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Guys, need some quick tips on Tinker.
I basically only play him mid. Been getting first item null talisman and tango then rushing bottle. Level up lasers/rockets early to get rune control (if they come near it I just nuke them for nearly their entire health bar) and try to get BoT as fast as possible using early nuking power to gank top/bot/get kills in mid. As soon as I have BoT I get a Soul Ring (the mana always guarantees you have enough to rearm and go home). From there I guess it's situational but sometimes I for straight for Sheep Stick and sometimes I finish my Dagon first if we're winning and I can snowball our team to victory w ganks.
Now questions:
1) Is he viable anywhere but mid? Without the ability to farm the ancients with march and reduced access to the runes I don't see why you'd play him anywhere else.
2) Post BoT/Soul ring, in the period of time that I'm farming up my next item - is it ideal to go around ganking with my team abusing the early levels/damage I have over the dual lane heroes? Or do I want to push towers with March? I feel like when I do that my team doesn't necessarily get all the farm they need.
3) Going backwards, what's a good benchmark for BoT I usually get it between 9-12 mins (I'm a 2.2k MMR scrub, don't hate.. though I have like 200 games on TInker, mostly pre nerf)
4) Going forwards, when do I get an e-blade? I've still somehow never used that item even though the combo I know is very strong. Is there any hero that I should NEVER go E-blade against? Someone like Lina comes to mind because they can probably blow me up really fast with just their R.
5) Lastly, any tips for how to be active in team fights? Typically I find that if any hero even touches me I just die. I'm so reliant on rearm that anything that breaks it (stuns, whatever) ends me very fast. So usually I try to stay away from the center of the fight just dishing out DPS and picking off stragglers afterwards. Something like this - Spam, march, rockets where the fight is going to happen, and if someone gets close, Q them. Sheep/Dagon accordingly, etc.
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Straight up question: You are in all pick ranked and you see they have picked ax who is clearly going off lane. You are going to be the safe lane carry because both supports are pick and they are not great against ax.
Who do you pick?
Reason: Ax is the bane of my life right now and I end up playing safe lane a lot for some reason.
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On April 16 2015 22:58 DinoMight wrote:Guys, need some quick tips on Tinker. + Show Spoiler [long] +
I basically only play him mid. Been getting first item null talisman and tango then rushing bottle. Level up lasers/rockets early to get rune control (if they come near it I just nuke them for nearly their entire health bar) and try to get BoT as fast as possible using early nuking power to gank top/bot/get kills in mid. As soon as I have BoT I get a Soul Ring (the mana always guarantees you have enough to rearm and go home). From there I guess it's situational but sometimes I for straight for Sheep Stick and sometimes I finish my Dagon first if we're winning and I can snowball our team to victory w ganks.
Now questions:
1) Is he viable anywhere but mid? Without the ability to farm the ancients with march and reduced access to the runes I don't see why you'd play him anywhere else.
2) Post BoT/Soul ring, in the period of time that I'm farming up my next item - is it ideal to go around ganking with my team abusing the early levels/damage I have over the dual lane heroes? Or do I want to push towers with March? I feel like when I do that my team doesn't necessarily get all the farm they need.
3) Going backwards, what's a good benchmark for BoT I usually get it between 9-12 mins (I'm a 2.2k MMR scrub, don't hate.. though I have like 200 games on TInker, mostly pre nerf)
4) Going forwards, when do I get an e-blade? I've still somehow never used that item even though the combo I know is very strong. Is there any hero that I should NEVER go E-blade against? Someone like Lina comes to mind because they can probably blow me up really fast with just their R.
5) Lastly, any tips for how to be active in team fights? Typically I find that if any hero even touches me I just die. I'm so reliant on rearm that anything that breaks it (stuns, whatever) ends me very fast. So usually I try to stay away from the center of the fight just dishing out DPS and picking off stragglers afterwards. Something like this - Spam, march, rockets where the fight is going to happen, and if someone gets close, Q them. Sheep/Dagon accordingly, etc.
1) u can farm safelane too but pubs generally wont let u
2) u sux at everything pre blink. if its a really ez opportunity u can tp in to a fight to mop up but really its usually best to call that fight space and go push/farm elsewhere. get ur blink asap
3) depends on ur lane. never be happy with a timing, always think about how you could improve it especially given how ez it is to clear a few jungle camps with march in ur down time. sub 10 mins should give you a chance to win every game though.
4) when u had to buy a ghost for not die reasons and are now slot constrained (or after dagon 5). keep in mind e-blade doesn't make u ethereal unless u self target now. Also keep in mind that lina ult is pure post-aghs so being ethereal doesn't effect that.
5) just blink around the edges of fights and spam march/rockets. laser anybody who gets in attacking range of u.
