EPTI bet it's much easier to do using the Storm Panda's AOE Dispel Magic, but I haven't tried it.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 1000
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Excalibur_Z
United States12279 Posts
I bet it's much easier to do using the Storm Panda's AOE Dispel Magic, but I haven't tried it. | ||
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Jisira
470 Posts
Are there any decent mids against Viper and Razor? Like, very few mids actually manage to get more than an even trade against these guys. I always end up banning them both, banning one or grabbing the other or just play them against each other. I can't see how most people don't get crushed or are forced to try and stay even against these floating piles of annoyance. We've tried so much stuff (no homo) but I just don't see what works decently against them. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:06 pedrlz wrote: how do i learn to be less aggressive and teach my friend how to be less passive? we usually play support with one or two more friends it usually turns into I play roaming all gaming and him sitting behind the carry just leaching xp from the carry some games turns into I feeding a lot because my ganks doesn't work also I feel like we lose a lot of ground in some games because this friends doesn't know how to be aggressive and punish the offlaner we are pretty old dota players, so it is kind hard to change i feel Communication mostly. At the very least you can agree to have one of you lead the duo (possibly switching off). When someone is leading the other person should spend their time bending their play to their style and following your lead. So if you're leading your friend should be following your lead while you roam and going for ganks when you do, even if they think it's a bad idea. They can talk about it later to help you improve, but by going with you they teach you that you were wrong in your evaluation of the situation and you can't blame it on your friend not coming in. On December 09 2014 08:33 Jisira wrote: I have a question that bothered me for some time. Are there any decent mids against Viper and Razor? Like, very few mids actually manage to get more than an even trade against these guys. I always end up banning them both, banning one or grabbing the other or just play them against each other. I can't see how most people don't get crushed or are forced to try and stay even against these floating piles of annoyance. We've tried so much stuff (no homo) but I just don't see what works decently against them. I don't know what specific match-ups I'd recommend, but I do know that losing your lane is often relative. Like if you put up a viper vs a DP and the DP 'loses' but still gets XP and some farm with her nuke it can still be a net benefit for her team. Think of a situation where your team has a strong early push line-up. Ok DP got bullied so maybe viper has some farm and is a little ahead of the DP, but if the viper can't transfer that momentum into kills and team momentum then the DP team can group up and take objectives. If DP's team is 5-manning successfully and taking objectives then viper's laning presence has amounted to squat and the DP (plus her team) will start pulling ahead. Viper's laning advantage suddenly poofs and is completely gone. You don't need to outright win the lane, there are match-ups where the bar for being worthwhile is lower than winning. It all depends on how the heroes transition out of the laning stage and what their expected impact is on the mid-game. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:12 Excalibur_Z wrote: If the Fortune's End projectile has already begun casting, it will remove Repel (but I think it doesn't do damage to the Repeled person either?). It is also possible to dispel the Eul's effect with purges but the timing for it is pretty strict, to the point that you're probably only going to get it to happen through luck. For Eul's, the purge has to land after they use the item but before they become untargetable, so that's probably a single frame window. I've seen both of these things happen in a game, so that's just some anecdotal evidence. I bet it's much easier to do using the Storm Panda's AOE Dispel Magic, but I haven't tried it. Fortune's end has an AOE, if you hit a target near something with repel it does remove it. It can also be cast on people in Eul's (aim at the top of the tornado). | ||
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aboxcar
United States447 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:33 Jisira wrote: I have a question that bothered me for some time. Are there any decent mids against Viper and Razor? Like, very few mids actually manage to get more than an even trade against these guys. I always end up banning them both, banning one or grabbing the other or just play them against each other. I can't see how most people don't get crushed or are forced to try and stay even against these floating piles of annoyance. We've tried so much stuff (no homo) but I just don't see what works decently against them. Sf Zeus invoker Ask your mid.. A good player is usually able to sacrifice some laning adv for overall game adv | ||
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ChunderBoy
3242 Posts
its fine if they got more cs/denies anyway, ppl at low levels fixate too much on laning | ||
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TyrionSC2
