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United States47024 Posts
On December 12 2014 05:46 Dead9 wrote:
imo arcanes is a waste unless youre going to 5man. bane doent really spend mana outside of teamfights, generally enough for your full combo is enough. brown boots blink is rly strong on this hero
It depends on your skill order. Unless you got a lot of Stats, you usually need some mana item to cast everything at level 11. You need to be something like 0-4-2-2 + 3xStats to be able to cast 1 Sap, 1 Nightmare and Ulti (without any Stats, your level 11 base mana is 559 while all the spells together cost 665). Plus, it's not exactly uncommon that you get to cast 2 Brain Saps in a fight, so you do want a bit more than just "enough to cast everything".
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keep in mind that the main reason to level nightmare is that it's range increases so it's definitely worth levelling if you at all can afford to miss the points in stats.
Yes, a blink does mitigate range issues obviously.
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- On all 5's i like TQ+wand+urn+force & consumables, i can allways contribute and be usefull with these 4 items+consumables which you can get in most games just by being present at fights.
- Aghs lategame pretty nice too with the new changes but i find it hard to farm 4200 gold extra, maybe a veil could be better in most games as it has a 20 second 600 aoe impact increasing your teams damage instead of only your own, handy when your pushing highground and its 1600 gold cheaper.
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Banes starting stats are super crazy strong btw, with 4 armor 55-61 dmg and 568hp you can straight up trade hits and win against a LOT of heroes. Only time I put a point in enfeeble is if im up against a core in the lane that requires items to truly be effective and lhs with attacks (slark and weaver are the big two that I see a decent amount in longlane)
I don't really like aghs on a 5 bane because blink, bkb, and necrobook are just so strong on him.
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drive-by enfeebling stuff like an SF or invoker middle at level 1 is hilarious btw
even though it kinda ruins ur game too
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u shouldnt really have mana problems with a stick
idk i havent ever needed arcanes. i do go 0412 most of the time tho
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Would you go Urn before Arcanes on Bane?
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urn doesn't help u with ur "cant cast all ur spells" issue but it is fine on the hero if ur team needs an urn carrier.
There's definitely a lot of heroes that can use an urn better but that doesn't make urn bad on bane just less core than on say a pudge or similar.
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You could even get an early nulls for value if needed. Nothing wrong with nulls if you have some magicdamage on your team so you can upgrade it lategame if needed.
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For Bane I like to build Tranq, Soul Ring, Null Talis and a wand, at least. Good mana sustain, gets you even more tanky and allows you to pick up an early point in Enfeeble for messing with the farming heroes.
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United States47024 Posts
Tranq+SR isn't really that great for Bane because, as Dead9 said, your out-of-combat mana usage isn't that high. If you're going to get a mana item, you'd much rather get one that gives you max mana straight up than one that's so regen-focused.
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Does Bane's mana drain on the ult actually ever solve any of his mana issues? I don't play the hero, but the awkward "Oh hey his ulti drains mana"... does that ever matter?
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On December 12 2014 09:23 Fleetfeet wrote:
Does Bane's mana drain on the ult actually ever solve any of his mana issues? I don't play the hero, but the awkward "Oh hey his ulti drains mana"... does that ever matter?
Don't forget, it isn't just used to restore your mana, but also reduce theirs. On mana starved heroes it could be quite nice.
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If you can afford to hold a spell till after your ulti (and actually get a good cast), I guess it helps you get all three spells off without too much +mana. I don't think relying on it is a good idea, though, since even in the best case that's a good 5 extra seconds your team is waiting for someone to be nightmared or nuked. In the worst case you get interrupted and then have nothing.
It does help with follow-up brainsaps in a normal build though.
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On December 12 2014 09:23 Fleetfeet wrote:
Does Bane's mana drain on the ult actually ever solve any of his mana issues? I don't play the hero, but the awkward "Oh hey his ulti drains mana"... does that ever matter?
It matters when following up a full channel Fiend's Grip with a Brain Sap in a true 1v1 situation. I think I get about 1 kill per 2 games in this situation, where I wouldn't have mana for Brain Sap without the mana drain.
(E): To clarify, the mana drain means Bane is a solo kill threat at level 6-8 with about 325-350 mana, instead of 375-400. Closer to 300 against other Int supports, the heroes most likely to die to the combo.
