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This thread as most others in the dota2 forum has deteriorated. The thread is actually about how to farm with spectre. NOT about what is the "best" item build.
Dagger doesnt deal huge dmg but it is still aoe dmg. You (or preferably one of your supports) can stack a camp in the woods a couple of times and some kiting + 2 daggers should take care of it. You can also hit two camps at the same time with it.
Sometimes it is ok to use ult to get to lane where you can farm. It is also ok to pop it to reveal the enemey team if they have been missing for some time.
If you have a good start->Try rushing radiance.
If you have a bad start-> Get diff blade.
These two items are the most useful for your illusions. When you have either you should try to be even more active with ult to pick of supports, help out in ganks and get into teamfights. Just dont use it to early or over commit efter using it.
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I agree, after the vanguard nerf it´s not worth to buy it anymore to spec.
However, if you don´t like tranquil boots and you have a point, what regeneration item do you like?
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On December 19 2012 00:36 Unleashing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 23:17 HocusPocus wrote:On December 18 2012 23:06 Erasme wrote:
zhou buys drums everytime on luna. Fear doesnt, so i assume LGD needs luna for something different than eg needs luna for. Luna might be one of the few 1s that get Drums regularly (i wrote "most likely" which implies there are some possibilites to get it on the 1 position). Drums on Spectre just doesnt make much sense to me, its not like im flaming Unleashing or anything, i just dont understand why Drums should be better than vitbooster/Vanguard on Spectre. And the only thing i got from him was that it is more efficient, but that can be said about a bunch of items, that doesnt make it especially good for Spectre. If you think drums are uncommon or rare on first positions i really don't know what to say anymore. Also LGD are just the better team, they understand the hero far better and utilizes it far better. Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 23:03 HocusPocus wrote:On December 18 2012 22:41 Unleashing wrote:On December 18 2012 22:12 HocusPocus wrote:On December 18 2012 21:59 Unleashing wrote:On December 18 2012 21:52 HocusPocus wrote:On December 18 2012 19:31 FoFo wrote:On December 18 2012 09:56 Mithhaike wrote:On December 18 2012 08:46 gostunv wrote:
so i never understood why radiance is a better farming tool over BF. does she just not get enough agi gain aka dmg to make it worth wile?
the only real advantage i see is that your illusions get burn as well. 2 reason. Spectre is a weird carry in the sense that it doesnt do insane right click damage as per the other carries Its job is to tank and disperse damage out. Survivability items are insanely good on her. Radiance is better than BF because as spec,you want to live as long as possible in a teamfight, along with living longer, the radiance therefore does more damage.Its a Tank/Carry in other words...so 1) Radiance does more damage the longer you live,combined with Dispersion its actually extremely damaging. 2) Radiance helps clear out creep waves making it likely that her Desolate works Spec also doesnt make use of BF's regen as her spells are non-spammable. this and you're spending 4K on an item that provides literally 0 benefit to your illusion, while with a radiance you get the burn on their entire team (will be buffed aswell in next patch  ) You also get Radiance so the enemy team cant just ignore you in teamfights, they are kinda forced to focus you earlier in teamfights than without a Radiance (e.g. Battlefury). And i know im repeating stuff here but: Dispersion damage is pure, thats why you want to build a Vanguard over Drums. Survivability items (Heart/Manta) after your Radiance will further boost your Dispersion damage (as Dispersion scales very good with HP). Spectres job is not jumping from hero to hero and kill them with its rightclick damage. Spectre stands in the middle of the fight, "slowly" killing the enemy team. The biggest problem Spectre has right now (imho) is that it really has no ability to push/counterpush pre-radiance. You will lose mapcontrol early and the ability to freely farm your side of the map, delaying your Radiance and therefore weaken your midgame by a great margin as Spectre already is not the fastest farmer (read: cant catch up as fast as Cleave (etc) carries). You don't want to build a vanguard on her at all, vit booster at best. But not a vanguard. Waste of money and cost-ineffecient. hmm you might be right, depends on the enemy heroes i guess. But imho its better than a drum which costs like 500 less and is better on a support post-nerf. Spectre doesnt really need the movespeed with tranquils or phase. I have to agree though, if you skip the RoH you are probably better off (except they have a ck or sth that relies on heavy rightclicking) No it really doesn't depend on the enemy heroes. Upgrading to vanguard is cost-ineffecient, and tranq boots and a vit booster is far more effecient for a spectre. And provides all the regen you should need in lane. And drums aren't for supports only post nerf, there's a reason why it's picked up on more than one hero often by good teams. Because it's just so extremely good to have. Vanguards cost-ineffeciency is a topic that has been up so many times. Drums are most likely not picked up by the 1 (Carry) in the team, its more of a 3-4 position item. And if you are all about efficency why not buy a freaking armlet or midas every game? sometimes you have to build inefficient, doesnt mean that item is ineffective Last time ive seen Spectre was in S4 of Starladder (vP vs NaVi) they picked up a Vanguard as well Are you kidding me? Drums are most likely not picked up by the first position? I guess we'll ignore when DK is run as 1st position? And CK? And Luna? And juggernaut? And so on. And yes, vanguard is ineffecient. There is nearly zero reason to finish a vanguard compared to just having a vit booster and tranqs. Vanguard doesn't provide good regen for the upgrade, it doesn't build into anything, and it doesn't give more HP than a vit booster. The block also quickly loses effeciency especially on heroes with high armor. It's just an item that loses effeciency incredibly rapidly and doesn't build further onto anything. Drums is good for fighting early, i didn't talk about getting drums if you're rushing radiance, i talked about drums if you're going for treads/phase into drum into diffusal because you're NOT going to be building a radiance. But i don't agree with a vanguard in either of the two cases, a vit booster, sure, but not a vanguard.
