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On April 18 2015 02:29 TheYango wrote:
I mean all of those things you describe also describe offlane Morph as well, and look how much that's caught on.
He has problems dealing damage as a #2 because you pick 2nd position heroes expecting them to do damage when you give them that much farm. There are plenty of 3rd position heroes you pick solely for engaging power rather than for dealing damage because you aren't allocating that many resources to them.
It's still very hard to find a situation where you'd want DK offlane over Beastmaster or Morphling in a serious setting because they have more or less the same upside while offering other things (and being less useless without Blink Dagger), but saying that he provides the same upside that other, more flexible heroes do is not the same as saying he has no upside.
No the hero has problems dealing damage and being useful because it's currently quite a shithero, nothing else. Only 1/4 skills deals any magic damage so its rightclick u gotta build for. And his right clicks are quite pathetic and he has no way of making that up with some kind of crazy farming abilities or self steroid or anything like that.
Engaging power? 3.25sec stun and 400 dmg isnt even particularly good with combined Q+W. If you pick a hero for his skills they're supposed to be like something special. A lot of random supps will do similar or better than that. And those supps often have something on top like a strong 3rd spell or ulti which makes them more useful. And his E and R only makes him a tanky version of said supp as i said before.
Not sure where morphling came into this but his 4.25sec + raidboss hp pool + possible replicate utility sure makes him have much less problems being useful than a DK would. So no, all those things I described doesnt describe Morph too.
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Well apparantly dk solo offlane can be a thing now, so i am gonna play chaosknight solo offlane forever in 6.84 because he got rift, tanky, +4 second luckstun, crit and makes copies of itself which can surround enemies so they cant flee. If dk is viable then chaosknight should be viable too.
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United States47024 Posts
CK support was actually a thing in DotA 1 for a while--it's actually better to use him that way than offlane because his stun is way more useful than DK's before 6 so he's a stronger at roaming for kills early game.
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Does Razor's static link steal effective damage or base damage? Suppose a Bane cast's enfeeble, and then I static link that same unit. Which attack damage am I stealing?
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So LD isn't exactly meta right now, but I have a competitive (lol, 5k avg amateur games) match in a week vs a team who has a great LD player. He has other signature heroes and there are other meta picks we'd like to ban, so I'm probably letting LD through into the pool. The opponent usually plays the hero mid.
What are some good tips for laning 1v1 mid vs LD, and what heroes are suited for it? Razor comes to mind but we generally like to play a more split-pushy/farming oriented style instead of the grouping style that was popular in the razor meta.
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storm is good if you have other heroes to quickly follow when he goes on the druid, clock is great for this because you can take the bear out of the fight completely with the right engagement
windrunner is good but she needs a lot of farm of course
if you have a naga player just do that and as long as you get a decent start sylla cant push
oh and sniper but, like, duh
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When facing LD mid you need to take into account entangle. If your hero can handle that and other bear hits then it should be fine.
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Silencer is decent vs Sylla, even if he grabs an early level or Rabid Sylla has a hard time against Silencer's spell harass since he doesn't build bottle.
I haven't played the matchup, but maybe Skywrath can zone him since his nuke is decently long ranged.
Kunkka with tidebringer spam could be decent; Huskar's burning spears spam can be a threat even to the bear; Broodmother would work well; I know Bane isn't usually played mid, but he can use the farm and levels and survive and out-cs the bear with enfeeble.
You can always run a dual lane vs it-- don't need to use a Wisp. Put a support Ancient Apparition into a dual lane and Sylla has to back to avoid being frozen by Cold Feet, which if you control the equilibrium well (which should be easy with 2) should prevent the bear from attacking for periods.
If you aren't trying to dominate the Bear, and just want someone to survive the bear's harass, you can always just run a support or offlane Treant Protector and have him heal mid every cd.
A Warlock favouring Fatal Bonds early might be able to zone Sylla if he gets a Bond on both the bear and hero.
Lifestealer has a decent 1v1 matchup with Sylla, since he can heal so much with his passive off the bear.
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i am currently spamming TA or trying to learn
is MoM on TA a good choice compared to yasha/drums/dagger/bkb(some cases) as a secondary item after threads/phase and maybe aquila/drums ?
since like almost every carry buys MoM at this point
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Blink on TA is very strong right now since refraction charges counting down doesn't count as damage taken. Almost always worth getting it due to that.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2015 17:01 Nightmarjoo wrote:
Silencer is decent vs Sylla, even if he grabs an early level or Rabid Sylla has a hard time against Silencer's spell harass since he doesn't build bottle.
I haven't played the matchup, but maybe Skywrath can zone him since his nuke is decently long ranged.
Kunkka with tidebringer spam could be decent; Huskar's burning spears spam can be a threat even to the bear; Broodmother would work well; I know Bane isn't usually played mid, but he can use the farm and levels and survive and out-cs the bear with enfeeble.