United States411 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:33 Jisira wrote: I have a question that bothered me for some time. Are there any decent mids against Viper and Razor? Like, very few mids actually manage to get more than an even trade against these guys. I always end up banning them both, banning one or grabbing the other or just play them against each other. I can't see how most people don't get crushed or are forced to try and stay even against these floating piles of annoyance. We've tried so much stuff (no homo) but I just don't see what works decently against them. Well against viper you can pick brew and spam haze on him. Since viper can only right click it does quite well. (see chessie vs a brew in several pro games) | ||
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govie
9334 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:33 Jisira wrote: I have a question that bothered me for some time. Are there any decent mids against Viper and Razor? Like, very few mids actually manage to get more than an even trade against these guys. I always end up banning them both, banning one or grabbing the other or just play them against each other. I can't see how most people don't get crushed or are forced to try and stay even against these floating piles of annoyance. We've tried so much stuff (no homo) but I just don't see what works decently against them. See for yourself, a midpicker table in the spoiler : + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://dotametrics.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/1v1matchupchart.png) You can find the topics regarding 1v1 here on page 2 http://dotametrics.wordpress.com/page/2/ #6: Viper Viper is a peculiar case. Once you move past the dominating duo of Broodmother and Bane he does pretty well, but he doesn’t dominate the bottom half of the 25 most common nearly as consistently as the rest of the top 8. Outworld Devourer is an even matchup, along with Tinker and Silencer, and of the three only OD has one other matchup against the top 8 that’s better than 40%. Viper also struggles against Phantom Assassin and Pugna. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Jisira
470 Posts
On December 09 2014 12:18 Ack1027 wrote: Jisira your problem is only considering popular heroes. There are heroes who outright crush viper and razor to varying degrees. Razor especially. Dominant mid's almost always have counters in dota nowadays. Boots first on a lot of heroes will break even with razor like ta, or you force them to get boots start as well which is worse for razor. High skill lone druid, magnus, weaver, necro can kill or keep up with razor/viper among others. As others mentioned there's also a set of break-even farm only heroes vs them as well. The only mentioned MUs I like is Necro vs both, as well as Magnus vs Viper. So many of the match-ups just lose or require so much forethought (like Sylla vs Razor, worst MU ever). I just wondered if the was heroes that could match their lane presence that I didn't know about (as my team doesn't believe in Necro mid). | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Also, if your team doesn't "believe in" Necro mid, none of the stuff that beats those heroes is gonna pass the smell test for them, lol. | ||
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Jisira
470 Posts
On December 10 2014 04:24 TheYango wrote: If you're only concerned with winning lane there are a bunch of 1v1 heroes like Brood, Bane, or Enchan that you could pick, but as Beesa said, it's not worth bending over backwards to win lane vs. Viper. Also, if your team doesn't "believe in" Necro mid, none of the stuff that beats those heroes is gonna pass the smell test for them, lol. They believe that SB can be picked 80% of all games, that Zeus is optimal for the offlane, Midas into BF AM is something that can be considered most games... They're pretty good players (~4.5k-5.3k now) but their ideas are so... I don't even know. Meh, I guess I'll have to woop their asses until they get it. I'm just bored of the prevalence of Razor/Viper/DP. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
Naga can trade well enough as well, Lycan too. It just is that they usually have to work a lot less than you to "win the lane", but it evens out in the end because Viper doesn't really use farm well. Razor and DP OTOH can be serious treats. | ||
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Archeon
3274 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On December 10 2014 12:17 Blackfeather wrote: Does crit amplify damage dealing orbs like manaburn and oov and stuff like Naix' feast? What. Um, crit amplify damage.... OH. Yeah I see what you mean. It depends on the spell. I thought you meant slardar's ult. Here's the answer for you - http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=5071 | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
On December 10 2014 12:38 Nevuk wrote: What. Um, crit amplify damage.... OH. Yeah I see what you mean. It depends on the spell. I thought you meant slardar's ult. Here's the answer for you - http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=5071 Common thread there: if an ability is giving you extra attack damage - read: does not simply DO damage but explicitly ADDS TO your damage - it can crit. That is because item crit applies to your right-click damage and only that. If I am incorrect about this someone please let me know. | ||
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