There's also a rarer combo that happens at higher levels, Brain Sap -> full Fiend's Grip -> Nightmare -> right click once or twice after Nightmare ends -> Brain Sap.
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What are good solo offlaners to try out as some starting in the role?
I usually play hard support/5 spot but I'm looking into expanding into solo offlane. I've tried tidehunter most of the time and 1v1 match ups against solo melee heroes in the opponents safelane are usually manageable. I can still get a blink dagger around the 15 minute mark if I don't die. However, whenever I go up against a dual lane and the support is ranged, I usually get zoned out by the support and at that point, I just concede too many last hits to the carry and the lane is lost. There was an instance that I played tide against Jakiro and Anti Mage and the Jakiro just liquid fire-d me whenever I tried to anchor smash. There was another game where I went up against a carry + Skywrath and I can't even stay in cs range that long cuz Skywrath somehow deals a lot of damage.
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On December 14 2014 01:00 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What are good solo offlaners to try out as some starting in the role?
I usually play hard support/5 spot but I'm looking into expanding into solo offlane. I've tried tidehunter most of the time and 1v1 match ups against solo melee heroes in the opponents safelane are usually manageable. I can still get a blink dagger around the 15 minute mark if I don't die. However, whenever I go up against a dual lane and the support is ranged, I usually get zoned out by the support and at that point, I just concede too many last hits to the carry and the lane is lost. There was an instance that I played tide against Jakiro and Anti Mage and the Jakiro just liquid fire-d me whenever I tried to anchor smash. There was another game where I went up against a carry + Skywrath and I can't even stay in cs range that long cuz Skywrath somehow deals a lot of damage.
If you want to win 1vs2 only brood does it against all lanes.. You don't die and get xp = winning if 1vs2.
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On December 14 2014 01:00 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What are good solo offlaners to try out as some starting in the role?
I usually play hard support/5 spot but I'm looking into expanding into solo offlane. I've tried tidehunter most of the time and 1v1 match ups against solo melee heroes in the opponents safelane are usually manageable. I can still get a blink dagger around the 15 minute mark if I don't die. However, whenever I go up against a dual lane and the support is ranged, I usually get zoned out by the support and at that point, I just concede too many last hits to the carry and the lane is lost. There was an instance that I played tide against Jakiro and Anti Mage and the Jakiro just liquid fire-d me whenever I tried to anchor smash. There was another game where I went up against a carry + Skywrath and I can't even stay in cs range that long cuz Skywrath somehow deals a lot of damage.
I think you are overestimating what is needed to win the offlane + maybe not enough regen. A solo support Jak should not be able to dominate a tide in offlane. Tide is one of the best heroes for withstanding support harass in offlane.
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-Tide: I read somewhere that if you get a stout and 2 levels in kraken, your virtually indestructible at earlier levels.
-CW: If you play centaur warrunner, 1 point in E combined with a stout shield makes heros with the same basedamage as weaver take more damage from his rightclick then cw.
- Darkseer allways finds farm but he is harder to be effective with in pubs
- Weaver pretty straight forward and can be a bitch with only a PT+RoH but not against a silence like swm.
- Timbersaw's reactive armour pretty descent and the chain is a good escape but not against a silence.
- Nyx is great, 3hp regen and he needs no farm only xp, 1 or more points in E to make him almost ungankable.
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On December 14 2014 01:55 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 01:00 SilverSkyLark wrote:
What are good solo offlaners to try out as some starting in the role?
I usually play hard support/5 spot but I'm looking into expanding into solo offlane. I've tried tidehunter most of the time and 1v1 match ups against solo melee heroes in the opponents safelane are usually manageable. I can still get a blink dagger around the 15 minute mark if I don't die. However, whenever I go up against a dual lane and the support is ranged, I usually get zoned out by the support and at that point, I just concede too many last hits to the carry and the lane is lost. There was an instance that I played tide against Jakiro and Anti Mage and the Jakiro just liquid fire-d me whenever I tried to anchor smash. There was another game where I went up against a carry + Skywrath and I can't even stay in cs range that long cuz Skywrath somehow deals a lot of damage. I think you are overestimating what is needed to win the offlane + maybe not enough regen. A solo support Jak should not be able to dominate a tide in offlane. Tide is one of the best heroes for withstanding support harass in offlane.
Jakiro's liquid fire is magical though, tide's good at withstanding physical damage but liquid fire is a free spammable magic damage that I could see doing very well against a tide.
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EPT