Most of these matchups are still LD favored. Bane and LD can "win" but they have to do better than that--if they don't find pre-6 solo-kills he ends up stalemating once he has True Form free HP and you can't really afford to stalemate like that when you're playing a solo lane Bane/Skywrath.
Your focus shouldn't be on trying to win lane vs. Bear, because that's going to strain you more than it's worth. Having picks/teamcomps that can handle Sylla is going to be much easier, going in with the assumption that you're going to lose that lane (because if the Sylla player is really good/experienced, it's going to be too hard to pick lanes that can beat him anyway.
On April 19 2015 17:01 Nightmarjoo wrote:
You can always run a dual lane vs it-- don't need to use a Wisp. Put a support Ancient Apparition into a dual lane and Sylla has to back to avoid being frozen by Cold Feet, which if you control the equilibrium well (which should be easy with 2) should prevent the bear from attacking for periods.
Sylla's a fantastic 1v2 hero, non-Wisp 1v2s are usually not going to be worth the loss of XP on the support (and Wisp 1v2s only are because teams know to try and punish a Wisp lane with a strong off-lane, so he get's sent 2v1 mid to dodge the pressure).
On April 19 2015 23:13 goody153 wrote:
i am currently spamming TA or trying to learn
is MoM on TA a good choice compared to yasha/drums/dagger/bkb(some cases) as a secondary item after threads/phase and maybe aquila/drums ?
since like almost every carry buys MoM at this point
Deso's too good for her still and MoM locks you out of Deso because the orbs interfere.
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I love it when people still refer to Orb effects as Orb effects and not as UAM.
Well, what would be your logic behind MoM? Most people build TA with a "glass cannon" approach and it's kind of dangerous to have your Refract chewed away by Radiance or Poison or whatever towards lategame and then a Tiny or whoever slaps you hard while MoM is still active.
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United States47024 Posts
I still see it as a relevant distinction because UAMs refer to orbs and buff placers collectively, so "orbs" as an individual concept is still useful.
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Wagamama wrote a bunch about why/when MoM is good on TA over at the Dotabuff forums if you want to look it up. I think it very much depends on what position you're playing TA in. There are also times you build neither.
I'm no TA expert so I'm just presenting Waga's views on it.
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Seems like the TA MoM build is very punishable with slight positioning mistakes you make. So i'll probably stick to the Deso/yasha/drums/bkb/dagger builds for now since i think i'm not that good at TA for now. Maybe i'll later i'll experimenting if i become more familiar with the hero.
also "UAM" is for hippies." Orb" is the real deal xD
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
what is the technical definition of an orb?
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idk i just like calling it orb effect cause dota 1 also the definition of UAM is too long
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On April 19 2015 15:27 Kraznaya wrote:
So LD isn't exactly meta right now, but I have a competitive (lol, 5k avg amateur games) match in a week vs a team who has a great LD player. He has other signature heroes and there are other meta picks we'd like to ban, so I'm probably letting LD through into the pool. The opponent usually plays the hero mid.
What are some good tips for laning 1v1 mid vs LD, and what heroes are suited for it? Razor comes to mind but we generally like to play a more split-pushy/farming oriented style instead of the grouping style that was popular in the razor meta.
Well, OD is great vs LD. Astral urself when u are entangle, and just spamm astral on LD, when u hit 6, hes just dead. LD has no intel.
The second option is pretty simple ... just pick it 
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On April 20 2015 19:21 VelJa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2015 15:27 Kraznaya wrote:
So LD isn't exactly meta right now, but I have a competitive (lol, 5k avg amateur games) match in a week vs a team who has a great LD player. He has other signature heroes and there are other meta picks we'd like to ban, so I'm probably letting LD through into the pool. The opponent usually plays the hero mid.
What are some good tips for laning 1v1 mid vs LD, and what heroes are suited for it? Razor comes to mind but we generally like to play a more split-pushy/farming oriented style instead of the grouping style that was popular in the razor meta. Well, OD is great vs LD. Astral urself when u are entangle, and just spamm astral on LD, when u hit 6, hes just dead. LD has no intel. The second option is pretty simple ... just pick it
Im a scrub not even near 5k, but what about bane? Bane can enfeeble/nightmare druid/bear +high basedamage and thus deny alot of xp/gold resulting in druid missing his early peaktimings. Bane is one of the best 1v1 hero's according too metricsblog and he can setup/make some plays too. After seeing bane being played as a core on secret, why would it be a bad midhero against an lone druid?
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Enfeeble vs LD is bad. Do u target bear or hero ? in all case, u don't remove enough dps to him ^^
the problem of a bane midd is that bane don't need stuff/XP to be good in the game. He's support!
Having stuff don't make him snowball. HE stay weak in midd / late game and u can't have a pos. 2 useless after 25m
Secret use bane in offlane but it was vs a solo phoenix. 1v1. Vs LD it's more 1v1,5
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EPT
