i dont think pooled regen is a thing at 2k but yes its true that obviously the build that abuses people being idiots is much better when everybody is idiots

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 17 2015 01:17 GMT

#21542

I mean it kinda applies to playing vs. SF in general. Like a ton of matchups that are stalemates or SF-favored are total landslides against SF if the SF player doesn't know their burst damage extremely well at every level along the way.

Though, Dead9 mentioned it in the Tinker thread, and I'm surprised no one mentioned it here. You don't really go like 1-1-3 at 5. You get like 2-0-0 and hold 2-3 skill points while you evaluate how the other guy plays (rank 1-2 March is ass anyway and you're not going to waste your mana on that shit). If he exposes himself to a kill, you can skill rockets twice and get the kill. If he doesn't, you can skill March 3x at level 5 and start using it because that's when it starts to damage enough to be useful. You still get 2-4-4-1 at 11 if your opponent doesn't suck and you have the flexibility to look for the kills that Laser+Rocket allows you to get if you think you can leverage that.

So it's not like you commit to Laser-Rocket or March from the get-go. You skill in such a way where the option to go either is always open, because both Rocket and March kind of suck at rank 1 so there's no rush for you to use your level 2 skill point. Then you can commit to one or the other at 4-5 once you've felt out the lane a bit (in SF's case if you didn't get that kill by the time both of your are level 5, you're not likely to get it later than that because he'll have Bottle+rank 3 Raze).

Howie_Dewitt

United States1416 Posts

April 17 2015 12:42 GMT

#21543

What role is dk played as? People have told me too many things

ahswtini

Northern Ireland22213 Posts

April 17 2015 13:02 GMT

#21544

1-2

DinoMight

United States3725 Posts

April 17 2015 13:35 GMT

#21545

On April 17 2015 21:42 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
What role is dk played as? People have told me too many things

He needs a lot of farm and he's good at killing towers.

VelJa

France1109 Posts

April 17 2015 14:40 GMT

#21546

On April 17 2015 21:42 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
What role is dk played as? People have told me too many things

DK now is absent from pro draft and I never see anyone of them in my bracket (3k8). This hero was strong before nerf bottle crow.
Now hes just good for pushing tower and he has a huge armor.

So basically u can plys it 1/2.
You can try to play him as support if you want, but he will be not so good :o

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 17 2015 14:48 GMT

#21547

u can offlane dk just fine if u want

Fencar

United States2694 Posts

April 17 2015 14:51 GMT

#21548

It seems really greedy to do that though. I tried it a couple of times, going something like treads + SR, and if you get a tough lane it's really hard to farm. Heck it's not even greedy, it's just not that good, but at least in a 1v2 lane against heroes/players that can't zone out DK completely, you can at least get full levels without taking up the mid/safelane slot.

Though tbh I haven't played a lot of DK offlane, so maybe I'm bad.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 17 2015 14:56 GMT

#21549

It's basically like a hipster version of offlane Morph except your stun is shorter and you suck more without Blink Dagger.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 17 2015 14:56 GMT

#21550

well yes it is strictly worse than offlane morph but what isnt?
at least u can have armor AND hp not just one or the other

Velzi

Finland659 Posts

April 17 2015 14:58 GMT

#21551

well u do have 300dmg nuke that doesnt put u into risk of dying + u actually deal damage to towers with ur ulti. Not like morphling isnt superior in any other aspect, just trying to make excuses x)

govie

9334 Posts

April 17 2015 15:04 GMT

#21552

They will probably just zone you out and you dont have a jungling mechanic like other offlaners (sandking/doom/bloodseeker/NP/whatever), if not a duallane chances are its a wasted pick as a solo offlaner against a trilane.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

April 17 2015 15:16 GMT

#21553

wrong?

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 17 2015 15:18 GMT

#21554

"Offlaner needs to be able to jungle" is like a 2013 view of the offlane.

Kreb

4834 Posts

April 17 2015 16:12 GMT

#21555

DK has enough problems dealing damage and being useful given #2 farm. As #3 it would be much worse. You'd be a tanky verdion of a support with a stun, a 300dmg nuke, pathetic right clicks and no farm/catchup mechanic to get you more relevant in the lategame. Get a real support instead.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 17 2015 17:29 GMT

#21556

I mean all of those things you describe also describe offlane Morph as well, and look how much that's caught on.

He has problems dealing damage as a #2 because you pick 2nd position heroes expecting them to do damage when you give them that much farm. There are plenty of 3rd position heroes you pick solely for engaging power rather than for dealing damage because you aren't allocating that many resources to them.

It's still very hard to find a situation where you'd want DK offlane over Beastmaster or Morphling in a serious setting because they have more or less the same upside while offering other things (and being less useless without Blink Dagger), but saying that he provides the same upside that other, more flexible heroes do is not the same as saying he has no upside.

DinoMight

United States3725 Posts

April 17 2015 17:56 GMT

#21557

From my (limited) experience DK requires a lot of farm and if you're not playing him safe lane he has trouble getting it. Even in safe lane against the right hero combinations he can have a hard time so you need a good support with him.

If he's not getting the farm he needs there are a lot of heroes that are better than him...

DinoMight

United States3725 Posts

April 17 2015 17:58 GMT

#21558

On April 17 2015 10:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
i dont think pooled regen is a thing at 2k but yes its true that obviously the build that abuses people being idiots is much better when everybody is idiots

There's a mix of everything at my MMR. Guys who are really knowledgeable about the game but have the worst mechanics on earth and guys who are really skillful but are giant assholes and spam annoying shit in chat all game.

So I've definitely pooled Tangoes to someone going mid before. But I can't reliably ask someone to do the same for me, unfortunately...

Howie_Dewitt

United States1416 Posts

April 17 2015 19:39 GMT

#21559

Would building him as an aoe whore/damage absorber be bad?
Pipe, Vlad's, ac, halberd, heart is what I am thinking of

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

April 17 2015 19:49 GMT

#21560

In terms of normal core DK, Pipe is decent, but you don't often get games/teamcomps where pipe is more useful than a BKB these days. Vlad's is pretty bad on him since you almost never fight without Dragon up anyway unless you're losing badly (and since you're ranged then, you lose a lot of Vlad's benefit). AC/Halberd/Heart are all possible defensive item choices, it depends on the game.

You still usually need Blink or Lothar's because you really need to get the most out of his 0-animation stun, which is a large part of why you'd pick him at all.