Looking back at some of the games I was considering Dendi?
I guess kind of like the best player on the best team having high placements for close to 3 years in terms of pro dota?
Or did the teams not stay together very long?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 20:18:36
August 16 2015 20:08 GMT
#22708
On August 17 2015 04:36 MaCRo.gg wrote:
I was wondering in more terms of just one player that really stood out as mechanically gifted.

Then using Flash/Boxer as your comparison point makes zero sense, as neither player's dominance came from mechanical supremacy.

On August 17 2015 04:36 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Dominant lane stage regardless of the pressure and lack of help.

The problem is that this is inherently a laning- and mid lane-centric view of the game, and has very little correlation to being the most successful player. Being able to win your lane every game doesn't necessarily translate into dominance over the game as a whole.

On August 17 2015 04:36 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Looking back at some of the games I was considering Dendi?

Dendi was at times considered the strongest mid laner, but never bonjwa-level dominant. And even when he was the strongest, it was not really for flawless laning fundamentals, but good overall execution and read on the game while playing tempo heroes--but again, it's hard to separate his individual ability in that regard from the team.

On August 17 2015 04:36 MaCRo.gg wrote:
I guess kind of like the best player on the best team having high placements for close to 3 years in terms of pro dota?

The closest player to having this kind of extended dominance is Burning--was on EHOME 2010, then subsequently on DK 2011/2012.

But on the whole it's really hard to separate a player's dominance from a team's dominance in this way.

EDIT: Also, on basically no iteration of Na'Vi would I consider Dendi to be the "best player on the best team". The real backbone of TI1/TI2 era Na'Vi was LightofHeaven (and Ars-Art to a lesser extent). And on TI3/TI4-era Na'Vi, Dendi had a lot of flubs over the year on heroes he was uncomfortable with.
Moderator
MaCRo.gg
Profile Joined June 2015
Korea (South)860 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 20:38:56
August 16 2015 20:37 GMT
#22709
I guess from your answers Yango that the answer to my question is probably Burning.
He still places high and seems to be a very stable performer, even in iG's lack of performance during group stages he still had his moments.

I guess I was looking for a performances like QO's TA that willed his team to victory at times.
Right now Sumail looks pretty strong to become a clear standout player of that caliber.
On August 17 2015 05:08 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2015 04:36 MaCRo.gg wrote:
I was wondering in more terms of just one player that really stood out as mechanically gifted.

Then using Flash/Boxer as your comparison point makes zero sense, as neither player's dominance came from mechanical supremacy.

Flash is one of the most dominant mechanical players ever. I don't know how you could question his mechanical supremacy.
Boxer liked his cheese but he had great mechanics, he was a relevant player such late into his career because of his mechanical gifts.
Making zero sense doesn't really fit this situation, I'm just trying to get a sense of Dota's past dude.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-16 20:43:25
August 16 2015 20:40 GMT
#22710
On August 17 2015 05:37 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Flash is one of the most dominant mechanical players ever. I don't know how you could question his mechanical supremacy, it was pretty clear that he could out play all his opponents.
Boxer liked his cheese but he had great mechanics, he was a relevant player such late into his career because of his mechanical gifts.

No. Both players played in eras where many of their opponents were not at all weaker than them in mechanical skill. What separated them both was a deeper understanding of the game.

Where do you think Flash's maphack-like game sense came from? Mechanical skill?

To say that either was dominant because of mechanical supremacy is both a disservice to them as well as their rivals.
Moderator
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
August 16 2015 21:42 GMT
#22711
On August 17 2015 05:40 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2015 05:37 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Flash is one of the most dominant mechanical players ever. I don't know how you could question his mechanical supremacy, it was pretty clear that he could out play all his opponents.
Boxer liked his cheese but he had great mechanics, he was a relevant player such late into his career because of his mechanical gifts.

No. Both players played in eras where many of their opponents were not at all weaker than them in mechanical skill. What separated them both was a deeper understanding of the game.

Where do you think Flash's maphack-like game sense came from? Mechanical skill?

To say that either was dominant because of mechanical supremacy is both a disservice to them as well as their rivals.

