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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On January 16 2015 16:43 goody153 wrote: holy crap i actually thought nether ward was an exception and does deal damage within ult I'm pretty sure he gets zapped when he initially casts it if he's near the ward | ||
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Xxazn4lyfe51xX
United States976 Posts
On January 16 2015 17:27 ahswtini wrote: I'm pretty sure he gets zapped when he initially casts it if he's near the ward Right. The ward does the damage before the cast, so the initial mana cost for the jump will zap him if he's in range. Once he's in ball form though, he's invulnerable, so the additional mana cost/distance won't result in the ward damaging him. | ||
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Sansai
Austria188 Posts
off: veno+undy mid: lina safe: rhasta supp and ?? or better question, what carries do qualify for such a lineup? is a woods axe/NP pick legit? | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On January 19 2015 02:37 Sansai wrote: considering an ez 20 min pubstomp lineup, what is your carry pick with off: veno+undy mid: lina safe: rhasta supp and ?? or better question, what carries do qualify for such a lineup? is a woods axe/NP pick legit? id like drow there, she's good for early throning imo and gives a lot of extra power to the lina | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It could stand to do with a stronger reliable disable though--most of the ones you've picked are stronger with a setup stun (Disruptor, PotM, Lina)--except you didn't pick any heroes with setup stuns. | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
On January 19 2015 02:37 Sansai wrote: considering an ez 20 min pubstomp lineup, what is your carry pick with off: veno+undy mid: lina safe: rhasta supp and ?? or better question, what carries do qualify for such a lineup? is a woods axe/NP pick legit? (I'm a godawful drafter) what if you ran aggressive tri with veno mid and LD safe? is that a terrible idea? | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 19 2015 02:37 Sansai wrote: considering an ez 20 min pubstomp lineup, what is your carry pick with off: veno+undy mid: lina safe: rhasta supp and ?? or better question, what carries do qualify for such a lineup? is a woods axe/NP pick legit? jugg is probably the best carry for this sort of thing. Healing ward makes 5 man push extremely strong + rhasta jugg is a decent lane, and he scales late if you have to go late. Luna is an out of meta alternative (this was basically how she was used when people played her). Gyro is a bit less stable of an alternative but still got ridiculous laning power and teamfight. There's also unconventional things like pugna or leshrac carry if you want a deathball at like 15 minutes in. The mid lina is a little weird. But most people with drafts like this are trying to make something like the mid lina work. Axe does ok, Furion not as much, wouldn't want to jungle either if you picked them though. | ||
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eieio
United States14512 Posts
god damn I wish I was better at thinking about drafts tt | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On January 19 2015 02:37 Sansai wrote: considering an ez 20 min pubstomp lineup, what is your carry pick with off: veno+undy mid: lina safe: rhasta supp and ?? or better question, what carries do qualify for such a lineup? is a woods axe/NP pick legit? I think rasta get played really badly in pubs and mostly tends to feed without some farmpriority in 6.83, i dont pick him anymore. I suggest an aggro initiatior for a support like "spirit breaker" and just fuck lanes up from lvl2 and onwards, every 12 seconds. Undying will love that: A charge around undyings lvl5/6 into a lvl3 tombstone against a squishy trilane means triplekill in alot of games. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 19 2015 03:51 eieio wrote: Jugg makes a lot of sense to me there actually god damn I wish I was better at thinking about drafts tt Jugg makes TOO much sense there is the problem. There's a >50% chance that he will get banned out or picked by the other team before you can. Like, he's ideal but you're not going to get him unless you get him in the first phase (and in pubs you might not get him at all). Troll is another good choice if you're aiming for something like juggernaut's presence in lane + ridiculous push without having to get a fragile hero like drow. Sven works if you can cope with his mana issues and meh laning, same for Slardar (though slardar requires a blink so it might be a bit delayed). Those are if you want AOE CC on your carry. Bristle is an ok denial pick that also does teamfight well, but isn't much of a pusher. Alternately on dire you can grab lycan (or ursa) and run over the enemy after grabbing some roshans off the teamfight strength of veno+undying tombstone. Lycan + Veno + SS can demolish towers easily. edit - Unrelated completely. My personal favorite combo to draft is phoenix + undying. Drop tombstone and phoenix ult. They either get covered in zombies or wrecked by the egg. It's honestly a really weak combo, I just like it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2015 03:48 Nevuk wrote: The mid lina is a little weird. But most people with drafts like this are trying to make something like the mid lina work. Axe does ok, Furion not as much, wouldn't want to jungle either if you picked them though. The mid Lina is sort of the most out-of-place in the entire lineup. Part of this is that unless you take a safe lane core that can break open the game on his own, you have a really hard time opening up the push tempo. Most pushing lineups can't just lane for 10-15 minutes, then start pushing. There needs to be a tempo hero that opens up the game and develops his tempo into the other lanes. Lina can do this, but it's generally pretty dependent on her ability to outplay the opponents or setup from teammates, given how unreliable her disable is without help. Unless Lina gets a massive advantage in lane by herself and managed to extend it to the other lanes, it feels really hard for your team to actually break lanes and open up the game, especially since 2-1-2 makes it harder for Rhasta to control the pull and get his levels up fast enough to break safe lane with a fast level 6. If she plays average mid and gets into some bottle-crow stalemate, you're going to have a hard time getting the snowball rolling. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 19 2015 04:29 TheYango wrote: The mid Lina is sort of the most out-of-place in the entire lineup. Part of this is that unless you take a safe lane core that can break open the game on his own, you have a really hard time opening up the push tempo. Most pushing lineups can't just lane for 10-15 minutes, then start pushing. There needs to be a tempo hero that opens up the game and develops his tempo into the other lanes. Lina can do this, but it's generally pretty dependent on her ability to outplay the opponents or setup from teammates, given how unreliable her disable is without help. Unless Lina gets a massive advantage in lane by herself and managed to extend it to the other lanes, it feels really hard for your team to actually break lanes and open up the game, especially since 2-1-2 makes it harder for Rhasta to control the pull and get his levels up fast enough to break safe lane with a fast level 6. If she plays average mid and gets into some bottle-crow stalemate, you're going to have a hard time getting the snowball rolling. Yeah, I honestly would think Lion or even Rhasta mid would make way more sense if you want a mid hero of that sort and put the Lina into a trilane. Veno would probably be the best mid of the listed heroes. It's not that Lina can't be run mid, it's that there's other heroes who do the job either far better or get far more out of going mid. At best you might get an early eul's or blink on her by the timing demanded. A fast level 6 is nice on her but a fast blink + level 6 on lion is far nicer, same deal with Rhasta and Veno can just dominate mid by himself in most scenarios. Farming Lina is fine, but I wouldn't want to put her solo against a PA, Brew, or SF/QoP/Puck. | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
E: had a game 2 hours ago with a similar lineup before i read your post, 26 minute stomp. So much aggro early, gank4life. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/AYCKd.jpg) | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
magic immunity doesnt do much to ta | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2015 04:42 Nevuk wrote: Farming Lina is fine, but I wouldn't want to put her solo against a PA, Brew, or SF/QoP/Puck. Vs PA, SF, or QoP is fine if she's a sufficiently stronger player and can solo-kill them. Brew and Puck they have to be awful to ever allow that to happen. This is why I don't consider mid-Lina to be very friendly for lower-mid level play. There are a ton of heroes she "does fine" against, but given her mediocre impact if not used well, it's not actually worth it unless she's sufficiently better than her opponent as to be able to outright outplay them. In an average scenario where she just has a farm-off against a bottle-crow hero, most of them will outscale her or have greater teamfight impact. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On January 19 2015 04:29 TheYango wrote: The mid Lina is sort of the most out-of-place in the entire lineup. Part of this is that unless you take a safe lane core that can break open the game on his own, you have a really hard time opening up the push tempo. Most pushing lineups can't just lane for 10-15 minutes, then start pushing. There needs to be a tempo hero that opens up the game and develops his tempo into the other lanes. Lina can do this, but it's generally pretty dependent on her ability to outplay the opponents or setup from teammates, given how unreliable her disable is without help. Unless Lina gets a massive advantage in lane by herself and managed to extend it to the other lanes, it feels really hard for your team to actually break lanes and open up the game, especially since 2-1-2 makes it harder for Rhasta to control the pull and get his levels up fast enough to break safe lane with a fast level 6. If she plays average mid and gets into some bottle-crow stalemate, you're going to have a hard time getting the snowball rolling. I feel like the undy veno dual lane sort of does that here? If they play that lane well they will be drawing massive attention around which lina can tp in and laguna someone in the face. Pick LD as a safe lane farmer and the fact that rhasta is a shitty babysitter doesn't matter. Spend the first 15 minutes picking fights around tombstone nova and laguna, if you win them, kill towers with serpents. Maybe Im being overly optimistic but it feels like that should be a decent enough way to kill the down time until radiance. (Unless undy veno fail to do damage to their lane I guess.) I'm not denying that someone like say brew probably fits better as mid than lina though. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
The main problem is that a lot of strong offlaners can easily disrupt Rhasta's ability to get levels, which he actually needs to do in order for the team to really break towers effectively. Undying and Veno are actually very poor at sieging towers, and the teamcomp as is relies heavily on Mass Serpent Wards. While a 3v1 can easily control an offlaner, many strong offlaners can make a 1v2 sufficiently uncomfortable that Rhasta can't get effective farm, either because he has to help the laner, or because the offlaner just steals the pull camps. This is probably why Nevuk suggested Rhasta as mid, because it's a much more reliable way for him to get Arcanes+6, when the entire team basically revolves around that to break towers before the carry gets items. | ||
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