Okay Drums on early diffu build makes sense, I understand it now, thank you :>
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Spoilers for Empire vs DD in D2L today
+ Show Spoiler + So Empire picked Spec vs DD literally minutes after 6.77 hit. While it looked like DD were well out in front, Link's choice to go Manta before BKB was questionable and Empire pulled back with Spectre getting huge.
Anyone want to comment on Blow's item build? He went for Phase > Aquila > PMS > Radiance. This meant he had a 22 minute Radiance afaik. I think its interesting that he picked up both an Aquila and a PMS, really giving him some breathing room as far as Spec's early game squishyness and mana issues go but could have proved fatal if he had been shutdown in the intervening transition to Relic. Also buying back during a prolonged teamfight with Haunt on CD could be really good, burn down the squishes with that imba ult!
Hard to make an definitive statements off one game and it's probably a case of Empire trying out Spec in 6.77 vs an opponent that they clearly outclass. Or is Spec viable now?
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I'd say that empire outclass DD, spectre isn't a bad hero though, she just has some problems.
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with spec you basically just static farm one lane until you get your radiance, then you just farm whatever you want
it's really, really important that you don't die, since you have to save up 3.8k in one sitting
benchmarks: tranq + vit should be up at 7~10 minutes
radi + tranq + vit should be up at 23~30 minutes
other item builds make you more effective earlier on, but as soon as your radi is done you're a teamfight powerhouse anyway
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aquila and pms both not very good items on spec. empire is just a better team wouldnt mattered.
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This is going to sound weird, but I don't think that you need to have 600 gpm on a spectre for spectre to do its job. Spectre's role is to outcarry as it goes late, and all of her skills scale into the lategame (from puredamage, and dispertion). That's not to say that you don't want gold on spectre; she still needs it to be effective.
However, it is not easy to get a lot of gold on spectre. It is important that she has a very solid laning stage, and that she doesn't die. I think that you simply need a very powerful trilane that can handle whatever is put against her. She will always be a situational last pick.
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Some comments regarding this thread:
- I agree on not getting Vanguard, I like Tranq. really much on any hero who doesnt have another source of regen (e.g. Morphling). The high movement speed bonus and armor are icing cake. Do you guys consider a Vitality Booster mandatory before Radiance? Currently I think that playing passive and only engage opponents if it is a sure kill is better till Radiance is up (implying that having Radiance 1100 gold earlier is stronger).
- PMS is a good situational item if you get harassed alot in lane, why do you think its always bad?
- Ring of Anquila is not needed in my opinion, as you dont have spammable nukes
- Yesterday I got behind in the early game and buyed a Diffusal Blade, as adviced a couple of posts back. The most important thing regarding DB vs Radiance is that they require a different playing style obviously. DB forces one to get aggresive and play a ganky style, while Radiance allows you to sit back and farm up. Playing ganky means that you keep the enemy busy at the cost / risk of own deaths, which hinders the progression to the late game. For that reason I value Radiance much higher, but maybe better players can show us how to play a aggresive mid game Spectre?
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On December 18 2012 03:10 DucK- wrote:
In pubs, don't bother trying to rice a Radiance. You rely on your teammates too much for it.
