You replace it with Satanic at 6 items. AS shouldn't be a problem though because you should already have like 2 primary AS items (e.g. Mjoll+BFly) at that point.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

March 04 2015 17:21 GMT

#21082

It's actually a bit interesting since PPD claims that you need aghs for void to be good (although his team runs it exclusively offlane where aghs is much better) and it's hard to suggest that any other item outperforms refresher in a 6-slot situation so then you have BoTs/BKB/Butterfly/Mjollnir/Aghs/Refresher

I'm not really sure what the plan is but i think if u skip aghs then yeah its bots/bkb/bfly/mjoll/satanic/refresher. I wouldn't sell mom until u need the slot right.

plus there's always games vs a PA or butterflies where u need shit like MKB right

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 04 2015 17:37 GMT

#21083

Refresher's more 7th slot in that it's better than any other item when it's off CD, but worse than any other item when it's on CD. So you just ditch the least useful of your remaining 5 items and hope you don't suck so bad at using Chrono that you can lose a 6 item double Chrono fight.

Slendermang

United States6 Posts

March 04 2015 17:45 GMT

#21084

Can someone give me a rundown on things to do in downtime as a roaming Mirana? I get that just by not appearing on the map I'm a threat to the enemy but when I don't have the opportunity to gank the lanes and there's no available open lanes (usually isn't in the first 10 minutes) what should I be doing? Is stacking jungle camps and spamming star fall viable? I often find myself having to rely way too much on getting assist gold and exp from fights and landing arrows isn't reliable.

Nightmarjoo

United States3360 Posts

March 04 2015 18:30 GMT

#21085

Don't touch starfall. Throw arrows at people every cd, control runes, pull camps or the wave (offlane near t2 through river probably), and just scare people the rest of the time.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 04 2015 18:36 GMT

#21086

You can stack camps if you're near them, and possibly clear them later, but low ranks of Starfall are pretty inefficient to use, and you don't want to start leveling it up early just to clear stacks.

Slendermang

United States6 Posts

March 04 2015 18:41 GMT

#21087

I see, thats a pretty good point I always had maxed starfall because in my mind was a source of reliable damage and went something like 4/1/1, so you're recommending just foregoing levels of it for maxing arrow? I guess if I don't land the arrow it wont matter anyway and the bonus damage on it would be much better when I do.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

March 04 2015 18:43 GMT

#21088

The thing about early starfall is that if you arrow somebody, in order to starfall them as well you have to leap and starfall and potm doesn't have a big mana pool. So you actually have to base every time you cast spells with that build plus it costs you your leap so you can die fairly often with it etc.

Just arrow is comparable damage at much lower mana investment and much higher safety. You do sacrifice catchup farm potential but oh well.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 04 2015 18:46 GMT

#21089

Arrow gains more damage per rank against single targets than Starfall, even counting the extra star damage, and you won't engage on a missed arrow anyway.

Comeh

United States18919 Posts

March 04 2015 18:48 GMT

#21090

Depending on the game (offlane especially), I like going for 2 points in arrow, and then maxing her q (while mana efficient, it can help her farm). It's a bit more balanced of a build that lets you transition into farming reasonably.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 04 2015 18:49 GMT

#21091

It's sort of situational based on the pace of the game. Offlane you actually need to do a lot of catch-up farming to be a useful hero, so you do want to max Starfall sooner rather than later.

Vaelone

Finland4400 Posts

March 04 2015 19:16 GMT

#21092

Is there anything similar to Aui2000's replay analysis videos?

Slendermang

United States6 Posts

March 04 2015 19:28 GMT

#21093

Simply Dota on YouTube is pretty good, Lumi's YouTube has some analysis as well and there's a Dendi vod on midding if you're interested in that.

GentleDrill

United Kingdom672 Posts

March 04 2015 20:39 GMT

#21094

[edit] Fuck I replied to a post on the previous page like an ass.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

March 05 2015 01:49 GMT

#21095

how do i deal with shadow fiend mid? i feel like once he gets his 2nd level into necromastery, i just can't last hit vs him. not sure if i was being lazy bc i was drinking but i was playing TA and he was getting the better of me.

heavy gankage?

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

March 05 2015 02:42 GMT

#21096

TA gains more damage from Refraction than SF does from Necromastery, even if he has max souls.

If you just let him farm and get high enough level to Raze waves, you'll have to lasthit under tower, but the lane is so volatile before that, it's really not possible to pinpoint specifically one thing you're doing wrong, because as a whole if your fundamentals are better than his, you will crush him.

Abusing Refraction denies is super important (hitting allied creeps doesn't use up Refraction charges so you can "save" Refraction charges to lasthit/harass by hitting allied creeps instead and using Psi Blades splash to actually get the lasthit or do damage to the enemy), but positioning, general lasthitting, creep control, etc. are all important as well.

SilverSkyLark

Philippines8437 Posts

March 05 2015 09:37 GMT

#21097

and yeah having your supports gank maybe 2-4 times when the SF gets too greedy would also help.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

March 05 2015 13:27 GMT

#21098

On March 05 2015 11:42 TheYango wrote:
TA gains more damage from Refraction than SF does from Necromastery, even if he has max souls.

If you just let him farm and get high enough level to Raze waves, you'll have to lasthit under tower, but the lane is so volatile before that, it's really not possible to pinpoint specifically one thing you're doing wrong, because as a whole if your fundamentals are better than his, you will crush him.

Abusing Refraction denies is super important (hitting allied creeps doesn't use up Refraction charges so you can "save" Refraction charges to lasthit/harass by hitting allied creeps instead and using Psi Blades splash to actually get the lasthit or do damage to the enemy), but positioning, general lasthitting, creep control, etc. are all important as well.

yeah i was using my denies. i think maybe it was bc drinking bc i felt like the matchup *should* favor the TA. she's not one of my most practiced either so if it's a lane i probably should have won, i will have to work on it

i feel like this is a problem in most matchups vs sf for me though, so i'll consider yelling at my friends to come middle more frequently to pressure him when I'm not playing a hero who can keep up with his dmg output.