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On March 03 2015 07:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
clock is excellent for disrupting farmed carries too, you don't have to just "kill the supports". Don't forget, hookshot stuns through BKB and they can't run out of cogs even if BKB'd as well. You can always just hook+cogs their enormous tiny and just turn on blademail. If he BKB's, you forcestaff out of ur cogs and he has to sit there hitting cogs while his team dies. Clock has perfectly fine farming capability in between skirmishes with flare good for farming both empty lanes as well as helping flash farm and battery assault being great for clearing the jungle in a pinch.
Itemization is very hard on clockwerk though. Blademail, forcestaff and aghs are all near-core but leave you with limited damage and only passable survivability. It's important to realize when you need to skip some of those for more defensive or offensive items depending on the game. Orchid clock is one that i saw recently that really opens up options for ganking more evasive heroes.
Clock is a complex hero, chances are there isn't any 1 thing that you are doing wrong that is going to fix ur game.
Thanks, that's helpful. I have a hard time picking what items to buy because I always want Aghs/Blademail but that makes me very reliant on my skills to be effective because, like you said, I don't do much damage on my own or tank very well. So that's something I can work on.
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United States47024 Posts
Buying Agha too early in the game is arguably one of the most common itemization mistakes on Clock, IMO.
Sometimes there are the kind of games where you actually do need the super-short CD to run around killing people, but a ton of the time, you can't make efficient use of it until later when fights draw out long enough to need a 2nd or 3rd hook.
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On March 03 2015 08:10 TheYango wrote:
Buying Agha too early in the game is arguably one of the most common itemization mistakes on Clock, IMO.
Sometimes there are the kind of games where you actually do need the super-short CD to run around killing people, but a ton of the time, you can't make efficient use of it until later when fights draw out long enough to need a 2nd or 3rd hook.
I see.
I usually only pick him when there are a lot of squishy guys on the other side, so basically I want hook available as often as possible because I can hook in, battery, cogs and kill them in one go. But perhaps if they're playing a bit more defensively and are not as gankable I should try to hold out on the Aghs. What do you recommend getting first for a more tanky team? Something like Force Staff to be able to cogs their fatty and get out safely?
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at low mmr clock is amazing for pickoffs like you're describing because his range allows you to punish far more positioning errors than most heroes. however, at higher levels you wont find these opportunities nearly as often, and people are better at counterplaying it even if you do catch someone out.
in high skill games clock is all about controlling the most dangerous enemy hero with hookshot and cogs. remember that quite often it is actually better NOT to trap your target in with you, especially if you don't have forcestaff or blademail available (which btw are definitely more core than aghs). you can use the window the hookshot stun gives you to reposition and push the target wherever you want. you can even push people into the river or onto cliffs and shit, cogs is honestly such a clowny op ability, hookshot is great but this is the ability that makes this hero strong.
this is also why you sometimes actually want bkb as your second or third item, if the enemy team groups up and has lots of lockdown you are going to have a hard time getting much out of the hero.
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Can you save someone from Reaper's Scythe with Venge Swap?
I fee like sometimes I can and sometimes I can't.. maybe timing?
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no you cant
but obviously if they cast scythe before the target reaches the killing threshold (with the intention of doing more damage during the delay) and you swap out the target they won't die if they don't take more damage.
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Oh I see. So you mean once they're targeted for Scythe it will hit regardless, but if they're counting on doing additional damage during the animation to get them to critical damage I can still swap them and prevent the Scythe from killing them even if it connects? Helpful thx.
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On March 04 2015 04:46 DinoMight wrote:
Oh I see. So you mean once they're targeted for Scythe it will hit regardless, but if they're counting on doing additional damage during the animation to get them to critical damage I can still swap them and prevent the Scythe from killing them even if it connects? Helpful thx.
Yep, exactly. Keep in mind that the threshold for each of the scythe levels are different and with agh's it is also different. Oh, and Huskar is just confusing as are Meepo + Visage.
There's a few spells that will save you from reaper's scythe damage (oracle magic immune thingy, omni repel), and some that will make it so that he isn't guaranteed the kill (sd disrupt, od imprison). Not really the question that was asked but it's related closely.
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United States47024 Posts
The animation for Scythe in DotA 2 makes you think it's a projectile spell because of the projectile originating from Necrolyte when the damage connects. However, that effect is purely visual, and the spell doesn't use that projectile to do the damage at all.
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What about Supernova aghs? I know it has some interesting mechanics with False Promise (the heal/dmg is delayed until the end of Supernova and is applied to the units now full HP iirc), but does that carry over to reaper's Scythe?