What I do is solo middle her. Get Bottle/Urn Treads Drums -> Diffusal/Radiance. It's a gank build relying on early levels/runes to dictate momentum. The style was adopted from Pis/2009 in their videos. Many underestimate what she can do early on when she has levels.
Someone tried that last time vs my Brew solo mid....
needless to say it didn't go well for them.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 26 2012 11:57 Jawmare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 03:10 DucK- wrote:
In pubs, don't bother trying to rice a Radiance. You rely on your teammates too much for it.
What I do is solo middle her. Get Bottle/Urn Treads Drums -> Diffusal/Radiance. It's a gank build relying on early levels/runes to dictate momentum. The style was adopted from Pis/2009 in their videos. Many underestimate what she can do early on when she has levels. Someone tried that last time vs my Brew solo mid.... needless to say it didn't go well for them.
Brew crushes a lot of melees in lane, not surprising.
The build is good, but Spec isn't strong enough in lane to support doing that from solo mid unless you're a much better player than your opponent.
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I think sasha/ into Butterfly is your best bet for pubs lol. Honestly,
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Wait, people are saying spectre is a bad carry, because she can be hard to farm with? "No farming abilities, Q_Q"
Are you kidding me? Basically every sinle hard carry in this game does not posses "farming abilities"? AM, Drow, Void, PA, Sniper, Weaver.
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On December 26 2012 21:59 Terkill wrote:
Wait, people are saying spectre is a bad carry, because she can be hard to farm with? "No farming abilities, Q_Q"
Are you kidding me? Basically every sinle hard carry in this game does not posses "farming abilities"? AM, Drow, Void, PA, Sniper, Weaver.
No, you are missing the point. She isn't bad carry, but she isn't as good as other carries. Farming ability doesn't matter, if you get Radiance by last hitting, same as Weaver and Lone Druid, your farm goes off the charts. What matters is her laning phase, and it is pretty bad. All heroes that you mentioned have something that makes their laning phase easier. AM and Void have blinks, Void even have backtrack, PA also have sort of blink, and can farm with the first spell from the distance, same as Lone Druid with his Bear. Weaver is almost impossible to catch(and he isn't in the pool as other heroes, he usually goes solo hard lane), and Drow and Sniper are high range heroes, where Drow also have Silence.
Out of all heroes you have mentioned, Sniper is the worst imo, and that is the reason you don't see him getting picked anymore. On the other hand, Spectre doesn't really have escaping mechanic, and at early levels, isn't too tanky with third skill. She is easily shutdown, and that is the reason why she isn't as good as other carry heroes. Of course, she is great when she is farmed.
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well today i random spec in a fairly high rated game, went 1/4/1/1 build and completely raped the other team. its funny how many people dont suspect you to do 150 damage per hit at lvl 7.
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go radiance if you have baby sitter in lane who knows what he's doing, else you'll feed trying to get it. i don't really like drums on spectre, if you can't rush radiance just get diffusal instead + a vitality booster which you can turn into a heart later on. drum's too expensive for what it gives to a hero like spectre, it costs half of your diffusal blade ffs. I'd only go for this if i'd be forced into a bracer very early on by difficult laning.
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On January 03 2013 15:17 aintz wrote:
well today i random spec in a fairly high rated game, went 1/4/1/1 build and completely raped the other team. its funny how many people dont suspect you to do 150 damage per hit at lvl 7.
Similar to maxing bash with FV early game, chrono their solo offlane, get 2 bash procs and the hero is dead 
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On January 03 2013 23:35 Kabras wrote:
go radiance if you have baby sitter in lane who knows what he's doing, else you'll feed trying to get it. i don't really like drums on spectre, if you can't rush radiance just get diffusal instead + a vitality booster which you can turn into a heart later on. drum's too expensive for what it gives to a hero like spectre, it costs half of your diffusal blade ffs. I'd only go for this if i'd be forced into a bracer very early on by difficult laning.
Drum too EXPENSIVE for what it gives? One of the most cost-effecient items in the game.
You might not like drum, but it is not expensive for what it gives.
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Hey not to take this off topic but what are people's thoughts of Skadi vs Heart on Spectre? I've always wanted to mess around with Skadi on her and having the debuff applied to every member of the opposing team for 7 seconds during Haunt seems very powerful in those lategame teamfights.
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heart gives you like 400 more hp and the passive is really nice
skadi doesn't work on illusions and diffusal is better
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EPT