It's definitely arguable that Jaedong and Bisu had better mechanics than Flash, but Flash had starsense ;_; and terran OP

Boxer was just a genius for his time, same as Yellow.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
August 16 2015 22:26 GMT
#22712
Boxer also never 'showed complete dominance for an extended period of time', that's a misconception of people who started watching BW after his prime. He was the best player in the world for a decent amount of time and very successful for a very long time (even when he had no business to be anymore if you all you judged by were his fundamentals), but he never showed the kind of domination the other bonjwas did.

He was also not considered a bonjwa until everyone started picking up on the term and decided he must be one because he's one of if not the most legendary BW player of all time. And he was never a player defined by his mechanics.
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8916 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-17 04:52:39
August 17 2015 04:48 GMT
#22713
flash was godlike mechanically too. yeah he had really good game sense but people seem to forget that there were some games where he just steamrolled people through sheer mechanics. his army control and macro as a terran were unparalleled.
as for dota players you cant have someone whos dominant because no matter how good you are if your team lets you down you will lose games.
there are many players who at times could have been called best in their respective positions or favourites to win lane/game though. even then, most of them never last a long period because the patch changes and they fail to adapt for a while or team shuffles cause them to play below standard.
one player in particular i can think of who suffered from this is zsmj. burning and zhou were solid carries but zsmj really showed the world what farming speed and efficiency really was. lgd dominated a lot of teams including the dominant ehome just until everyone switched to dota 2 and everyone on lgd abandoned zsmj and he went on hiatus. now no one considers him anywhere near burning level
so basically you cant be consistently god-tier level forever because sooner or later the game changes to a point where you need more time to adapt than others and you fall off for a while
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
August 17 2015 05:51 GMT
#22714
flash's mechanics were imba yo.
if you want to have someone that is most predominantly successful in term of star sense, it has to be savior. That guy was miles ahead of his times in terms of game sense.

but to talk about individuals in dota like that doesn't make much sense. mechanical abilities are far less important in dota than in starcraft.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
August 17 2015 06:16 GMT
#22715
On August 17 2015 13:48 evilfatsh1t wrote:
flash was godlike mechanically too.

I never said he wasn't, but that wasn't the critical element in his dominance.

Sure, he could wreck B-class progamers in 10 minutes with his mechanical advantage. But there's really only one opponent that actually mattered in assessing Flash's dominance in that era. And Flash's mechanics are not why he was a better player than Jaedong.
Moderator
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
August 17 2015 07:38 GMT
#22716
On August 17 2015 05:37 MaCRo.gg wrote:
I guess from your answers Yango that the answer to my question is probably Burning.
He still places high and seems to be a very stable performer, even in iG's lack of performance during group stages he still had his moments.

I guess I was looking for a performances like QO's TA that willed his team to victory at times.
Right now Sumail looks pretty strong to become a clear standout player of that caliber.
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2015 05:08 TheYango wrote:
On August 17 2015 04:36 MaCRo.gg wrote:
I was wondering in more terms of just one player that really stood out as mechanically gifted.

Then using Flash/Boxer as your comparison point makes zero sense, as neither player's dominance came from mechanical supremacy.

Flash is one of the most dominant mechanical players ever. I don't know how you could question his mechanical supremacy.
Boxer liked his cheese but he had great mechanics, he was a relevant player such late into his career because of his mechanical gifts.
Making zero sense doesn't really fit this situation, I'm just trying to get a sense of Dota's past dude.


Back in dota 1 and in the beginning of dota 2 there was a noticeably significant gap. In 2010 Ehome basically slapped aside all the western teams and stunned the world. Burning would start 1v3 in the offlane as Medusa or Drow and end up being the leading farmer at 20 minutes. MMY completely trashed all these hyped western mids like Dendi or Korok by ludicrous margins, then took over the game himself. Dota1 had a lot of annoying "features" that allowed more room to outplay people as well due to annoying interface stuff. Even at TI2 Ferrari's games were basically one highlight reel after another, MMY was dodging Blink Burrowstrikes with Storm zips or instantly lifting a Brewmaster after he blinked but before the clap (nobody knew what preselecting was), Dendi stole Ravage so consistently when others couldn't, and you could clearly tell the difference in caliber between people like YYF and LoH vs any other offlaner, or the chinese carry trifecta of Burning/Zhou/Sylar.