On April 16 2015 23:27 Plansix wrote:
Straight up question: You are in all pick ranked and you see they have picked ax who is clearly going off lane. You are going to be the safe lane carry because both supports are pick and they are not great against ax.
Who do you pick?
Reason: Ax is the bane of my life right now and I end up playing safe lane a lot for some reason.
generally ur gonna want to have long range and good mobility. not many melee heroes can contest counter helix and he can just run into the wave to guarantee that it happens.
that said, get enough buddies and u can just kill him with most heroes that feature a disable right. The answer in the safelane is generally to kill with buddies. If thats REALLY not happening u can always like ursa or something. Just dont fight him with ur creeps around, fight him away from the wave.
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I'm not the best tinker player but I think there are situations where you don't always go laser-rocket build, because it is entirely reliant on a good start and ganks, and when you can't get them (like with a team that is really passive or refuses to roam or the enemies are not very squishy) then maybe 1 laser + max rocket-march would be better because once you get blink + BoTs, in fights you still won't be using laser much unless someone jumps on you and so rocket and march will be enough damage. A good timing for BoTs is pre-10min, but up to 14-15 mins is sort of acceptable in my experience. I don't think he is very viable as a safelane core unless you have a right-clicker like lycan or naga in mid who will do well, because otherwise the enemy will just buy bkb and wreck you because you don't have a carry. As for e-blade, different players do it differently, I've seen dagon 1 then ethereal, dagon 5 then ethereal, if you are getting ganked by heroes like slardar an early ghost scepter after lvl 1 dagon can be good, but actually finishing the e-blade is a question of whether you need the damage output, whether you have slots left, whether the enemy has bkb yet and so on. Until you have at least dagon you shouldn't really be in the middle of fights unless it's just a support, so you should just try and stay far away or in trees and spam rocket and march, and when there are only one or two heroes left you should maybe go in. If you have an early lead and/or the enemy has easily gankable heroes like spectre, sniper, etc., you can go and gank with laser-rocket build but keep in mind that if it fails then you will very quickly fall behind in farm until you have at least 3-4 levels of march.
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That may be the least readable post ever.
also yes laser+rocket is a bad build but whaaaatever 2kmmr
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Thanks, that's helpful.
So I forgot to mention, but I do get Blink dagger ASAP after BoT... use it for hiding in the woods and spamming march etc.
Is lasers/rockets ALWAYS bad? If I'm against Shadow Fiend in mid or someone else similar I just go Q, W, and he has no health left...
Obviously if they all pick really big tanky heroes I can understand why March early is better.
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I mean sf just goes raze raze and then goes back to the jungle to farm while ur pinned to ur tower by the creep wave that u can't clear. He just bottle crows and ur fuuuuucked yes i know ur opponents suck ass and don't do these things
thing is laser rocket have such long cd and high mana cost that yeah its strong but you don't actually care about killing the enemy hero in lane u care about getting as many cs as possible usually. its much more reliable.
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From what I've seen in pro games Tinker usually skills 2-2-4-1 at level 9, but the actual 'build order' differs from game to game. Basically you want at least 3 levels of March when you get rearm and soul ring to clear out the stacks in your jungle. You need to asses the lane and skill accordingly (something which I still find difficult those rare times I actually get to play mid in pubs).
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On April 17 2015 00:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean sf just goes raze raze and then goes back to the jungle to farm while ur pinned to ur tower by the creep wave that u can't clear. He just bottle crows and ur fuuuuucked yes i know ur opponents suck ass and don't do these things
thing is laser rocket have such long cd and high mana cost that yeah its strong but you don't actually care about killing the enemy hero in lane u care about getting as many cs as possible usually. its much more reliable.
Ok, so what is a better way to go about it then?
Maybe 1 level Q, then rockets and march? Soul ring before BoT to farm the jungle camps with March?
How do you efficiently control runes without big burst damage and with your slow movement speed/squishiness?
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On April 17 2015 00:10 PoulsenB wrote:
From what I've seen in pro games Tinker usually skills 2-2-4-1 at level 9, but the actual 'build order' differs from game to game. Basically you want at least 3 levels of March when you get rearm and soul ring to clear out the stacks in your jungle. You need to asses the lane and skill accordingly (something which I still find difficult those rare times I actually get to play mid in pubs).
Thanks.
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No problem bro. Just remeber i can be wrong, as I am a ~2300 mmr scrub.
As for rune control, you can use march to push the lane right before the rune spawns, to keep the other guy occupied under his tower.
PS. can someone take a look at my post on the previous page? The one about Shadow Demon? Thanks 
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On April 16 2015 23:27 Plansix wrote:
Straight up question: You are in all pick ranked and you see they have picked ax who is clearly going off lane. You are going to be the safe lane carry because both supports are pick and they are not great against ax.
