you wouldnt, but in regual team game as qe you would go midas. thats what im saying. the only reason you might go midas in 1v1 is so you can actually pratice your "normal" build in team games. I mean id assume most people playing 1v1 pratice mode is so that they can pratice their mid games, not so they can win in that niche 1v1 mode game.

DucK-

Singapore11446 Posts

July 09 2014 05:44 GMT

#262

On July 09 2014 14:08 ReligionLOL wrote:
you wouldnt, but in regual team game as qe you would go midas. thats what im saying. the only reason you might go midas in 1v1 is so you can actually pratice your "normal" build in team games. I mean id assume most people playing 1v1 pratice mode is so that they can pratice their mid games, not so they can win in that niche 1v1 mode game.

Ah OK makes sense then.

ReligionLOL

United States137 Posts

July 09 2014 19:42 GMT

#263

but my question is left unanswered. say we are playing 1v1 mode as qe invoker and we want to win. we will not do the standard build for 5v5 games (fast midas). but what to build instead? I was thinking a fast euls so you can get guaranteed sun strikes

NeoRussia

Canada381 Posts

July 10 2014 00:16 GMT

#264

QE 1v1 most likely basi ring into medallion is your best bet. And bracers.

Dead9

United States4725 Posts

July 10 2014 01:57 GMT

#265

treads/phase + wand + null tali + null tali + null tali + null tali
if it makes it past that any cost effective item like blink euls mom vanguard hood dagon etc would probably be ok

ReligionLOL

United States137 Posts

July 10 2014 18:35 GMT

#266

yeah I was thinking a few more talis would be good

Aerisky

United States12128 Posts

August 05 2014 20:25 GMT

#267

As someone new to the hero who wants to learn, should I learn QW invoker or QE invoker first? QE looks more fun/appealing to me because of the pushing potential and damage you get, but it seems like quas wex is much stronger in this meta, and tornado emp, ghost walk cold snap combos (the list goes on) are really good.

How do these guides look?
http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/peppo-opaccios-super-in-depth-competitive-invoker-guide-for-all-skill-levels-6-81b-9223
http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/in7-gankers-guide-to-invoker-1794

Thanks in advance!

clickrush

Switzerland3257 Posts

August 05 2014 21:31 GMT

#268

QW/QE are only opening builds. at some point you are going to learn and use every spell. QE is more straight forward and fun at the beginning from my experience that is why most beginners will use it to learn do the first steps with him. after some point you will try out different variations. by the way: the "meta" doesn't dictate how you do things its the other way around (common mistake).

Aerisky

United States12128 Posts

August 05 2014 22:02 GMT

#269

ah yeah you're absolutely right, definitely dependent on a game-to-game basis what would work better, looking at the opponent's heroes. and yeah makes sense, eventually you'll be using most if not all of the spells depending on the situation. thanks for the advice!

Galemorum

Indonesia1 Post

August 15 2014 06:53 GMT

#270

mod edit

User was warned for this post

clickrush

Switzerland3257 Posts

August 27 2014 15:16 GMT

#271

I want to confirm/add to the 4q 4e opening:

- It's a good opening vs tough lane opponents since you get very high autoattack damage (also from your spirit/s) and regen
- It's really good if you plan on staying on lane for a longish time since you push really fast and defend vs any pusher (you can hold against a veno easily) while contributing with sunstrike now and then. The health regen helps to stay forever.
- It's good for an early necro rush since you can pretty much stay until you farmed it. also synergizes well with it.
- fastest push opening
- You won't have mana problems since your main spell is very cheap.

- But It's an immobile build. You'll get outganked and you don't have the utility a Wex invoker provides.
- You don't have a great defense vs ganks, since your only disables are coldsnap and icewall. Also you don't get the MS from Wex.
- You won't be invoking spells until much later. This can be an upside for beginners. Agh rush is not recommended on this build, Wex is better suited for it.

If you can plan on staying in lane and you think your other lanes can too or will straight up win then this is a very strong opening. But if there will be alot of action and deaths going on then probably not. It's a good build to get alot of early t1/t2 towers against a more passive team. And I recommend it to beginners since you farm easily, have a higher health pool and regen and you won't be invoking too many spells until later.

edit: my recommended build would be something along the lines of:
brown boots + small item (+ health from early belt) -> mek + necro 1, 2, 3 + travel -> agh

Checkm8

Japan627 Posts

August 28 2014 14:48 GMT

#272

On August 28 2014 00:16 clickrush wrote:
I want to confirm/add to the 4q 4e opening:

- But It's an immobile build. You'll get outganked and you don't have the utility a Wex invoker provides.
- You don't have a great defense vs ganks, since your only disables are coldsnap and icewall. Also you don't get the MS from Wex.
- You won't be invoking spells until much later. This can be an upside for beginners. Agh rush is not recommended on this build, Wex is better suited for it.

Why would Agh's rush be better suited for QW? What build would Agh's rush be good with anyways? I think most of the time you wouldn't need the Agh's upgrade early on since either the spells are on cooldown or would require more mana...

Archeon

3251 Posts

August 28 2014 15:59 GMT

#273

Tbh i really dont like aghs rush, i think aghs get only relevant when you have some levels in exort as well as in wex. Most guides i read delay the second lvl or invoke because you have only 3/4 (E/W) spells you want to use anyways until later on (and invoke lvl 2 is barely an upgrade). That being said while i have never seen it win in pro games, i have seen aghs rush even on exort, so there has to be a good reason for it aside from being fun.

@QE vs QW for beginners: QW is imo way harder to play and use (aside from ice wall, which is more or less optional at the beginning), so I recommend starting with QE and get used to the whole invoke stuff first. And while QE was already weaker in the laning phase pre-patch, i have read people complaining that the cold snap nerf killed it's threat in the laning phase entirely, so by no means it is better in the current meta.

DucK-

Singapore11446 Posts

August 28 2014 16:07 GMT

#274

Agha rush is rubbish on invoker. The usefulness of Agha is seen only when you have a good mana pool, and good levels, both of which means you should be at high levels and have at least 1 item prior to it.

clickrush

Switzerland3257 Posts

August 29 2014 13:40 GMT

#275

its not as rubbish as you make it sound though. a shorter invoke cd and no manacost i super useful early on for clutch moments. you dont have to spam with it and still play mostly with say tornado emp but youll have the abilty to switch to coldsnap/dblast/ghostwalk much quicker and for free in tight situations.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

August 29 2014 14:19 GMT

#276

No, it's pretty rubbish regardless, lol.

KOFgokuon

United States14892 Posts

August 29 2014 14:24 GMT

#277

there's no reason to ever aim to get aghs pre level 17

Checkm8

Japan627 Posts

August 29 2014 14:32 GMT

#278

Question: Is it ok to max quas before getting exort in a QW build to maximize cold snap damage if you're planning to be a fake clinkz? Or is it not worth it to go past 4 levels of quas?

Shikada

Serbia976 Posts

August 29 2014 14:48 GMT

#279

I have never seen anyone max quas, ever

KOFgokuon

United States14892 Posts

August 29 2014 15:09 GMT

#280

I would never max quas first ever, the emp damage increase and mana drain as well as the tornado distance scaling from wex is way too good to pass up, not to mention the extra MS while in ghost walk, and once you have wex maxed, getting more exort increases your dps so much, you're only getting 7 damage per level of quas, if you hit 5 times during quas (without the attack speed from wex you won't be hitting that fast) that's what, 35 extra damage per level? not worth it