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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
On April 20 2015 17:15 ahswtini wrote: what is the technical definition of an orb? I think it's the same or encompasses UAMs. What I loved about Dota 1 was that there really was an org around your hero or heroes weapon whenever you had a UAM on. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
How do you beat Phantom Lancer? I feel like when he's played right, it's impossible. He's fast, does a ton of damage, escapes most targeted spells by virtue of having 10 illusions around him, and when you do find the real one, he just literally disappears. The only way my team ever gets kills against him is when we 3:1 gank him or something, but if he's cautious and stays with his team using illusions to push towers I'm at a loss. None of the traditional "answers" seem to work - EarthShaker, Shivas, etc... | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 20 2015 17:15 ahswtini wrote: what is the technical definition of an orb? There isn't really a "technical definition". It's just a concept inherited from Warcraft 3 where certain on-attack item effects are restricted from working with each other. The term orb refers to the orb items that commonly provided such effects in Warcraft 3 (Orb of Corruption/Fire/Lightning/Venom). "Buff placer" is a separate term referring to a different set of rules for item stacking where debuff-placing attack effects cannot be applied in multiples either. Although the term can be misleading because you can still trigger debuffs placed on-attack so not all attack effects that place buffs are buff placers (e.g. Slark's Essence Shift isn't a buff placer), and some attack effects that don't appear to place buffs (e.g. Maelstrom/Mjollnir's Chain Lightning) are buff placers. The distinction between the two categories is why some attack effects stack with others while other combinations don't. Effects like Desolator, Frost Arrows, Poison Attack, etc. are both orbs AND buff placers, so the distinction in stacking rules is moot, but the most common scenario is that Lifesteal (which is an orb but not a buff placer) stacks with Skadi (which is a buff placer but not an orb). Again, the term UAM subsumes both of these categories of attack effects--DotA 2's UAM system tries to just call them all UAMs and make the stacking interactions exceptions. That this actually simplifies things to the learner is a dubious idea--I personally think it's easier to learn 2 rules than it is to learn one rule + a ton of exceptions to that one rule. | ||
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
On April 20 2015 23:02 DinoMight wrote: Serious question, not QQ: How do you beat Phantom Lancer? I feel like when he's played right, it's impossible. He's fast, does a ton of damage, escapes most targeted spells by virtue of having 10 illusions around him, and when you do find the real one, he just literally disappears. The only way my team ever gets kills against him is when we 3:1 gank him or something, but if he's cautious and stays with his team using illusions to push towers I'm at a loss. None of the traditional "answers" seem to work - EarthShaker, Shivas, etc... Well I hate this hero so much !! here u have my answers (as a support player, I mostly play supp) : -Force ur carry to buy battlefury. not 1st item, but on the end game -Get zeus. This little guy destroys illusions. -try to prevent him from farming hard. smoke ganks in the early game are reaaly good. -forcestaff on support to save ally -on lategame, get a bane (forget item name) -Did the SD trick still working ? u disrupt and illusion of PL and let them hit, he will generate more and more illusion etc. | ||
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
On April 20 2015 23:02 TheYango wrote: There isn't really a "technical definition". It's just a concept inherited from Warcraft 3 where certain on-attack item effects are restricted from working with each other. The term orb refers to the orb items that commonly provided such effects in Warcraft 3 (Orb of Corruption/Fire/Lightning/Venom). OFF TOPIC but Yango please, there is a lot more orb than that in WC3. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 20 2015 23:23 VelJa wrote: OFF TOPIC but Yango please, there is a lot more orb than that in WC3. Of course there are, I'm just saying that's why they're called "orbs" and gave examples. It wasn't meant to be an exhaustive listing of the orbs, lol. | ||
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
On April 20 2015 23:30 TheYango wrote: Of course there are, I'm just saying that's why they're called "orbs" and gave examples. It wasn't meant to be an exhaustive listing of the orbs, lol. I know that you know it, but I am a little bit pernickety when we talk about the best game in the fucking gaming history :D | ||
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VelJa
France1109 Posts
On April 20 2015 23:28 SilverSkyLark wrote: How do you deal against a carry Abaddon in your lane? My friend and I run him a lot. He picks Abaddon and I pick a defensive support to sustain his dives or an aggressive support to get kills easier. We usually run him safelane and the offlane enemies get zoned out hard or feed 3-5 kills early on and our Abaddon just snowballs. People at 2-3k mmr do not know how to deal against this and I was wondering how to deal against a carry Abaddon in the early game. control him and kill all his allys ? abaddon has no burst damage / stun / escape (except his shield ofc) oneshot him ? @lina ags @ lion ags But this is a good idea that abaddon carry is really rare in ranked so people can be confuse about this ^^ | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 20 2015 23:28 SilverSkyLark wrote: How do you deal against a carry Abaddon in your lane? My friend and I run him a lot. He picks Abaddon and I pick a defensive support to sustain his dives or an aggressive support to get kills easier. We usually run him safelane and the offlane enemies get zoned out hard or feed 3-5 kills early on and our Abaddon just snowballs. People at 2-3k mmr do not know how to deal against this and I was wondering how to deal against a carry Abaddon in the early game. Carry Aba is not very good, IMO. He doesn't do that much damage, has not burst, no stun. You just attack him, Euls when his ulti is up, and finish him off when he lands. I think the biggest reason carry Aba works is because people panic and focus on him rather than the other heroes. He ends up getting farmed a bunch of kills and snowballs to the point where he can just dive forever because nobody can kill him. TLDR; dont hit him when his ult is up, focus higher DPS heroes first. EDIT - but it's super fun to play against people who are bad :p I occasionally play Swaggadon, but im only 2.2k so people don't know how to fight it. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 20 2015 23:22 VelJa wrote: Well I hate this hero so much !! here u have my answers (as a support player, I mostly play supp) : -Force ur carry to buy battlefury. not 1st item, but on the end game -Get zeus. This little guy destroys illusions. -try to prevent him from farming hard. smoke ganks in the early game are reaaly good. -forcestaff on support to save ally -on lategame, get a bane (forget item name) -Did the SD trick still working ? u disrupt and illusion of PL and let them hit, he will generate more and more illusion etc. Helpful. Yeah unfortunately you kind of need planning and coordination to kill him. I hate that you can basically lose to a single hero at the drafting stage because everyone on your team wants to play Slark or whateverthefuck specific hero they first pick every game. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
pl illusions used to be self-sustaining if you gave them stuff to hit with reasonable amounts of leeway for between camps/waves etc now they are self sustaining so long as there is something to hit but can't even travel from camp to camp or wave to wave so the utility is often limited. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
do illusions get the illusion chance or the not illusion chance? thats really ur question? | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On April 21 2015 00:42 Sn0_Man wrote: ? do illusions get the illusion chance or the not illusion chance? thats really ur question? Well, PL has an illusion chance and his illusions have a different illusion chance. So when you disrupt him, do those illusions get his illusion chance or thils illusons' illusion chance? I'm thinking the latter. Also, Dotaception. EDIT - thanks sno | ||
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Faruko
Chile34173 Posts
 I loved that item | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Though more relevantly, when your games focus around long high-ground defense, 5+ item lategame, and stats-heavy manfighting power, Desolator loses a lot of it's luster, since it's sold a lot on its earlier strength, strong tower-killing capability, and pure damage output over manfighting ability. Of the common heroes, it's still potentially good on Sniper in the right games, but there's not a whole lot of appeal to that if you aren't going to win the game with it and are just going to hohohaha defend high ground until you have 5+ items anyway (at which point you'd probably rather have Crit+MKB than just one of them + Deso). | ||
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