Dota is way too nuanced to make judgments like this now that the skill gap between everyone is less and less. In 2015 the Chinese don't have much of that general individual skill edge they've always possessed anymore. Team strategy also plays an extremely massive role in how individual skill looks to viewers, and most viewers only see the tip of the iceberg in terms of player skill anyways.

i,e team secret was said to be gods with amazingly skilled players at every position. "Arteezy best player ever, Kuroky #1 rubick zai young prodigy blah blah" But this ignored how massive of a strategic edge they entered every game with, which allowed them to get outplayed and still win games. When Ehome took this strategy advantage away from them at TI suddenly people said "oh they had bad games." No they were never that godlike to begin with, and suddenly they don't look so hot when the enemy also super talented players like Lanm and Cty know how you play and just tear you apart. Then after the Ehome loss they don't have that perfect confidence anymore nor a super strategic edge, and lose to a 2nd rate Virtus Pro where suddenly wonderboy Arteezy gets ganked 1-9 on Luna and Kuroky/s4 have no impact.

Sumail might very well have turned out to be no different than qojqva had he not been blessed to been put on a team of such strong mental fortitude and strategic genius ppd. I could make a very convincing argument that Sumail is 4th or 5th best on his team, considering that no other top core player outright loses games for his team as much as Sumail does nor does any core player get as much hand-holding from his team as Sumail has. There's no way he's any better than Maybe for example.

For a pretty solid 6 monthsish, DK of 2013-2014 had the best players in every position....but then suddenly they didn't play like that at TI and ended up losing to teams who had some severely worse players like EG or Rotk. The gap just ain't that large. Maybe there are still some clear individual advantages on very difficult heroes like the Puppey Chen, Burning AM, Fy Rubick, Maybe Ember, and Ferrari/Ice3 Invoker but even hard heroes like Storm or SF are too close now. Is Cty better or worse than Sumail on Storm? Is Arteezy better or worse than Mushi on SF? Is MMY or Lanm the #2 Rubick? Who can tell. Amusingly, I'd say that the Meracle Naga is probably still the biggest individual skill advantage over anyone else on that hero for whatever reason, possibly because he doesn't play in a real league and people don't have the incentives to copy him anymore.

tldr; figuring out and isolating individual skill in this game in 2015 is way too bloody difficult.
Liquipedia
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
August 17 2015 07:44 GMT
#22717
that was an entertaining read
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
August 17 2015 09:23 GMT
#22718
is there a way to 100% transfer all settings from one account to another without setting up everything manually?
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-17 09:36:28
August 17 2015 09:31 GMT
#22719
On August 17 2015 18:23 Andre wrote:
is there a way to 100% transfer all settings from one account to another without setting up everything manually?

all of the settings for your particular user are in Steam/userdata/xxxxxxxxx/570/remote/cfg

where 'xxxxxxx' refers to your steam account number, and 570 is the appid for dota.

so copy all of the files in that folder to the xxxxxxxx folder of your second account


in fact, just copy the remote folder, as all the stuff in there is useful. like in the scripts folder, you have your control groups saved (eg. it remembers how your meepos are hotkeyed)

guides folder has all of your custom recommended item builds

after doing all of that, when you launch the game on your second account, you will probs get a steam cloud conflict notification, in which case you tell it to use the settings on your computer
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
BoZiffer
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1841 Posts
August 17 2015 14:15 GMT
#22720
Playing as Jugg against an Omni lineup. When should I get Diffusal? Typically I go PMS, RoA, Phase, SnY. Get immediately after?
Prev 1 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1254 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 9m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RushiSC 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7650
Shuttle 2100
Mini 889
BeSt 886
EffOrt 538
Soulkey 477
Soma 418
Stork 336
Larva 249
ggaemo 195
[ Show more ]
Mong 176
Snow 98
Hyun 70
Mind 65
sSak 62
Sexy 44
Bale 29
Terrorterran 29
sorry 28
zelot 12
Noble 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Dota 2
Gorgc8494
qojqva2892
Dendi1978
BananaSlamJamma353
Counter-Strike
x6flipin206
edward162
markeloff109
Other Games
singsing2244
Liquid`RaSZi883
hiko853
B2W.Neo656
crisheroes334
Beastyqt287
Liquid`VortiX218
TKL 204
Hui .183
RotterdaM142
Livibee96
ArmadaUGS90
QueenE72
Mew2King46
Trikslyr13
KnowMe10
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 10
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile115
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV868
League of Legends
• Jankos1801
• TFBlade977
Upcoming Events
The Patches Monday
1h 9m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 54m
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
GSL
19h 54m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 18h
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.