Who do you pick?
Reason: Ax is the bane of my life right now and I end up playing safe lane a lot for some reason.
Any ranged carry with a slow or source of magic damage seems like it'd work ok right?
Maybe convince your team to let you safelane warlock, or go razor/viper.
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On April 17 2015 00:12 DinoMight wrote:
How do you efficiently control runes without big burst damage and with your slow movement speed/squishiness?
pin HIM to HIS tower by clearing the creep wave with march and trundle off to whatever rune u know they aren't camping
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On April 17 2015 00:16 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2015 23:27 Plansix wrote:
Straight up question: You are in all pick ranked and you see they have picked ax who is clearly going off lane. You are going to be the safe lane carry because both supports are pick and they are not great against ax.
Who do you pick?
Reason: Ax is the bane of my life right now and I end up playing safe lane a lot for some reason.
Any ranged carry with a slow or source of magic damage seems like it'd work ok right? Maybe convince your team to let you safelane warlock, or go razor/viper.
I forgot viper safe lane isn't bad. I might go down that dark path. Or just learn QoP.
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On April 16 2015 05:56 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2015 03:05 Yurie wrote:
What is the site called that lets you enter two lineups and compare their win rates?
I recall it also suggested that certain combinations were strong or weak together by % above or below average. http://dotateam.mehttp://truepicker.comBoth can be helpfull, although the first one assumes positions of heros so you cant judge the effectiveness of the line up when you felt creative or artistique And the 2nd one is based on i guess the majority of players so the higher mmr you have the less positive impact it could have. Still both good tools to play around with.
Both seems nice. Especially the second one. I was thinking of a third one though that actually listed the relevant % on top of suggesting the hero. Getting 4-5 suggestions doesn't help as much as knowing one gives 1% increased win chance, the other 5% (in average) against those opponents and with this ally.
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On April 17 2015 00:18 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2015 00:12 DinoMight wrote:
How do you efficiently control runes without big burst damage and with your slow movement speed/squishiness? pin HIM to HIS tower by clearing the creep wave with march and trundle off to whatever rune u know they aren't camping
Seems reasonable, except at my level people basically only go for kills so I'm still worried he might ignore the creeps/tower and just try to kill me anyway :/
Will try and see how it goes though. Thanks for your help.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
in that case assess if you can fight him or not. if not then just go back to your lane and bottle crow. he will be missing the last hits and xp and with your wave pushed up to his tower, it will soon push back allowing you to safely farm it.
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On April 17 2015 01:04 ahswtini wrote:
in that case assess if you can fight him or not. if not then just go back to your lane and bottle crow. he will be missing the last hits and xp and with your wave pushed up to his tower, it will soon push back allowing you to safely farm it.
Not that I'd expect it in a pub, but typically in that situation isn't the SF also really exposed to rotations by the supports?
Also you can probably snipe the rune if it's not safe enough to grab it yourself. You should have a head start on the SF. On top of that make sure he doesn't have vision as you go for rune so he won't know which side you went for. With your creeps pushing his tower you'll know what way he went though.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
oh i didnt know we were talking about laning against a sf
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United States47024 Posts
On April 17 2015 00:03 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean sf just goes raze raze and then goes back to the jungle to farm while ur pinned to ur tower by the creep wave that u can't clear. He just bottle crows and ur fuuuuucked yes i know ur opponents suck ass and don't do these things
thing is laser rocket have such long cd and high mana cost that yeah its strong but you don't actually care about killing the enemy hero in lane u care about getting as many cs as possible usually. its much more reliable.
Laser Rocket is strong at lower MMR though, because if SF doesn't know your burst damage, you can kinda just kill him. Laser->wait Laser CD, Laser+Rocket+autos, kill.
Like at levels 1-3, you can get situations where SF actually has to tango super early even after taking some autos or getting Lasered once, because he gets in burst range after that. Better SF players know how to manage that burst and tango/salve early to stay up on HP, but if a lower level SF doesn't know this, you can get that one kill (sub-4k there's like no SF players who are good enough to make this not possible). Once you get that one kill, it's sort of impossible for SF to get to that stabilization point because it delays his Bottle so hard and if you get a level advantage, your burst range goes way up.
If you go Laser Rocket the lane is kind of just about punishing him levels 1-4 pre-Bottle, but that's actually way easier cuz everyone goes Wraith+pooled regen now and not Bottle rush even though Bottle rush with more Branches (like 4 rather than the normal 2) makes it way harder to punish your low level game (because Bottle makes it easier to keep your HP topped up and not end up in situations where you don't have enough regen).
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EPT