(Though it's sort of a silly question to ask, I think Supernova would just make you immune to taking the damage)
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we need an "ask yango about highly obscure interactions between strange abilities, especially ones that work differently between dota 1 and 2" thread
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Hey Yango I saw you on Akroma's friends list last night, did you know you were famous?
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United States47024 Posts
On March 04 2015 05:20 Logo wrote:
What about Supernova aghs? I know it has some interesting mechanics with False Promise (the heal/dmg is delayed until the end of Supernova and is applied to the units now full HP iirc), but does that carry over to reaper's Scythe?
(Though it's sort of a silly question to ask, I think Supernova would just make you immune to taking the damage)
Yeah Supernova just provides invulnerability, so Reaper's tries to deal damage and fails to do so.
False Promise needed the special clause to do damage at the end because it doesn't actually do "damage"--it's HP removal equal to the net amount of damage that would be taken (yes I know technically HP removal isn't a real damage type anymore, but there's still random shit that still uses it and False Promise is one of them). Since HP removal can be dealt to invulnerable units, this lead to some weird interactions. For example. Panda could die during his ulti, and the split Pandas would still last till the ult ended, but Panda would get no XP for any kills/assists they got--so they just fixed it so that if you were gonna die, it happens at the end so goofy stuff like that doesn't happen.
On March 04 2015 05:23 FHDH wrote:
Hey Yango I saw you on Akroma's friends list last night, did you know you were famous?
Who?
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I would imagine ES agh rocks are the same premise as phoenix supernova saves in regards to reaper's scythe.
I was actually referring to fate's edict on oracle (as reaper's scythe is magic damage), but false promise works too.
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On March 04 2015 05:57 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 05:20 Logo wrote:
What about Supernova aghs? I know it has some interesting mechanics with False Promise (the heal/dmg is delayed until the end of Supernova and is applied to the units now full HP iirc), but does that carry over to reaper's Scythe?
(Though it's sort of a silly question to ask, I think Supernova would just make you immune to taking the damage) Yeah Supernova just provides invulnerability, so Reaper's tries to deal damage and fails to do so. False Promise needed the special clause to do damage at the end because it doesn't actually do "damage"--it's HP removal equal to the net amount of damage that would be taken (yes I know technically HP removal isn't a real damage type anymore, but there's still random shit that still uses it and False Promise is one of them). Since HP removal can be dealt to invulnerable units, this lead to some weird interactions. For example. Panda could die during his ulti, and the split Pandas would still last till the ult ended, but Panda would get no XP for any kills/assists they got--so they just fixed it so that if you were gonna die, it happens at the end so goofy stuff like that doesn't happen. Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 05:23 FHDH wrote:
Hey Yango I saw you on Akroma's friends list last night, did you know you were famous? Who?
Yeah I think I initially was thinking of Reaper's Scythe like it was Culling Blade (i.e. kill beyond a threshold) then realized that was stupid and it's just damage based on missing hp.
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United States12235 Posts
On March 04 2015 05:20 Logo wrote:
What about Supernova aghs? I know it has some interesting mechanics with False Promise (the heal/dmg is delayed until the end of Supernova and is applied to the units now full HP iirc), but does that carry over to reaper's Scythe?
(Though it's sort of a silly question to ask, I think Supernova would just make you immune to taking the damage)
I answer your question in gif form:
![[image loading]](http://giant.gfycat.com/DefensiveUnrealisticBlackfish.gif)
(Big play by me goes south because Weaver timelapses right after Supernova ends)
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I've seen all sorts of players do questionable things in the heat of the moment, but that has to take the cake for poor decision making considering it's a 6 second decision in the making.
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Is it possible to queue actions for an ability/item that is currently on cooldown somehow, via options or something like that?
I remember reading recently something about gaining efficiency with Tinker by queuing a bunch of actions after rearm, but found it awkward at times because my blink was on cooldown before the rearm so I had to wait and cast everything manually.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On March 04 2015 11:43 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2015 05:20 Logo wrote:
What about Supernova aghs? I know it has some interesting mechanics with False Promise (the heal/dmg is delayed until the end of Supernova and is applied to the units now full HP iirc), but does that carry over to reaper's Scythe?
(Though it's sort of a silly question to ask, I think Supernova would just make you immune to taking the damage) I answer your question in gif form: (Big play by me goes south because Weaver timelapses right after Supernova ends)
that is so sad
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What do I generally replace my MoM with as Void. I went Satanic one game but with my MoM gone and me replacing Power Treads with BoTs my atack speed was non existant.
Assault Cuirass? Daedalus? Or do I not replace it at all?
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EPT
